MFOTY83
New Member
Good luck!! I finally signed up to Homebrewtalk after spending the last hour reading this thread. Though Maine is far from where I am, I can see myself making a trip out there to have a pint and some BBQ.
It's official starting my own brewing business!
- Thread starter akthor
- Start date
Help Support Homebrew Talk:
OP
OP
akthor
Well-Known Member
Haven't checked into yet been too busy with work (been working 60 hrs per week) and trying to get stuff done here. Rapidly approaching the point where I need to find out though because once I get to the point of doing work specific to the brewing alone I have to know if we will keep the brewing area in the main building or turn the 12x16 shed into a brew shed.
After we get the exterior painting done this weekend I am going to find out what I need to do because the next part besides building the walk in cooler would be ordering flooring and building walls to seperate the utilty room/laundry room so before I do that I need to know.
I did make friends with my neighbor when he came to look for his dog on my property he loved my plans and told me to keep him in mind for the gravel and earthwork for the campground cuz he has a business that does that stuff. AND he has friends on the planning board here on the island
After we get the exterior painting done this weekend I am going to find out what I need to do because the next part besides building the walk in cooler would be ordering flooring and building walls to seperate the utilty room/laundry room so before I do that I need to know.
I did make friends with my neighbor when he came to look for his dog on my property he loved my plans and told me to keep him in mind for the gravel and earthwork for the campground cuz he has a business that does that stuff. AND he has friends on the planning board here on the island
PistolPete2
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Aug 28, 2011
- Messages
- 71
- Reaction score
- 4
Go for it!
OP
OP
akthor
Well-Known Member
Hey fellas here's some Maine Small Brewery Law stuff, I have perused and don't anything say a residence CAN'T be attached to the brewery. Maybe I am reading it wrong but here are the links if you guys wanna look them over and give me your opinions:
http://www.mainelegislature.org/legis/statutes/28-a/title28-Ach51.pdf
http://www.maine.gov/dps/liqr/applications.html
http://law.justia.com/codes/maine/2005/title28-ach0sec0/title28-asec1355.html
http://www.cga.ct.gov/2009/rpt/2009-R-0291.htm
Free pint to anyone who can make heads or tails of this stuff
Oh hell any of you who show up get a free pint anyways
Goin back out to paint
http://www.mainelegislature.org/legis/statutes/28-a/title28-Ach51.pdf
http://www.maine.gov/dps/liqr/applications.html
http://law.justia.com/codes/maine/2005/title28-ach0sec0/title28-asec1355.html
http://www.cga.ct.gov/2009/rpt/2009-R-0291.htm
Free pint to anyone who can make heads or tails of this stuff
Oh hell any of you who show up get a free pint anyways
Goin back out to paint
borden
Well-Known Member
Not totally caught up on this thread, but a more likely issue would be that the zoning code in your municipality would not allow that. Again, apologies if this has already been covered, but I'd recommend meeting with whoever is in charge of zoning for the muni and see what regulations apply and how to seek out variances/etc. if needed.
This is pretty straight forward legal jargon. I mean straight forward to me. I did a bit of business law studying in college. And your right it doesn't say any in the alcohol section about residence and brewery issues but that might come up in zoning laws more than the creation and distribution of alcohol.
This looks like a good resource of all your permitting and legal reporting.
This is a distilled version of the first one.
This is a good quick reference to how many bbls you can produce in a year and how much other states can.
Good luck to you. I hope I helpped in some fashion and hopefully i can come out to maine one day and see it.
Cheers
![Craft A Brew - Safale S-04 Dry Yeast - Fermentis - English Ale Dry Yeast - For English and American Ales and Hard Apple Ciders - Ingredients for Home Brewing - Beer Making Supplies - [1 Pack]](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/41fVGNh6JfL._SL500_.jpg)
beau_cephus
Active Member
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2011
- Messages
- 41
- Reaction score
- 0
subscribed
OP
OP
akthor
Well-Known Member
Zoning is the least of my worries. Where I am is already zoned commercial. I will not be selling liquor or even bud light. And I have no close neighbors. I have several contacts who are either on the planning board or are friends with people on the planning board and all have given me a big thumbs up.
In reading the laws there seems to be nothing about a residence attached to a brewery. There is something about the brewing area being separated from the brew pub area by a door. So we may have to move the doorway to the fermentation room so that you enter from the brewing area and not the tap room.
We are going to start checking the building codes now to make sure there isn't anything we need to do special. My gf knows the code enforcement guy too.
More pics of the newly painted and trimmed building and the newly renovated shed exterior tomorrow.
