Jagermeister Machine as a Glycol Chiller?

[halucin8]

Could someone tell me how a Jagermeister chiller works? What it looks like on the inside? I would assume it's basically a small freezer with a coil inside, but really I don't have a clue.

I'm am kicking around the idea of turning one into either just a straight up wort chiller or using it as a glycol chiller for use with my plate chiller.

I have serious doubts that the machine would be able chill boiling wort. What do you think.

I can pick up one of these for $100, so it might just be worth some experimentation. I'll update if I decide to try it.

Thanks & Cheers.

 

[MalFet]

My understanding is that it is exactly as you describe. It might work for a fermentation chiller, but I think you'd have a hard time using it to cool boiling wort. Too much thermal mass to cool on the fly.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Doubt that thing has the horsepower you're looking for, but I've been wrong before.

 

[arturo7]

What size is the compressor? What size is the pump? What materials are used?

The first concern would be the unit's ability to withstand boiling wort. If it can't do that it might still be used as a post chiller for the wort or to chill water going through an IC or CFC.

I don't think there would be a need to use glycol.

 

[halucin8]

The first concern would be the unit's ability to withstand boiling wort. If it can't do that it might still be used as a post chiller for the wort or to chill water going through an IC or CFC.

I never even thought about melting the insides with boiling wort. Go figure.

Used in conjunction with the plate chiller would probably be the dealio.

 

[arturo7]

Using it with a plate chiller would be golden. However, flow rate is still important. If the GPM is too low, you'll get better cooling in the plate chiller with a garden hose.

 

[MalFet]

Using it with a plate chiller would be golden. However, flow rate is still important. If the GPM is too low, you'll get better cooling in the plate chiller with a garden hose.

You mean running glycol/water/whatever in a loop through one side and running beer through the other side? I don't think flow would be the issue, but just that simple table top compressor can't move the BTUs necessary to create sufficient a temperature differential. My fermentation fridge, for example, can drop wort a few degrees per hour. In order to function as a wort chiller, this thing would have to be several orders of magnitude more powerful.

 

[arturo7]

Mal, the volume of liquid dealt with by the Jag machine is significantly less than your fridge. The system is also much more efficient. These units take room temp Jag down to near freezing in rather quickly. Your fridge couldn't do that without significant mods.

That said, compressor size, and the flow rate, are the key factors.

 

[MalFet]

Mal, the volume of liquid dealt with by the Jag machine is significantly less than your fridge. The system is also much more efficient. These units take room temp Jag down to near freezing in rather quickly. Your fridge couldn't do that without significant mods.

That said, compressor size, and the flow rate, are the key factors.

I'll not understanding you then...you talk about using a plate chiller. Are you suggesting that he use this chiller to cool glycol/water/something else and the flow that through one half of the chiller and flow wort through the other? Or is the wort going into the chiller directly?

I certainly agree that the compressor size is the limiting factor here. If by flow rate you mean "how much wort this machine can cool and pass in a given period of time", I completely agree with you. If you mean "how much liquid can be passed through pump/tubing of the the machine in a given time" then I'm still skeptical.

Edit: Did a bit more research on the machines and they seem to work as I thought. A compressor cools a small heat exchanger to below freezing, and the heat-exchanger insta-chills shots as they pour down the surface of the exchanger. These things are very effective at cooling an ounce or two at a time, but don't have the heat mass or power to cool more than that.

 

[arturo7]

It's a matter of how fast they cool that one shot. One minute? 5 seconds? There's a world of difference in between.

I'd guess you wouldn't want to put boiling wort through that thing. But it might work. Hard to say for sure without the specs. It could certainly be used on the cold side of a heatX. Would it be better than a garden hose? Again, hard to say w/o the specs.

Worst case, it would probably make a fine post chiller to get down to pitching temps, especially with a lager. But you could probably do that for less than $100 mentioned above.

 

[Hoodweisen]

If i was you i would buy it for 100 bucks and then put up for sale for 200 because they were 299 a couple years ago new worst case scenario you only make 50 bucks

 

[MalFet]

It's a matter of how fast they cool that one shot. One minute? 5 seconds? There's a world of difference in between.

