Keep blowing temp controllers

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BullGator

BullGator

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I have a beverage cooler for fermentation temp control. I have wired up the stc-1000 dual stage temp controllers but I have literally blown 3 or 4 on them. They work fine on my 7cf chest freezer but as soon as I hook them up to the beverage cooler, it blows the relay. See the attached picture that shows the specs of the beverage cooler. It says 8.5 amps and the stc-1000 says up to 10 amps. That's why I'm not sure why they keep blowing. I also have a ranco single stage temp controller and it works fine on the beverage cooler. But it's single stage and I need dual stage. Can anyone help?

View attachment 1475326296855.jpg
 
Hi. There are plenty of folks on HBT who have more electrical savvy than I, so hopefully, they can chime in and give the correct info. If I were to guess, I'd say your beverage cooler is really pulling a heavy load on startup (peak.) The 8.5A listed on the data plate is probably based on continual operation. 8.5A at 110V is ~1000 Watts (the ITC-1000 is rated to 1200W @ 110VAC.) If the startup amperage of the beverage cooler spikes 20 or 25%, then you've pushed past the 1200W limit and would blow the relay. The Ranco might be rated higher, or possibly may just be more robust and can handle the momentary spike. Ed.
:mug:
 
I've been using a Brews By Smith STC-1000+ controller for over 2 years with a G&E 7 cubic foot chest freezer and never had any problems, but I don't remember what the ampere draw is on it.
 
I was thinking that was the problem but I don't know enough about circuits to figure it out. What confuses me is my ranco seems to also have similar specs:
 
ScrewyBrewer said:
I've been using a Brews By Smith STC-1000+ controller for over 2 years with a G&E 7 cubic foot chest freezer and never had any problems, but I don't remember what the ampere draw is on it.
Click to expand...

I can use the stc-1000 on my GE 7cf chest freezer as well with no issues. But when I connect it to my beverage cooler, it immediately blows the relay. The beverage cooler is the same as you see at convenience stores. Looks like this:

View attachment 1475331365381.jpg
 
ScrewyBrewer said:
I've been using a Brews By Smith STC-1000+ controller for over 2 years with a G&E 7 cubic foot chest freezer and never had any problems, but I don't remember what the ampere draw is on it.
Click to expand...
+1^^^. I have the same thing (and love it.) As you can see from the dataplate of my Haier, it has a startup of 12A, but continual run of only 1.7A, so I'm guessing it's the same with your beverage cooler.
Ed
:mug:

Haier1.jpg
 
BullGator said:
I can use the stc-1000 on my GE 7cf chest freezer as well with no issues. But when I connect it to my beverage cooler, it immediately blows the relay. The beverage cooler is the same as you see at convenience stores. Looks like this:
Click to expand...
Like I said earlier, maybe the Ranco just has bigger cojones and can handle the momentary spike better. Based on the dataplate you posted above, it's got way more than an STC1000. :)
 
Last edited:
Quick question for you...why a dual stage? I find that 95% of my fermentation concerns are cooling, and that when it drops down below the set temp, it will free rise back within a few minutes (without the need of a lamp or other heat source.) Would that be an option for you, or would it stay too cool for that? Ed
 
RedlegEd said:
Quick question for you...why a dual stage? I find that 95% of my fermentation concerns are cooling, and that when it drops down below the set temp, it will free rise back within a few minutes (without the need of a lamp or other heat source.) Would that be an option for you, or would it stay too cool for that? Ed
Click to expand...

I generally only need them during fall and spring. Like right now it gets into the 50s at night and 80s during the day.
 
RedlegEd said:
Like I said earlier, maybe the Ranco just has bigger cojones and can handle the momentary spike better. Based on the dataplate you posted above, it's got way more than an STC1000. :)
Click to expand...

I hear what you are saying and I agree. I just need to know if the new inkbird ITC-310t will work without blowing. From what I see between all the different controllers and the specs, I can't figure it out.
 
BullGator said:
I hear what you are saying and I agree. I just need to know if the new inkbird ITC-310t will work without blowing. From what I see between all the different controllers and the specs, I can't figure it out.
Click to expand...
Seems like it's worth an email to InkBird. I know they're sponsors, and they've always responded quickly to my emails. Send them the pic of your Beverage-Air dataplate and ask the question with respect to warranty replacement if it blows. Can't hurt, right? Ed
:mug:
 
Might consider having the controller trigger a big honkin' relay that actually does the compressor switching.
I use that method on my keezer just out of GPs...

Cheers!
 
day_trippr said:
Might consider having the controller trigger a big honkin' relay that actually does the compressor switching.
I use that method on my keezer just out of GPs...

Cheers!
Click to expand...

I've got a 120VAC triggered SSR on my STC for my refer to handle the inrush.
 
day_trippr said:
Might consider having the controller trigger a big honkin' relay that actually does the compressor switching.
I use that method on my keezer just out of GPs...

Cheers!
Click to expand...

Roger that. From an electrical standpoint, 8.5 amps is too close to the rated 10 amp switch. Especially for a compressor, which will have inrush current when the motor starts. If the OP has blown more than 1 controller, then this seems to be the case.

I wouldn't want less than 25 amp capacity for this.
 
Maylar said:
Roger that. From an electrical standpoint, 8.5 amps is too close to the rated 10 amp switch. Especially for a compressor, which will have inrush current when the motor starts. If the OP has blown more than 1 controller, then this seems to be the case.

I wouldn't want less than 25 amp capacity for this.
Click to expand...

Sounds like the problem. Just need to know how to get some sort of dual stage. Def going to email inkbird as was suggested.

I just checked my chest freezer and it says 5 amps. Makes sense why the itc-1000s control them just fine. But regarding the beverage cooler, still confused at why the ranco (it's actually a Johnson Controls A419 which I think is basically the same as the ranco) controls it without blowing. Maybe it has some extra 'stuff' inside to avoid blowing the relay.

