Keezer Collar - Sealing Wood That's Inside Keezer?

[Jiffster]

Is it important to ensure the wood that is exposed to the inside of the Keezer is sealed to protect the wood against moisture?

If so, what is the best sealer to use in this application?

 

[LBussy]

There's no sealer that will protect wood from constant moisture contact. You can extend the life of the wood for quite a long time by treating it right. I would:

• Insulate the inside with rigid foam insulation
• Ensure there is a complete vapor barrier - metallic duct tape would be good to seal seams
• Use a catalyzed finish such as polyurethane.

I *really* like Arm-R-Seal for a wood finish, this will be great if you use a nice wood and want to accentuate/showcase the grain. It's a wipe on oil/urethane (like use an old t-shirt) so very easy and forgiving to apply. It takes at least three coats, and they should dry 24 hours in between. That makes it sound not as great as the whiz-bang "one coat poly!" stuff, but those will show the slightest mistake.

If you share what wood you are using, and what stain/color you are looking to get out of it, I can help more. Here's a table made of white oak that I am working on with Arm-R-Seal on it:

 

[Jiffster]

The interior is just douglas fir that I want to install and protect. It will have red oak on the outside (3 sides) for looks.





The color I would like to achieve would be along the lines of Sedona Red from Minwax. Gives it just a hint of red.

 

[LBussy]

If you have room, I would still go with the hard foam insulation - make sure that from any point on the inside you would have to go through foam to get to wood. Then use the metal duct tape to complete the vapor barrier. Since this is built and assuming you can do that, I don't see a reason to otherwise seal the inside.

I still recommend the Arm-R-Seal on top of the stain you chose. It's ultra-forgiving and very protective.

Also, as with any question online if you wait long enough you will get all possible answers including the answer that says doing nothing is okay. I think you suspect this is not the case.

 

[Jiffster]

Good answers/info LBussy. I like the idea of not having to seal the inside if I insulate and tape it. (I actually have another thread going regarding insulation).

I can certainly do this.

Regarding the finish on the oak, is the Arm-R-Seal an all in one, stain and seal product?

What temp range can it be applied?

I'm in Michigan and its warming up but still cold at night. Not sure if I could do this in my basement.

 

[LBussy]

It does need to be at least 65 I believe.

It is not an all-in-one unfortunately. Those will be much less forgiving of brush marks and the like. In-between coats you can use a synthetic steel wool (maroon scotch-brite) or 440+ sandpaper ... VERY lightly. If you are virtuous and pure of heart you may also be able to get by with wadding up some kraft paper and giving the surface a good rub.

The all-in-ones are thicker and will show every mistake you make. They are faster but there's a price to pay.

 

[Jiffster]

I'm going to do a stain and top coat. What's your opinion of the Minwax stain?

 

[LBussy]

I'm going to do a stain and top coat. What's your opinion of the Minwax stain?

My only issue with it is is seems to come out of solution VERY easily ... so get them to shake it when you buy it (don't listen to them when they say you can't shake a stain) and then make sure to stir/shake well. Stir a couple times during your work if it lasts > an hour.

If you have a local Woodcraft store, go in there to talk to them about finishes. I find them a lot more helpful than the local big-box stores, the prices are comparable, and they have a lot more time for a customer than a paint store.

 

[mongoose33]

I'm going to do a Keezer here over the next few weeks. Once I have the collar done, I'll seal it with a couple coats of Poly. In fact, if I build it right, I should be able to disassemble it and seal each piece separately so there are no surfaces unsealed.

By itself, insulation won't seal the wood unless it's completely connected to the wood either by glue or possibly tape. I'll do that with the insulation because if there are exposed air gaps behind the insulation it will cut its effectiveness to some degree--and if the wood is not treated in some way, expose it to moisture.

The reason I do not want it exposed in any way to moisture is that the wood may expand or the collar may rack out of square if the wood absorbs moisture. Once I get it just how I need it to be, I want to lock it in at those dimensions.

