Jones'ing for a stainless fermenter - maybe Delta

[wickedbeernut]

You don't see many 1.5" tri-clamp dump ports any more. The Brewtools F-series is 2" tri-clamp. The BrewBuilt X3-series is 3" tri-clamp.

The body of the fermenter features three 1.5" tri-clamp ports: one for the thermowell, one for the racking arm and ball valve, and a drain port for cleaning or harvesting yeast.

I thought we were discussing whether a 1.5" tri-clamp bottom-most "dump" port was adequate or whether the dump port should be 2" or 3" tri-clamp. I was simply pointing out the current generation of conical unitanks has moved away from a 1.5" tri-clamp dump port.

The current generation of conical unitanks has at least a dozen lid and body / cone ports including an 8" tri-clamp main port on the welded lid (no full-lid band clamp) and a 2" tri-clamp cone port to accept a low-watt density immersion heating element (no conical heating pad). Of course, the unitanks are jacketed (no cooling coil). Brewtools will ship a fully-jacketed (cylinder and cone) conical unitank later this year which is also fully-insulated (no neoprene jacket). I expect BrewBuilt to follow suit.

 

[shoengine]

I thought we were discussing whether a 1.5" tri-clamp bottom-most "dump" port was adequate or whether the dump port should be 2" or 3" tri-clamp. I was simply pointing out the current generation of conical unitanks has moved away from a 1.5" tri-clamp dump port.

No, we're discussing stainless fermentor options in Alaska.

 

[Hunky]

So aside from not having residual aroma, what are your actual goals with the fermenters? Pressure Fermentation, Yeast collection, Yeast and Hop Dump? What do you have to supply cooling? I think narrowing down the things that are important for you will help make a suggestion,

Of course I should be delineating my goals, at least in my head. One is the desire to move away from plastic as a concept. Not that it will help on the intake of microplastics as they are everywhere and ubiquitous, but it is in my head.

Ease of cleaning certainly. For something in the shape of either a bucket or a conical, it would be nice to have a bottom drain so I didn't have to carry the thing up the stairs and outside, or try to hit my little sink while dumping. I suppose a 1.5" drain would suit that since during cleaning I could use my spray hose to break up the trub before opening the valve. For that matter, a 3/4" on some of the buckets would work for that. But.. I could still dump in my sink with a bucket or whatever if careful. The sink drain uses a submerged pump to get the water/gunk up to the house drain level.

As for yeast collection.. I've done that a few times. Not a big deal for me, but I haven't really grown much as a brewer. Hoping to do more. Mostly I've done a couple IPA's, lots of stouts and porters, and brown ales. The US-05 and 04 have been go-to's.. not much experimenting yet. I've just moved from 3 kettle to BIAB, and have only gone through 4 brews on that so far.

Cooling: presently it is 42 degrees outside now and I brew in a basement that is usually that temp. So for fermentation I've only had to heat. I have a terrarium heating pad setup with temp control. Cooling so far has only been for cold crashing.. I take the serving kegs out of my chest freezer kegerator, put in the fermenter, and drop the temp in the freezer. Kind of a big lift for an old guy, so was thinking of rigging up a cooling line from that freezer to maybe coils inside the fermenter.. though for cold crashing I've heard various success/nonsuccess stories.

/jd

 

[sibelman]

Given your goals and location (i.e., shipping challenge), the Delta Fermtank TC seems like a fine fit at a good price. I share your preference to reduce plastic parts.

btw, you may find dumping trub into your smallish sink to be fairly straightforward. (That said, I'm glad of my 24x24 sink, which simplifies cleaning large vessels.)

 

[wickedbeernut]

No, we're discussing stainless fermentor options in Alaska.

@sibelman pointed out that the 1.5" tri-clamp dump port on the FermTank is small and proposed a Spike conical unitank with its 2" tri-clamp dump port as an alternative. Spike ships to Alaska upon special request. The "Temperature Control Bundle" (cooling coil, neoprene jacket, pump, rebranded Inkbird controller, ...) is sold separate making the conical unitank more affordable if you're not after heating / cooling control.