In reading the laws there seems to be nothing about a residence attached to a brewery. There is something about the brewing area being separated from the brew pub area by a door. So we may have to move the doorway to the fermentation room so that you enter from the brewing area and not the tap room.
We are going to start checking the building codes now to make sure there isn't anything we need to do special. My gf knows the code enforcement guy too.
More pics of the newly painted and trimmed building and the newly renovated shed exterior tomorrow.
rifraf
Well-Known Member
Not for nothing, the minute you start selling your beer it's legally the same as bud light and is no longer homebrew. You're still going to need a liquor license etc even if you don't sell liquor or "commercial" brews.
Sounds like the zoning won't be a problem though which is nice. Have you considered an attorney for the convenience of not having to deal with any of it?
Sounds like the zoning won't be a problem though which is nice. Have you considered an attorney for the convenience of not having to deal with any of it?
Good stuff. Good luck to you. I know that my winery has to report where tax paid wine is stored versus where bonded wine is stored and they dont care if that includes residence property as long as they know where it is stored. Cheers.
OP
OP
akthor
Well-Known Member
Lol no what I mean is I won't be selling hard liquor or bud lt meaning that I won't have crazy drunk people fighting in the parking lot
OP
OP
akthor
Well-Known Member
Federal laws? Hmmm got any info on them I was only aware of state laws. Figured as long as the feds got their taxes they were happy? Of course federally marijuana is illegal but in Maine we have medical marijuana so who knows what is right?
OP
OP
akthor
Well-Known Member
Oops double post
barryfine
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure if the feds actually care if the brewery is attached to a residence or not, but here is where you can find the answer: http://www.ttb.gov/beer/index.shtml
I haven't read through the first 32 pages but there are an asston of Federal, State and local laws that have to be dealt with. Two partners and I are,f reakin hopefully, about two weeks from opening a nano in SE Mass and have all of our licenses done. We are simply waiting for our HVAC guy to finish the ventilation and then get the final building inspector sign off.
The TTB has a mountain of paperwork that needs to be filled out but 99% of what they Feds care about is taxes, how you're going to track your payable taxes and then how you're going to pay them. (not remotely accusing you of this but folks who think, "meh... I'll figure it out and pay 'em what I want"... are in for a very rude awakening). They're going to want surety bonds, bank statements, proof of where all of the funding for this venture is coming from, blueprints of the floorplan, the deed or lease agreement on the space showing it is cleared for use, explanations of how you are going to keep your pre-tax and post-tax inventory physically separated... those are just a few things.
Then... once you have your TTB license, you can deal with the state... and go through all of the same stuff although the state is going to start getting more specific in terms of the various licenses you can apply for and how they will apply. They'll also want all of the same tax information, etc. On top of that, you'll start getting into the whole "brewery attached to a residence" issue ( I don't know what the laws in Maine say about it).
Once you have all of that done... THEN, you get the pleasure of dealing with the town building codes... and here's where the real fun begins. Is the building zoned properly for a brewery? Just because it may be zoned "commercial" or even "restaurant" doesn't mean it is zoned for being a brewery. We had a nightmare because our building was zoned for both commercial and restaurant but according to our town's by-laws, a brewery is a "manufacturing plant"... as you're "manufacturing" beer... so we had to deal with the building inspector and town zoning board before we could even lift a finger. Then you're going to need to pull every permit under the sun by licensed electricians, plumbers, HVAC guys, etc to hook everything up. Also... the town building inspector and plumbing inspector will likely have a strong opinion on the actual brewing equipment. The trusty old banjo burners?? Nope... not in our town. They aren't UL certified nor do they have any other industry safety certifications so we couldn't use them. We had to go out and buy commercial stove tops for $1,600 instead... and that's just the tip of the iceberg... Handicap bathrooms installations, gas leak sensors, automatic gas shutoff valves, we had to replace a sprinkler head per the Fire Dept.... that was fun... had to have a licensed electrician come in to shut down the fire alarm system (that's a permit) since the "fire sprinkler guy" didn't have that license... then the fire sprinkler guy had to drain the entire building's system (another permit)... twist off the old head, twist on the new head... refill the system... oh... then you have to have the FIre Dept come by and test the system to make sure it is all working.
Building Inspector
Plumbing Inspector
Fire Dept.
Don't forget the Board of Health...
They all have to sign off on everything..
THEN... then you can brew.
That doesn't include any marketing, distribution, accounting (the taxes are a nightmare) etc... . or a BBQ restaurant on top of that.