 

[LBussy]

By itself, insulation won't seal the wood unless it's completely connected to the wood either by glue or possibly tape. I'll do that with the insulation because if there are exposed air gaps behind the insulation it will cut its effectiveness to some degree--and if the wood is not treated in some way, expose it to moisture.

Well, foam is a vapor barrier so using that plus tape at the gaps is a valid approach. Air gaps behind the foam (between it and the wood) is not a big deal unless the chilled air can get in there and then it's an issue.

 

[mongoose33]

Well, foam is a vapor barrier so using that plus tape at the gaps is a valid approach. Air gaps behind the foam (between it and the wood) is not a big deal unless the chilled air can get in there and then it's an issue.

Yes, of course--as long as there aren't exposed gaps, and if you tape the gaps you prevent exposed air gaps.

What comes to my mind is a house I looked at many years ago--it had foam insulation in the exterior walls before they figured out how to do that stuff right.

The foam had shrunk, leaving a "block" of foam between the studs that literally would rattle when one struck the exterior sheathing with the palm of one's hand. The gaps around the foam weren't helpful.

 

[Jiffster]

My only issue with it is is seems to come out of solution VERY easily ... so get them to shake it when you buy it (don't listen to them when they say you can't shake a stain) and then make sure to stir/shake well. Stir a couple times during your work if it lasts > an hour.



If you have a local Woodcraft store, go in there to talk to them about finishes. I find them a lot more helpful than the local big-box stores, the prices are comparable, and they have a lot more time for a customer than a paint store.

LBussy,
I picked up some "General Finishes" gel stain from Woodcraft and stained my oak piece today. It didn't come out as "perfect" as I would like (not due to the stain/ it was me). A few smears or streaks.

I tried to touch it up but it was making it worse as it was drying on me.

Would you advise letting it dry and doing another coat?

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[Jiffster]

Problem solved!

I spoke with a lady a Woodcraft and she said she wipes it dry, not just the extra like did. Makes a more even finish. So I reapplied the gel stain, it partially dissolved the existing stain and I wiped it dry.

I'm very happy now!

Tomorrow I'll apply the Arm-R Seal semi gloss.

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[CA_Mouse]

Take this how you will. I am in the middle of building mine right now. I am pre-treating, staining and sealing all my wood pieces before I assemble the collar. After putting it together, I will be putting Reflex Tape in the interior corners and mounting my angle brackets over it. Then solid care foam insulation over the interior wood with Reflex Tape on the corners and around any holes for the shanks and the gas-in line.

 

[LBussy]

Jiffster that's looking great! I think you will be very pleased - glad you have a local Woodcraft too! They are almost always great people. I was going to suggest the General gel stain but you seemed to have your heart set on the Minwax.

Be sure you stir and keep stirring that Arm-R-Seal! 24 hours between coats and at least three coats on there before you form an opinion. The first coat will go on very easy, the second and third will start to dry on you more and more as you put it on so be sure to work from an edge so you don't come back around to a dry edge. For red oak, it will take many coats to completely fill the grain smooth, I've never found that necessary however. Unless we're talking fine furniture and/or table-tops, a little grain character is pleasing to the eye.

Take a pic after the first coat while it is still wet - that will really let you get an idea how it will come out.

 

[Jiffster]

Thanks LBussy!
I was more set on the color of the Minwax until I saw General had a similar (even better) color.

Question for you.. It's ok to apply the Arm-R Seal to horizontal and vertical surfaces, correct?

The front of my piece will be horizontal while the sides will be vertical when I am applying it.

The guy at woodcraft told me it is self settling so just walk away and let it even out. I didn't think to ask about vertical surfaces though.

 

[LBussy]

Ya that will be fine. It goes on like an oil so you are not putting on enough to run.

 

[Jiffster]

Cool thanks. 3 coats huh? Darn, I was hoping for 2 so I could get it done this weekend. Lol

 

[LBussy]

Cool thanks. 3 coats huh? Darn, I was hoping for 2 so I could get it done this weekend. Lol

Tonight, tomorrow night, Sunday night.

 

[Jiffster]

Tonight, tomorrow night, Sunday night.