 

[Broken Crow]

Dunno if this may help; I'm a big fan of sankes as fermenters, but I'm also a big fan of Fermonsters. As to the 'Plastic thing'; since there was a mini-scandal over badly formulated PET water bottles back in the 90's, pretty much every regulatory agency on earth turned the spotlight on it and you won't get any contamination from modern economic marvels like fermonsters or fermzillas.
If you're gonna consider a broad range of vessels and function suitably outwieghs Bling; the poly top/bottom sankes with the straight sides are nice and lightwieght and you can buy a ready-made top;
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/sankeball.htm
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/tc2gksingle.htm
Or; You can make a nifty 'Fermhead' that can attach to just about anything;

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/thread...-fit-it-to-fermonster-sankey-whatever.704064/
The popular Flotitt fits in the neck of a sanke and if you don't wanna get a small CIP ball and pump for cleaning, you can just make a wand with a piece of copper tubing to shove up it and wash it out...no extra fittings on the keg required.
You can even look at milk cans and put one of those on it. (a milk can can hold about 3psi, so OK for O2-free transfers, but SOL on pressure fermenting)
Dunno if you've considered cross-border shopping, but a bit south of you, Goldsteam Brewing is sadly going out of business and you could contact him and maybe get a good deal on some of the remaining stock, such as this 7G Anvil:
https://goldsteam.com/shop/fermenti...d-conical-fermenters/7-gallon-anvil-crucible/
Just trying offer food for thought.

 

[Hunky]

I was in a similar situation not that long ago. Conicals are way more than what I need, and frankly, too expensive. That's before getting into the temp control conversation, which is another animal ($$) with that type of vessel. I considered the Delta Pro for quite a bit of time, but ultimately decided against it. It's too big to fit comfortably in a 5.0 cu ft cooler (I live in TX, so... necessary). It really doesn't hold meaningful pressure at 6 psi max. Also, I'm unlikely going to be harvesting yeast (at least in the near future). Looks nice, but it has design and utility compromises (IMO).

Finally, I opted for the regular 8 gal Fermtank w/ the upgraded TC lid. I saved a good chunk of money and it ticked a lot of the boxes on what I was looking for. The bottom port is no good for trub dumping or yeast harvesting, but makes cleaning a breeze and with much less effort of having to tilt and dump (like regular bucket styles). The TC lid upgrade was the deciding factor for me. The 1.5" top TC port is enough for a hop bung. Delta sells one - I got it, but you have options. The lid also comes with three pre-drilled holes which are wonderful. I set it up with a gas and liquid post (w/ flat silicone gaskets), the third hole for airlock (my choice) or blow-off (included). At 2 psi I can collect samples and transfer oxygen-free with a floating dip tube connected to the liquid post - one of my biggest goals. A 000 bung/plug takes care of covering the airlock hole when applying CO2 pressure. It also has an integrated thermowell, which is perfect for the Inkbird - another box ticked.

All in all, I'm very happy with my choice. Perhaps an option for you to consider and save some coin.

Thanks much for the Jose. Very good points. I'll have to decide on yeast harvesting I guess. Buying yeast for each brew hasn't been a big expense comparatively, though I do have to ship yeast here so there would be advantages to reuse. I've read that the Delta cooling coils are a bit small for cold crashing.. but with the saved coin, I could maybe find a used upright freezer around here. People are quick to throw things away if not perfect when all they need is a bit of tinkering.

 

[Hunky]

Dunno if this may help; I'm a big fan of sankes as fermenters, but I'm also a big fan of Fermonsters. As to the 'Plastic thing'; since there was a mini-scandal over badly formulated PET water bottles back in the 90's, pretty much every regulatory agency on earth turned the spotlight on it and you won't get any contamination from modern economic marvels like fermonsters or fermzillas.
If you're gonna consider a broad range of vessels and function suitably outwieghs Bling; the poly top/bottom sankes with the straight sides are nice and lightwieght and you can buy a ready-made top;
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/sankeball.htm
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/tc2gksingle.htm
Or; You can make a nifty 'Fermhead' that can attach to just about anything;

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/thread...-fit-it-to-fermonster-sankey-whatever.704064/
The popular Flotitt fits in the neck of a sanke and if you don't wanna get a small CIP ball and pump for cleaning, you can just make a wand with a piece of copper tubing to shove up it and wash it out...no extra fittings on the keg required.
You can even look at milk cans and put one of those on it. (a milk can can hold about 3psi, so OK for O2-free transfers, but SOL on pressure fermenting)
Dunno if you've considered cross-border shopping, but a bit south of you, Goldsteam Brewing is sadly going out of business and you could contact him and maybe get a good deal on some of the remaining stock, such as this 7G Anvil:
https://goldsteam.com/shop/fermenti...d-conical-fermenters/7-gallon-anvil-crucible/
Just trying offer food for thought.

