Julius BIAB Clone

[Estrada]

I'm looking to do a clone of Julius by Tree House. Folks seem to like the below recipe, so I wanted to give it a shot. My two questions are:

- How would the recipe change if I wanted to do BIAB?
- How would I adjust the recipe to do 2.5 gal?

I've been sleuthing through the interweb and am getting a bit confused as to how to actually do those. Any help is appreciated.

https://www.homebrewhedonist.com/tree-house-ipa-recipe/

OG: 1.065
FG: 1.014
IBUs: 75
ABV: 6.7%
Colour: 7 SRM (“Glowing Orange”)
Batch Size: 20 L (5.5 gal)

5.33 Kg (11.75 lbs) 2-Row Malt
170 g (6 oz) Caramel 60 Malt
114 g (4 oz) Honey Malt

4 ml HopShot hops extract (or sub for a suitable high AA hop) @ 60 mins
28 g (1 oz) Amarillo @ 20 mins
28 g (1 oz) Centennial @ 20 mins
35 g (1.5 oz) Simcoe @ Flame-out
28 g (1 oz) Amarillo @ Flame-out
28 g (1 oz) Centennial @ Flame-out

Dry Hop
28g (1 oz) Amarillo, dry hop 4 – 6 days
28g (1 oz) Centennial, dry hop 4 – 6 days
28g (1 oz) Simcoe, dry hop 4 – 6 days

 

[petrolSpice]

Nothing really changes with BIAB over AG. The process is different, and adjusting the recipe for a different (probably lower) mash efficiency.

To get from 5.5 gal to 2.5 gal just multiply everything by 45%.

 

[h22lude]

You just need to adjust it based on your system. Hopefully you have had a few batches and took notes to get your efficiency. If you have your brewhosue efficiency and use BeerSmith, it will convert the grains for you depending on if your efficiency is higher or lower. Besides efficiency, you wouldn't change anything for BIAB. If you use a 3 vessel system and get 78% efficiency and someone else uses BIAB with 78% efficiency, the recipe won't change.

Just as petrolSpice said, you just need to adjust all the grains and hops. Boil volume does affect hop utilization. BeerSmith also calculates this based on the volume of the recipe and the volume you want. It won't change your hop additions much though.

 

[Oldskewl]

Once I started milling my own grains, my efficiency is in the 75% range. I do squeeze the bag some. Nothing should change, just adjust the grains and hops in half and you should be good. Make sure you are using a calculator to figure your water volume and strike temp.

 

[makisupapolice14]

How did this turn out ?

 

[JoeMamasIPA]

I just brewed 2.5 gallons of this and it is rocking my balls off! Exactly like Julius although I didn't follow the recipe above strictly. Went 150/150 sulfate/chloride and used 1mL of lactic acid for the mash/sparge water. Also, I keg hopped this with .8oz Amarillo and .4oz Simcoe (accidently screwed up the ratio) as I have heard Centennial in dryhop doesn't taste good; although I used the hop schedule above in the 1st dry hop 64 hours into fermentation. I have drank 8 cans of Julius and another 6 cans of Alter Ego in the past couple months and this is it. If I can repeat this one I may never leave my house again.

 

[bbohanon]

it is rocking my balls off!

I am so using this phrase going forward for my best batches.
Love it!

 

[Brewmance]

I noticed this recipe doesn't have any "flaked" ingredients which appears to be a trend in New England pale ales. I'm not incredibly familiar with them or Honey Malt. Any insight into this?

 

[JoeMamasIPA]

The flaked stuff is for enhancing body/mouthfeel and suspension of proteins in the beer. Just stick with the recipe, adjust your water correctly, and don't let one molecule of oxygen touch the beer at any point and you will be happy with the end result.

 

[mdstrobe]

@JoeMamasIPA. It's phrases like "don't let one molecule of oxygen touch the beer" that makes me nervous. There's gotta me at least one molecule when racking to secondary. Or even taking the airlock off for a second to sample gravity. Right??

 

[Oldskewl]

I want to try a closed vessel transfer, but I have racked several IPAs into an open keg and they tasted perfectly fine for 2+ months. I wouldn't get all OCD about it.

 

[RM-MN]

@JoeMamasIPA. It's phrases like "don't let one molecule of oxygen touch the beer" that makes me nervous. There's gotta me at least one molecule when racking to secondary. Or even taking the airlock off for a second to sample gravity. Right??

Raking to secondary isn't needed so just skip that and avoid the exposure to oxygen that that incurs. You can't avoid all exposure to oxygen so just try to minimize it. Tiny amount aren't going to ruin your beer, large amounts will.