Yeah, I know. I was hoping to put the collar together and pour beer from the shiny new faucets though!!

 

[LBussy]

Take the day off, put a coat on, turn the heat up.

 

[LBussy]

Ooh ... one thing I want to share: If you have never worked with a drying oil finish before this is the stuff that will catch on fire spontaneously. Spread rags out in a single layer to dry - do not throw them in a trash can. You can hang them over the edge of a trash can though. Single layer is the key, no wadding.

 

[Jiffster]

Thanks! [emoji91][emoji91]

 

[Jiffster]

1st top coat done.

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[Yesfan]

That looks pretty good. I did my stir plate in Sedona Red. I just used gloss poly for the sealer though. Hoping to finish it tomorrow after work.

 

[LBussy]

Looking good Jiffster. Was it as easy as you had hoped? Did you grab some synthetic steel wool (purple scotchbrite) or really fine sandpaper for between coats?

I was out in the garage last night putting another coat on my table. Took all of 15 minutes maybe.

 

[Jiffster]

Looking good Jiffster. Was it as easy as you had hoped? Did you grab some synthetic steel wool (purple scotchbrite) or really fine sandpaper for between coats?

I was out in the garage last night putting another coat on my table. Took all of 15 minutes maybe.

Thank you Sir! It wasn't bad. I was a little surprised to see the stain come off a little. It dissolved it. Had to be careful not to take it off in a few spots.

I think I have some 0000 still wool. I know I have some very fine sandpaper. If not I'll pick some up though before I do my next coat.

Synthetic steel wool huh? Never heard of that. Is it better than real steel wool?

Side note: Brewing Biermuncher's Cream of Three Crops (Cream Ale) today. I'm 22 minutes into a 90 min mash right now.

 

[LBussy]

4-0 is fine, sandpaper is good too. If there is a real paint store near you or a GOOD big-box store, they will have some of the Scotch-brite stuff (what I am calling synthetic steel wool). I think purple is 4-0 equivalent. I like it better because it's not going to leave metal fibers in my finish or in my hands. It's not vital, but if you get out today and can get some I think you will enjoy using it more. It does have a top and a bottom side - be sure to use the side with the abrasive.

When it's dry you will feel "nibs" sticking up. Chances are it feels like sandpaper. It is probably dry enough now to feel it but wait till 24 hours is up before sanding. These nibs will be bits of wood fiber, dust, dog hair, fruit flies, whatever. You want to knock them down smooth before your next coat. Be VERY light-handed with your sanding, especially after this first coat. Take a few swipes then rub with your bare hand to check to see if you are done. Believe it or not you can also crumple up kraft paper (brown paper bag) and give it a vigorous rubbing to get much the same effect. I don't think it's as good but I have done it between coats in a pinch. Be conservative with the first sanding; you can always get what does not go away with the next coat's sanding. Each coat will finish smoother than the last.

And give yourself a pat on the back. You are not spending much more, you are not working much harder, but you will end up with a far superior finish than you would have if you got one of those "one coat finish in a can" products. This is what people who make furniture use and the methods they follow. If "polly razzamatazz" gets scratched sometime in the future, it's scratched. If you get a scratch you can put a little Arm-R-Seal on a rag and buff some more in refreshing the finish.

Have fun with your batch! I have an English IPA ready for the secondary.

 

[Jiffster]

Thanks!

I must admit I cheated and sanded with 400 and applied 2nd coat at 20 hours. Turned out good though. It wasn't tacky at all. I brought it in the house last night.

I watched a vid of a pro putting a bunch of coats on in 3 hour intervals so I figured 20 would be ok.

3rd coat will be after 24 though.

I appreciate the help. Seriously. You are the reason I used general finishes and it is turning out much better than my original plan.

A couple mistakes on my part but no big deal. It's for beer after all right?!

Adds character.

Brew turned out nice. My best session so far. I bought a grain mill and solved my efficiency issues. English IPA sounds great!

I'm at a local brewery right now having a few and some dinner.

Prost!

 

[dfwddr]

How about Marine Varnish?