Thank you! Sheesh.. options. it isn't getting any more easy to decide. I need to do some self reflection. Part of me wants something like a Brewbuilt Uni - in fact Bobby at brewhardware is looking at refining his shipping cost for me, but also recommended a Fermzilla All Rounder. I know people like those.

So I suppose my issue is that I could afford something like a Uni - in fact my wife and I bought recently a $700 plus flour grinder as I bake sourdough bread for us. So I could probably justify spending.. the hard part is justifying the need. Perhaps it is just more than I would need, and feels a bit over the top for what I do.

As for sanke kegs, if I were to find a 1/4 barrel one as jdubdvdt uses for 5 gallon batches.. maybe that. Thinking on just a bucket like Jose uses above. Thinking on maybe a 10 gallon big mouth corny type keg or the 6.5 gallon corny with altered lid. You reminded me of milk cans.. none local so finding one might be similar to the other things.

As for Goldstream.. dang about going out of business. I would be happy to order from Canada.. bought some sail boat parts from Ontario a few years back and B.C. is right next door. I did put something in my shopping cart from them a couple days ago to test.. some fermenter I forget which, and it had the "does not ship to your address". But maybe if I contacted them, they could arrange some kind of shipping (which might be true of the others.) I put a Uni in the Morebeer cart for $649 and with shipping and sales tax (we're at 5% here), the total comes to something like $868. Doable I suppose, but do I need it?

Oi! Thanks for the "food".

​

 

[Hunky]

The current generation of conical unitanks has at least a dozen lid and body / cone ports including an 8" tri-clamp main port on the welded lid (no full-lid band clamp) and a 2" tri-clamp cone port to accept a low-watt density immersion heating element (no conical heating pad). Of course, the unitanks are jacketed (no cooling coil). Brewtools will ship a fully-jacketed (cylinder and cone) conical unitank later this year which is also fully-insulated (no neoprene jacket). I expect BrewBuilt to follow suit.

I'll keep an eye out for these updates. Thanks for the info.

 

[Hoppy2bmerry]

I have a small SS from Delta and a small Anvil SS bucket. I would not buy another Anvil bucket, and I’m happy with the Delta. Okay there’s my 2 cents. I’ve read that a long soak in Starsan would get aromas out of plastic. I’ve never noticed a plastic fermenter transferring aroma to the next beer.

 

[wickedbeernut]

I'll keep an eye out for these updates. Thanks for the info.

I made my first conical unitank 30 years ago out of a 10-gallon corny keg ($45). I removed the bottom of the keg and welded a 60º cone in its place. At the time, this was more out of necessity. Today we have more options when it comes to "homebrewing" conical unitanks than I can count.

 

[shoengine]

Edit: not my thread

 

[Whisky River]

So I suppose my issue is that I could afford something like a Uni - in fact my wife and I bought recently a $700 plus flour grinder as I bake sourdough bread for us. So I could probably justify spending.. the hard part is justifying the need. Perhaps it is just more than I would need, and feels a bit over the top for what I do.

As for Goldstream.. dang about going out of business. I would be happy to order from Canada.. bought some sail boat parts from Ontario a few years back and B.C. is right next door. I did put something in my shopping cart from them a couple days ago to test.. some fermenter I forget which, and it had the "does not ship to your address". But maybe if I contacted them, they could arrange some kind of shipping (which might be true of the others.) I put a Uni in the Morebeer cart for $649 and with shipping and sales tax (we're at 5% here), the total comes to something like $868. Doable I suppose, but do I need it?

Oi! Thanks for the "food".