 

[JoeMamasIPA]

The commercial brewers of this IPA type are completely anal about oxygen getting to the beer. Hill Farmstead, Alchemist, Tree House, Trillium all use spunding and generally don't allow any oxygen exposure. I know that my versions of this style improved DRAMATICALLY when I stopped taking samples, stopped racking to secondary, and forced transfer to a CO2 purged keg (with CO2 purged hops in it) from a carboy. The beer only briefly sees oxygen when I dryhop on day 3 in which that oxygen is scrubbed by ongoing fermentation. The heavy hops in these beers get oxidized very easily and the beer starts to turn darker while coming up with astringent, metallic off flavors. By day 7 the beer borderlines on undrinkable the oxidation affects it so quickly. Also, for whatever reason I find adding half of the sulfate at kegging was really helpful.

 

[stickyfinger]

I just brewed 2.5 gallons of this and it is rocking my balls off! Exactly like Julius although I didn't follow the recipe above strictly. Went 150/150 sulfate/chloride and used 1mL of lactic acid for the mash/sparge water. Also, I keg hopped this with .8oz Amarillo and .4oz Simcoe (accidently screwed up the ratio) as I have heard Centennial in dryhop doesn't taste good; although I used the hop schedule above in the 1st dry hop 64 hours into fermentation. I have drank 8 cans of Julius and another 6 cans of Alter Ego in the past couple months and this is it. If I can repeat this one I may never leave my house again.

What happens to Centennial in dryhop? I just did a Centennial dryhop in an IPA. It tastes good when kegging, but now that it is carb'd it is pretty bitter and has an odd malt character, kind of a dry burnt character. Odd

 

[JoeMamasIPA]

What happens to Centennial in dryhop? I just did a Centennial dryhop in an IPA. It tastes good when kegging, but now that it is carb'd it is pretty bitter and has an odd malt character, kind of a dry burnt character. Odd

Yeah, that was my impression as well, that is why I deleted it from my 2nd dryhop. Centennial, Columbus, Apollo can easily get away from you in a dry hop and they need enough tropical hop character to offset them.

 

[Brewmance]

The commercial brewers of this IPA type are completely anal about oxygen getting to the beer. Hill Farmstead, Alchemist, Tree House, Trillium all use spunding and generally don't allow any oxygen exposure. I know that my versions of this style improved DRAMATICALLY when I stopped taking samples, stopped racking to secondary, and forced transfer to a CO2 purged keg (with CO2 purged hops in it) from a carboy. The beer only briefly sees oxygen when I dryhop on day 3 in which that oxygen is scrubbed by ongoing fermentation. The heavy hops in these beers get oxidized very easily and the beer starts to turn darker while coming up with astringent, metallic off flavors. By day 7 the beer borderlines on undrinkable the oxidation affects it so quickly. Also, for whatever reason I find adding half of the sulfate at kegging was really helpful.

What about oxygenating the wort? (though I understand the dry hopping may introduce the problem)

I have soda kegs i could ferment in, I'm not sure how I would turn that into a closed system though. How about brew bucket to soda keg? how can I minimize oxygen there?

 

[jjeffers09]

I wonder what CO2 is then...

 

[stickyfinger]

Yeah, that was my impression as well, that is why I deleted it from my 2nd dryhop. Centennial, Columbus, Apollo can easily get away from you in a dry hop and they need enough tropical hop character to offset them.

Completely agree there, brother. Apollo destroyed an IPA for me. Did 4 ounces in 2 gallons in the keg and it was super dank-parmesan character that i didn't like. use judiciously! i also over-did columbus on one, and it was very grassy and bitter (in the keg too.) the centennial results i have already relayed.

i am starting to think that certain hops can be used in huge excess in primary or in the keg with little repercussions, some can be used in huge excess in primary but not in the keg and some can't be used in excess in either without weird flavors. lots to explore here.

I have really loved the citra,mosaic,galaxy in equal parts that Brulosopher uses often. citra,mosaic is very good but less dank than the previous. citra alone can be really good and has a very light dank with tons of citrus, but it can seem a little one-dimensional after having 1 pint of it (some tongue fatigue i guess for me.)

i want to do another 12 gallon batch of NE IPA with half hopped with citra:mosaic:galaxy and the other half I think I will go back to an old hopbill that worked well for me citra:simcoe:columbus. still deciding on the maltbill. thinking of doing 2-row or pale ale malt with maybe 10% crystal 20L and 5-10% munich.

 

[stickyfinger]

What about oxygenating the wort? (though I understand the dry hopping may introduce the problem)

I have soda kegs i could ferment in, I'm not sure how I would turn that into a closed system though. How about brew bucket to soda keg? how can I minimize oxygen there?