I'd guess you wouldn't want to put boiling wort through that thing. But it might work. Hard to say for sure without the specs. It could certainly be used on the cold side of a heatX. Would it be better than a garden hose? Again, hard to say w/o the specs.

Worst case, it would probably make a fine post chiller to get down to pitching temps, especially with a lager. But you could probably do that for less than $100 mentioned above.

It cools a shot in seconds, but the problem is that every time you pull one you're warming up the heat exchanger. If you tried to run liquid through it continuously, the first couple ounces would be nice and cold but would warm up quickly from there.

Unfortunately, it's just thermodynamics. You need a lot of juice to displace that much heat. Continuous insta-chillers are big, cost $20k, and require a lot of 220v electricity to operate.

 

[halucin8]

It cools a shot in seconds, but the problem is that every time you pull one you're warming up the heat exchanger. If you tried to run liquid through it continuously, the first couple ounces would be nice and cold but would warm up quickly from there.

Unfortunately, it's just thermodynamics. You need a lot of juice to displace that much heat. Continuous insta-chillers are big, cost $20k, and require a lot of 220v electricity to operate.

Do you think it would be useful for recirculation of water through a plate chiller? I have a pretty big chiller and don't mind a slow flow rate.

My main reason for trying to do this is water conservation. During the winter, I am able to use our pool water for chilling, but during the Summer the pool water is close to 90 degrees.

Thanks for all the information so far.

 

[arturo7]

You need to find the compressor size and pump HP.

 

[MalFet]

Do you think it would be useful for recirculation of water through a plate chiller? I have a pretty big chiller and don't mind a slow flow rate.

My main reason for trying to do this is water conservation. During the winter, I am able to use our pool water for chilling, but during the Summer the pool water is close to 90 degrees.

Thanks for all the information so far.

Unfortunately, I'm still pretty skeptical. In a sense, arturo is right that it comes down to compressor size, but the kind of compressor you would need to cool wort at that volume and at that speed simply doesn't fit on a counter top. Rather than simply asserting that again and again, here are some numbers.

Figure it like this: 5 gallons of wort is about 40 pounds, and to cool 40 pounds of water 150 degrees requires 6000 BTU of heat transfer. Whether it's through a plate chiller or through direct feed, it's still 6000 BTU...that's just how much heat there is to move. Let's say that you're happy with a relatively slow chill, 1/2 hour. That ends up being a chiller with a 1 ton capacity. (A "ton" is a unit of heat transfer equal to 6000 BTU/hour). If you want something that competes with a whirlpool chiller, you need more like 2 tons.

This website sells chillers in this range, but they're just way, way bigger than what you are looking at with the Jaeger machine. Their 1 ton machine draws 18 amps of 220v power (a lot) and weighs over 400 pounds. Unless the Jaegermeister machine is more efficient than industrial equipment, it won't work.

This makes sense, too. The Jaeger machines are designed to very quickly bring a small amount of booze (ounces, not gallons) down to near freezing. I suspect that their heat exchangers can't handle continuous volumes for anything approaching the length of time you'd need. That said, if you can throw some specific numbers our way, we can stop speculating.

I'm curious about finding water friendly approaches, too, as there are some serious water shortage where I live. You could still use pool water to bring your temps down for your first 100 or so degrees below boiling, but after that you'd need to find a colder source. That said, a 90 degree pool sounds really nice. I'm freezing my ass right now.

 

[Egbert]

Something like the shot machine may work for something like cooling glycol for long tower lines to remote taps.

Like where they guys have taps in their kitchen but keezer in the basement under the kitchen.

 

[azscoob]

The shot chiller that I have is just a fancy housing that holds a bottle upside-down, this fills a reservoir that has a coil wrapped around it to chill it down, the machine needs to be running for a good length of time to chill the booze down, I can chill a bottle of Jaeger to 0°F over a 12 hour time period, once it is running and cool you can run another bottle through it with no issues because you are dispensing 1 oz at a time and therefore only adding another oz to the 750ml storage vessel that is at 0°, so the thermal transfer is minimal. as for using it for brewing, I would doubt it has the power to chill even a degree or two. the larger 3 bottle shot chillers are the same design as the smaller one I have, just with a larger storage tank, they also take the same time to chill down, bars that have these chillers leave them running 24-7 to avoid serving a warm shot to a customer.