​

This might not be exactly what you’re looking for but if there isn’t a hard ceiling on price and shopping from BC is possible you might check out the sale from Brewha. They have their older style 10 gallon batch size 3-1 jacketed fermenters on sale for less than $800 and they have always been extremely reasonable about shipping, just email them and the founder Nathan will probably respond personally with a quote. I can also say it’s a very well made fermenter and if you decide later to use it as an all in one vessel you can mash and boil in it as well.

Some people here can find a reason to hate anything and find theoretical faults with any option so I would suggest thinking about what really matters to you in the way you will actually use the thing. For instance I have a 30psi unitank but I don’t pressure ferment so what’s the point? If a fermenter is only rated for pressure transfer that’s not a negative to me, but that might be different for you. Similarly the 1.5” bottom drain complaints don’t resonate with me because I’ve never had a problem with them and commercial fermenters up to 50bbl have been made with 1.5” valves for decades so I’m not convinced thats a significant problem. Sometimes the negatives that people mention have an extremely simple work around, or maybe that solution wouldn’t work for your situation.
I do think you’re right to be thinking about cleaning, especially for a conical because some of them can weigh almost 200lbs. Not a big deal if you have a floor drain but maybe a deal breaker if you don’t. I guess my point is, lots of good suggestions here and the more you narrow down how you will actually use it, the easier it is to cut through the noise and disregard the things that don’t really matter to you to find the solution that you’ll actually enjoy using.

 

[Hunky]

This might not be exactly what you’re looking for but if there isn’t a hard ceiling on price and shopping from BC is possible you might check out the sale from Brewha. They have their older style 10 gallon batch size 3-1 jacketed fermenters on sale for less than $800 and they have always been extremely reasonable about shipping, just email them and the founder Nathan will probably respond personally with a quote. I can also say it’s a very well made fermenter and if you decide later to use it as an all in one vessel you can mash and boil in it as well.

Some people here can find a reason to hate anything and find theoretical faults with any option so I would suggest thinking about what really matters to you in the way you will actually use the thing. For instance I have a 30psi unitank but I don’t pressure ferment so what’s the point? If a fermenter is only rated for pressure transfer that’s not a negative to me, but that might be different for you. Similarly the 1.5” bottom drain complaints don’t resonate with me because I’ve never had a problem with them and commercial fermenters up to 50bbl have been made with 1.5” valves for decades so I’m not convinced thats a significant problem. Sometimes the negatives that people mention have an extremely simple work around, or maybe that solution wouldn’t work for your situation.
I do think you’re right to be thinking about cleaning, especially for a conical because some of them can weigh almost 200lbs. Not a big deal if you have a floor drain but maybe a deal breaker if you don’t. I guess my point is, lots of good suggestions here and the more you narrow down how you will actually use it, the easier it is to cut through the noise and disregard the things that don’t really matter to you to find the solution that you’ll actually enjoy using.

Wow, good stuff. I am aware that folks have experiences or have heard things that are different from others. So I do take that into account. I am following a few brewers on the youtubes and take some of what they say under consideration.. though as you say.. people have different experiences (especially when they might be sponsored there).

I will take a look at Brewha - thanks for the suggestion.
As for pressure fermenting, the youtubes sure are full of it now.. seems to be trending. So maybe I have a bit of FOMO.. also the ability to naturally carbonate under pressure.. people wouldn't believe the cost of CO2 here as the shipping is hazmat. The cost of living in paradise! But I'm undecided about all that. I appreciate the dialog here (and hopefully will help others in their search for what to get) and have a lot to think about. Something will eventually present itself. Half tempted to just buy a 6.5 gallon corny ($151 on amazon with free shipping) plus an altered lid (maybe with the tri-clamp feature) and use that a bit - see if a sale pops up on a conical if I still want to try that route. But I will contact Brewha. I've also written to Goldstream.

For cleaning a conical I had the idea of building a small wood stand for it high enough to get a bucket under it.

 

[Hunky]

I made my first conical unitank 30 years ago out of a 10-gallon corny keg ($45). I removed the bottom of the keg and welded a 60º cone in its place. At the time, this was more out of necessity. Today we have more options when it comes to "homebrewing" conical unitanks than I can count.

Wish I could tig weld! Can't justify tho learning it and equipping at this stage of the game. Though I'm confident I could. But yes, a dizzying array of choice!