I think you will be very pleased with just fermenting as usual, dry hopping with 2 oz/gallon in primary and then racking to a purged keg with a racking cane. I don't think farting around with closed transfer from a carboy/bucket warrants the extra risk, anguish. if it's easy for you, then try it, but just go with a purged keg, and the results should be stupendous!

 

[JoeMamasIPA]

Here is the closed transfer method that costs all of about $12 and is really easy:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=516823

Give it a shot, you won't be disappointed.

 

[Brewmance]

You guys are awesome.

If I don't do a closed system will this beer still be pleasant? I get the risk of the reaction with oxygen, and yes, my racking cane sometimes can be a jerk and i see a trail of air bubbles.

I have like 5 buckets but no carboy's guess now is the time to jump into one. Or use a keg, my only concern with a corny keg is the enough headroom for Krausen.

 

[stickyfinger]

You guys are awesome.

If I don't do a closed system will this beer still be pleasant? I get the risk of the reaction with oxygen, and yes, my racking cane sometimes can be a jerk and i see a trail of air bubbles.

I have like 5 buckets but no carboy's guess now is the time to jump into one. Or use a keg, my only concern with a corny keg is the enough headroom for Krausen.

Trust me, if you use a quality racking cane and tubing with no air bubbles, and rack into a purged keg, you will have an amazing beer. I do it all of the time.

 

[TexasWine]

Or use a keg, my only concern with a corny keg is the enough headroom for Krausen.

If you use an adjustable relief valve like the one linked below, you should be able to put 4 gallons or so in a 5 gallon keg. The higher than atmospheric pressure keeps the krausen low.

I use two kegs to ferment anything from a 6 gallon to 9 gallon (lager) batch. You can then do a closed transfer to a clean keg with no hassle.

http://www.homebrewing.org/Adjustab...tfcLnvcIqGuPOdEFUoZvhddx-YwK3HClfbhoCXzzw_wcB

 

[ebrooker007]

What would you all sub for the hop shot?

 

[Brewmance]

I used about .6 oz of Summit as my LHBS didnt have any of my first choices. Using an IBU calculator it put me at about 35IBU's from that addition. The Hopshot was lending about 40 IBU's. (i think)

 

[JoeMamasIPA]

40 IBU of Columbus

 

[Brewmance]

So my brewday went rather well this time around. Nailed my mash temp and figured out what I did wrong.

However, I maintained a boil, but not as aggressive of one as I would have liked. My SG was 1.057. a little shy of 1.065.

So my alcohol content will be a little lower, perhaps a watery? what should I expect?

 

[JoeMamasIPA]

You will be fine, I actually like this style a little less boozy than most brew it. Just make sure the yeast finishes up by raising temp (72) before ferment is completely done.

 

[stickyfinger]

@JoeMamasIPA. It's phrases like "don't let one molecule of oxygen touch the beer" that makes me nervous. There's gotta me at least one molecule when racking to secondary. Or even taking the airlock off for a second to sample gravity. Right??

yes, don't rack to secondary OR take the airlock off for a gravity sample, for example...

 

[Brewmance]

So I just Kegged after cold crashing. Purged the keg minimized oxygen. I did have a screwup where my siphon hose had a hook up, so i made a small fountain which was quickly covered in beer. Next time i will be more mindful (new hose).

I pulled a flat taste off.

Wow, tasted like bitter hell. Almost a chemical bitter. Sure, my glass had hop flakes and other debris floating around it it, being the first pull from the keg. but no hop aroma, just bitter.

This could be my palate not being ready for beer and not a great pull. Also, no bubble dispersing hoppy goodness. But what gives?

The only places I went off on the recipe were:
- Didnt use a hopshot, instead about 40IBU's worth of summit (per calculator)
- Poor efficiency 1.055 instead of 1.065
- London III yeast
- chilled while whirlpooling @0 instead of a whirlpool followed by chilling.

Hoping some carbonation will help it, but wow. bitter.

 

[stickyfinger]

So I just Kegged after cold crashing. Purged the keg minimized oxygen. I did have a screwup where my siphon hose had a hook up, so i made a small fountain which was quickly covered in beer. Next time i will be more mindful (new hose).

I pulled a flat taste off.

Wow, tasted like bitter hell. Almost a chemical bitter. Sure, my glass had hop flakes and other debris floating around it it, being the first pull from the keg. but no hop aroma, just bitter.

This could be my palate not being ready for beer and not a great pull. Also, no bubble dispersing hoppy goodness. But what gives?