Regardless, I'm going to have wort in the beverage cooler in a few hours so I'll have to go with the ranco until I here back from inkbird. Nothing like waiting until the last minute right? Thanks for all the help.
 
How old is the beverage-air cooler? If it's an older model or if it's not in peak shape the compressor could be drawing more current than what the sticker says.

If you are going to contact anyone I would contact beverage-air and ask what the peak startup current is.

Another thing to consider is the duration of the peak current at startup. Bigger commercial compressors can need a longer duration of peak current to start the compressor. 10 amps for 1 second will heat up the relay less than 10 amps for 5 seconds. The relay will blow once it gets to a certain temperature. The STC controllers do not provide any means to dissipate the heat from the relays. The Johnson controller may provide a means to dissipate the heat out of the relay. Not sure though as I've never taken one apart.
 
crane said:
How old is the beverage-air cooler? If it's an older model or if it's not in peak shape the compressor could be drawing more current than what the sticker says.

If you are going to contact anyone I would contact beverage-air and ask what the peak startup current is.

Another thing to consider is the duration of the peak current at startup. Bigger commercial compressors can need a longer duration of peak current to start the compressor. 10 amps for 1 second will heat up the relay less than 10 amps for 5 seconds. The relay will blow once it gets to a certain temperature. The STC controllers do not provide any means to dissipate the heat from the relays. The Johnson controller may provide a means to dissipate the heat out of the relay. Not sure though as I've never taken one apart.
Click to expand...

I'm not really sure but if I'd have to guess it's probably around 10 years old. I did buy one of those kilawatt meters and it was reading around 8.8A when the compressor kicked on. It then went down to 8.5A. That being said, it reads around once per second so I don't know the true peak I guess. But it got down to 8.5A in only 5 or 7 seconds.

Inkbird hasn't responded yet but I will take your suggestion and contact beverage-air.

Luckily, it hasn't gotten cold enough for me to worry about having to heat as well as cool, so I think I might have slipped by. Next brew probably won't be as lucky.
 
BullGator said:
Sounds good. Do you know where there is a write-up on how to do this?
Click to expand...

Right here :D

All you really need is an SPST relay with 30A Normally Open contacts and a 120VAC coil.
I'm showing a DPST version but only using one of the two contact sets.
If you really wanted to over-kill-kill-kill this, you could parallel the Common and NO contacts, basically doubling the current capacity.

Anyway, check this out. Any questions, just ask...

stc1000_w_cool_relay_sm.jpg

Cheers!

[edit] btw, I would not trust a Kill-O-Watt to do peak detection.
The odds that your 8.4A steady-state draw pulled only an 8.8A startup spike are virtually zero.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
day_trippr said:
btw, I would not trust a Kill-O-Watt to do peak detection.
The odds that your 8.4A steady-state draw pulled only an 8.8A startup spike are virtually zero.
Click to expand...

+1 even high quality multimeters can't do accurate peak measurements. The only way to truly see the peak is with a current clamp on an oscilloscope.

If the fridge is 10 years old the chances that it still operates within its listed specs are quite low. Contacting beverage-air will probably be fruitless. If you do contact them make sure you mention that it's 10 years old.

Your best bet is to follow day_tripper's advice and use an external relay to switch the compressor.
 
I called beverage air and he said the starting amps could be as high as 20 or 25A. So I think I'll be brushing up on the external relay suggestion!
 
look, It's simple. Wire up a RIB (Relay in a box) to the STC 1000 for whatever amperage you want. It's the startup that's probably killing the stc1000.

I put a 20 amp RIB off my stc1000 (well, the inkbird one since I wanted F) but I am nowhere near that. You are, use one. I only did it for the longevity of the stc1000 (amp draw is less than .5 amps on the STC, it's 5-6 amps on the RIB)

here is a http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/electrical/relays-sequencers/relays/enclosed-power-relay-rib2401b-20a-spdt-24vac-dc-120vac?infoParam.campaignId=T9F&gclid=CMags-OCx88CFZSIfgod040KyA Rib - this is the 120v 20 amp one
 
day_trippr said:
Right here :D

All you really need is an SPST relay with 30A Normally Open contacts and a 120VAC coil.
I'm showing a DPST version but only using one of the two contact sets.
If you really wanted to over-kill-kill-kill this, you could parallel the Common and NO contacts, basically doubling the current capacity.

Anyway, check this out. Any questions, just ask...

View attachment 372527

Cheers!

[edit] btw, I would not trust a Kill-O-Watt to do peak detection.
The odds that your 8.4A steady-state draw pulled only an 8.8A startup spike are virtually zero.
Click to expand...

Sorry but I never got around to fixing my temp controller issue mainly due to life getting in the way.

I went ahead and ordered that DPST you linked to. It should come tomorrow. Can you help with the following questions:

1 - do I need a heat sink for that DPST?
2 - I read in another post that a fuse is not needed. But I have heard people have put them in. Do you think it is needed? If so, what kind and where should it go?
3 - Not sure I need to overkill as you mentioned but if I were to do that, do I just run a wire from one NO contact to the other NO contact? Same with the Common contacts (C1, C2)?
4 - I have done a good amount of house wiring but I'm fairly inexperienced reading wiring diagrams. I see how the cool side goes through the DPST but it looks like the hot doesn't. In my case, my beverage cooler is the one that drawings the high current, so I think this will work. But am I looking at this correctly?

I really appreciate all of your time and help.

Cheers!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
- No heat sink needed
- Fuse isn't needed imo
- Correct.
- Yes, we're only working on the Cold circuit with all of this, because that's the load with the big "thump".

Cheers!
 

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