 

[Hunky]

off topic but for sh*ts and giggles when I was doing extract brewing (started back in the mid 70's - actually brewed some wine when I was 14 earlier), here is a label I stuck on one of my bottled brews. Moonlight springs is where we get our water. Really good water.

 

[Hunky]

I have a small SS from Delta and a small Anvil SS bucket. I would not buy another Anvil bucket, and I’m happy with the Delta. Okay there’s my 2 cents. I’ve read that a long soak in Starsan would get aromas out of plastic. I’ve never noticed a plastic fermenter transferring aroma to the next beer.

Thanks for the data points. It would be easier if you said you didn't like either! (I jokes).

 

[Hunky]

Given your goals and location (i.e., shipping challenge), the Delta Fermtank TC seems like a fine fit at a good price. I share your preference to reduce plastic parts.

btw, you may find dumping trub into your smallish sink to be fairly straightforward. (That said, I'm glad of my 24x24 sink, which simplifies cleaning large vessels.)

I keep an eye on sinks, but amazon generally charges about $500. There is a Vevor for $450, but the comments... I make do. My sink is maybe 18" square, maybe 21 x 18, I forget.. but the faucet takes up a lot of that.

Thanks for the response! Still looking at the Delta.. but I have some soul searching to do.

.

 

[ITV]

off topic but for sh*ts and giggles when I was doing extract brewing (started back in the mid 70's - actually brewed some wine when I was 14 earlier), here is a label I stuck on one of my bottled brews. Moonlight springs is where we get our water. Really good water.

And it was done with a typewriter, very high tech back then!

 

[sibelman]

do I need it?

People can make fine beer in plastic buckets. Just sayin'.

It's satisfying to be able to minimize oxygen ingress. And notwithstanding improvements in plastics, they're still plastic. Is that a need? Sort of.

Best of luck with your next fermenter, whatever it turns out to be!

 

[Hunky]

People can make fine beer in plastic buckets. Just sayin'.

How I started. Actually, my first batch in a plastic bucket was made with 2 other fellows while in college. We drank a bit too much during the brew day and none of us quite knew what the other was doing. Anyway.. we ended up with exploding bottles in the closet and undrinkable beer. I did have success after that debacle.

It's satisfying to be able to minimize oxygen ingress. And notwithstanding improvements in plastics, they're still plastic. Is that a need? Sort of.

Best of luck with your next fermenter, whatever it turns out to be!

Thanks - you gave me some good stuff to think on, as did everyone else.

 

[Deadalus]

Since one of your concerns is cleaning, I had to clean my two X2s (7 gal) this week. I have been trying different methods over the course of several brews, some of that I have discussed on other threads. My current thinking is to not use CIP as it did not perform well with my brew pumps. A stronger pump might do better. However, I still feel like many of the TC fittings and add-ons need hand washing since I don't have a setup configured to recirculate through all the fittings. What seems to work is a good soak of the fermenter with all fittings below the lid still attached. This allows soaking the krausen ring. Then I clean the inside body of the conical and remove and soak everything except I clean the carb stone fitting separate. My X2s sit on a SS table. I'm an older, some years to go before retirement middle aged guy, not as fit as I used to be but hale. I just racked both unis. I disassembled the first one forgetting to soak first. The second one, I didn't dump the yeast cake. The second was heavy but it was manageable to bring to the floor. I could have taken the lid off and dumped the yeast cake. The X2s have a full lid, plus mine have coils and two valves on top. I may have taken the coil out. Completely stripped, the conical is very light and easy to move around. Stripped, the body does fit in my utility sink, but upside down the nose is higher than the sink top. I soak them right outside in the driveway, then I drain there. I have one of Bobby's short sight glasses, a valve and an elbow on the dump port. I need the elbow unfortunately. On the first one, I dumped the yeast cake into a one gallon pitcher. I could slide the uni to the table edge to drain into a bucket if I wanted to. It's too high with the table to fill for soaking and cleaning though. If soaked, the conical body is easy to clean. All the attachments do take time to clean. But consider if not using a conical, you may be using them anyway. My mini-bucket, still cleaning the racking valve, the blowoff tube, the top butterfly valve I use with TC port I added, the lid with it's thermowell, and its coil. I also have to clean the O2 wand.