The only places I went off on the recipe were:
- Didnt use a hopshot, instead about 40IBU's worth of summit (per calculator)
- Poor efficiency 1.055 instead of 1.065
- London III yeast
- chilled while whirlpooling @0 instead of a whirlpool followed by chilling.

Hoping some carbonation will help it, but wow. bitter.

I have started bittering to around 20 IBU calculated with Rager for all of my IPAs. Dry hopping can add a ton of bitterness depending on the hop varietal. It will mellow some with a little age though. Also, if it is really cold, you won't get as much hop character.

 

[Brewmance]

just took a sip of a diff citra IPA. then mine. The bitterness gets picked up like toward the middle or back of your mouth and slowly sneaks up. The smell I'm getting is sweet. Candy almost. Thoughts? is it just time? Did I overdue my IBU's?

 

[Brewmance]

I have started bittering to around 20 IBU calculated with Rager for all of my IPAs. Dry hopping can add a ton of bitterness depending on the hop varietal. It will mellow some with a little age though. Also, if it is really cold, you won't get as much hop character.

Thanks for the reply, yea it is really cold because i just cold crashed. I just turned my keezer up to like 48 to see if that helps. appreciate the feedback.

 

[stickyfinger]

Thanks for the reply, yea it is really cold because i just cold crashed. I just turned my keezer up to like 48 to see if that helps. appreciate the feedback.

I'd try dropping off the kettle IBUs to much lower or none. If you ferment out the beer, there is really no need for a lot of bittering if you ask me. Some macho-types need the IBUs and bitterness to feel like real men, but if you are firm in your sexuality and self-confident you can drink non-bitter IPAs with tons of hop flavor and still not have shriveling-balls syndrome...

 

[Brewmance]

I'd try dropping off the kettle IBUs to much lower or none. If you ferment out the beer, there is really no need for a lot of bittering if you ask me. Some macho-types need the IBUs and bitterness to feel like real men, but if you are firm in your sexuality and self-confident you can drink non-bitter IPAs with tons of hop flavor and still not have shriveling-balls syndrome...

HAHAHAHAHA. I can do that easily. I actually prefer the hop flavor and aroma to the bitterness any day. thanks for the advice. Will do.

Funny you say that, this beard club that used to come into the brewery I worked in for open houses (basically all you can drink for $10) would insist on drinking our most aggressive IPA's and would make a stink about it when they weren't on tap. I remember grabbing the "alpha" a beer and saying "conncubine?"(our 80IBU 9% double IPA) and him saying, well I'm certainly not going to the watermelon ale.

Shortly after I ended up asking to be taken off the schedule because I hooked up with the owner's assistant...numerous times and it was getting weird(different story).

 

[stickyfinger]

HAHAHAHAHA. I can do that easily. I actually prefer the hop flavor and aroma to the bitterness any day. thanks for the advice. Will do.

Funny you say that, this beard club that used to come into the brewery I worked in for open houses (basically all you can drink for $10) would insist on drinking our most aggressive IPA's and would make a stink about it when they weren't on tap. I remember grabbing the "alpha" a beer and saying "conncubine?"(our 80IBU 9% double IPA) and him saying, well I'm certainly not going to the watermelon ale.

Shortly after I ended up asking to be taken off the schedule because I hooked up with the owner's assistant...numerous times and it was getting weird(different story).

ha ha living up to your moniker, Brewmance...


that's the other thing that gets annoying. Oh, it has to be a triple IPA, 12% ABV before it's worth drinking. Idiots.

 

[Brewmance]

So had a nother taste this A.M. Not as bad, but still a bitterness that haunts you. I am thinking this could be caused by using too much gypsum and calcium chloride.

 

[stickyfinger]

So had a nother taste this A.M. Not as bad, but still a bitterness that haunts you. I am thinking this could be caused by using too much gypsum and calcium chloride.

To me, gypsum gives more of a drying effect, similar to when you have a more tannins. Some say they think it increases bitterness too. I think you're going to have to just hope that it moderates a little as it ages and make modifications next time.

 

[h22lude]

To me, gypsum gives more of a drying effect, similar to when you have a more tannins. Some say they think it increases bitterness too. I think you're going to have to just hope that it moderates a little as it ages and make modifications next time.

Gypsum doesn't increase bitterness. Like you said, it dries it out which increases the perceived bitterness. IBUs will stay the same. Just seems more bitter. Thus is why I use very little gypsum and more chloride in NEIPAs.

 

[JoeMamasIPA]

So had a nother taste this A.M. Not as bad, but still a bitterness that haunts you. I am thinking this could be caused by using too much gypsum and calcium chloride.

Did you use Centennial in your final dryhop because it sounds like it. The waiting game should not need to be played with this recipe, 4 days post kegging should be enough to get the right taste.