Now my X2 fully accessorized and full, moving that might be a ball breaker! But I don't do that! I pump out of the BK, pressure/gravity drain to keg.

A note about cooling. If you wanted to lager as an example, you'd need to cool any fermenter in some fashion. A small conical-5 gallon batch size- can probably fit in many of the same size ferm chambers other fermenters fit in. Glycol chiller isn't required. Pros and cons to using one however. The ferm chamber cost though is because you are lagering or deciding to cold crash not because you bought the conical.

My E-Brew system began with 3 keggles, now 2 (HLT, BK). A 1/4 barrel while not as heavy as a 1/2, has an initial weight to it. Both my keggles are heavy with their valves and with the HERMS coil, the HLT is a beast to move around. When someone mentions they are older, I know the feeling so I try to mention the initial weight involved as pots are lighter.

 

[fluketamer]

cleaning is the only thing preventing me from getting a SS conical. i like the light weight of my fermzilla. i fear having to lift and empty that SS when rinsing .

 

[Broken Crow]

^ @fluketamer just hit a big nail on the head there.... No matter what you get, it'll need to be cleaned and since it sounds like that'll involve an undesirable carrying upstairs, you might want to think about getting a CIP ball and suitable pump... no matter what you settle on, having a CIP rig allows you to (as the name states) Clean In Place as long as you have the drainage. If you get a smaller CIP ball, it could fit in the neck of a sanke if you go that way and it'll use lower pressure than a larger ball and give you more leeway on an affordable pump. *..A CIP rig can also aid in easier brew-day cleanup of your kettle and mash tun (if you use one).
....just sayin'

 

[Hunky]

cleaning is the only thing preventing me from getting a SS conical. i like the light weight of my fermzilla. i fear having to lift and empty that SS when rinsing .

I hear you. I think it was the Apartment Brewer on youtube who reviewed an X2 and mentioned how much cleaning all the parts takes. Got me rethinking. Love the jacketed unit for cold crashing.. but if I can find an upright freezer or even a refrigerator big enough to fit whatever I get, and something light enough to hoist in or out for cleaning and whatever.. I'm over 70 but work out at the gym 5 days a week.. but even with that my bones and fingers are starting to feel it.

 

[jdubdvdt]

I will say that the converted kegs are not much heavier than a standard corny keg and I just use a DIY keg washer to clean my converted kegs. A 4" ferrule will give me more options such as using glycol chilling coils, thermowell, hop bong, etc. as well as let me see inside the keg a bit more.

I still want a SS bucket fermenter for wine.

 

[Deadalus]

I will say that the converted kegs are not much heavier than a standard corny keg and I just use a DIY keg washer to clean my converted kegs. A 4" ferrule will give me more options such as using glycol chilling coils, thermowell, hop bong, etc. as well as let me see inside the keg a bit more.

I still want a SS bucket fermenter for wine.

A five gallon cornelius keg weighs about 9 lbs and a slim quarter keg weighs about 22 lbs according to Kegworks.

A 1/2 barrel weighs 30 lbs empty. A keggle would weigh a little less but typically the rim is left and it is just the very top cut out.

 

[sibelman]

With the top and accessories removed, a stainless bucket fermenter isn't heavy. I wonder about the weight of conicals, especially the jacketed ones.

 

[ITV]

I'm fortunate to have a larger single bowl sink (as opposed to a double bowl sink) in my basement which my CF10 fits into.

For cleaning I set the conical inside the sink, remove the top lid, open the bottom valve and rinse out (with my pull out faucet) followed by removing all the valves and accessories and let them soak in a bucket of hot PBW.

Then I use a blue scotch brite pad (non-scratching) with barkeepers friend to scrub the inside, followed by a rinse, air dry and reassembly the following day.

 

[shoengine]

With the top and accessories removed, a stainless bucket fermenter isn't heavy. I wonder about the weight of conicals, especially the jacketed ones.

My 8 gallon is ~ 85 lbs

On regards to cleaning, I brew and ferment in the garage. I hook up a 10 foot hose to the bottom drain (1.5"!) and discharge into the yard. With my frequency of brewing it just integrates naturally.