The TTB has a mountain of paperwork that needs to be filled out but 99% of what they Feds care about is taxes, how you're going to track your payable taxes and then how you're going to pay them. (not remotely accusing you of this but folks who think, "meh... I'll figure it out and pay 'em what I want"... are in for a very rude awakening). They're going to want surety bonds, bank statements, proof of where all of the funding for this venture is coming from, blueprints of the floorplan, the deed or lease agreement on the space showing it is cleared for use, explanations of how you are going to keep your pre-tax and post-tax inventory physically separated... those are just a few things.
Then... once you have your TTB license, you can deal with the state... and go through all of the same stuff although the state is going to start getting more specific in terms of the various licenses you can apply for and how they will apply. They'll also want all of the same tax information, etc. On top of that, you'll start getting into the whole "brewery attached to a residence" issue ( I don't know what the laws in Maine say about it).
Once you have all of that done... THEN, you get the pleasure of dealing with the town building codes... and here's where the real fun begins. Is the building zoned properly for a brewery? Just because it may be zoned "commercial" or even "restaurant" doesn't mean it is zoned for being a brewery. We had a nightmare because our building was zoned for both commercial and restaurant but according to our town's by-laws, a brewery is a "manufacturing plant"... as you're "manufacturing" beer... so we had to deal with the building inspector and town zoning board before we could even lift a finger. Then you're going to need to pull every permit under the sun by licensed electricians, plumbers, HVAC guys, etc to hook everything up. Also... the town building inspector and plumbing inspector will likely have a strong opinion on the actual brewing equipment. The trusty old banjo burners?? Nope... not in our town. They aren't UL certified nor do they have any other industry safety certifications so we couldn't use them. We had to go out and buy commercial stove tops for $1,600 instead... and that's just the tip of the iceberg... Handicap bathrooms installations, gas leak sensors, automatic gas shutoff valves, we had to replace a sprinkler head per the Fire Dept.... that was fun... had to have a licensed electrician come in to shut down the fire alarm system (that's a permit) since the "fire sprinkler guy" didn't have that license... then the fire sprinkler guy had to drain the entire building's system (another permit)... twist off the old head, twist on the new head... refill the system... oh... then you have to have the FIre Dept come by and test the system to make sure it is all working.
Building Inspector
Plumbing Inspector
Fire Dept.
Don't forget the Board of Health...
They all have to sign off on everything..
THEN... then you can brew.
That doesn't include any marketing, distribution, accounting (the taxes are a nightmare) etc... . or a BBQ restaurant on top of that.
I only scrolled back a couple of pages... NO idea what it will be in your area but the OSD you have on the walls won't fly remotely in our area due to the codes... we needed 5/8s fire-rated sheet rock, floor to ceiling, anywhere that was going to be remotely close to the burners. We couldn't have any "wood" any where near the open flames of the burners.
Again... I have no idea what your local codes are going to require but I would recommend getting a REALLY strong handle on all of that before moving forward with anything else. The last thing you want to do is spend time and money putting something together only to find out you're going to have to rip it all down and start all over.
And sorry... one last thing because I think I saw someone kinda of say this... at least in our area here in SE Mass... there is no, "plead ignorance and ask for forgiveness" to this sort of stuff if you happen to skip over a code or something. All of the different folks (building inspector, plumbing, etc. etc) all have to sign off on an Occupancy Permit which is your final "permission to officially open" document and if you don't have that, they simply come in and shut you down. You can re-open once you then get that Occupancy Permit, which... requires all of those people to then sign off so it's not a matter of simply paying a $100 fine and then chugging right along. You're out of business until you're 100% up to snuff.... on top of any fines they want to deal you.
Again... I have no idea what your local codes are going to require but I would recommend getting a REALLY strong handle on all of that before moving forward with anything else. The last thing you want to do is spend time and money putting something together only to find out you're going to have to rip it all down and start all over.
And sorry... one last thing because I think I saw someone kinda of say this... at least in our area here in SE Mass... there is no, "plead ignorance and ask for forgiveness" to this sort of stuff if you happen to skip over a code or something. All of the different folks (building inspector, plumbing, etc. etc) all have to sign off on an Occupancy Permit which is your final "permission to officially open" document and if you don't have that, they simply come in and shut you down. You can re-open once you then get that Occupancy Permit, which... requires all of those people to then sign off so it's not a matter of simply paying a $100 fine and then chugging right along. You're out of business until you're 100% up to snuff.... on top of any fines they want to deal you.
OP
OP
akthor
Well-Known Member
I thank you very much for the info and if you would PM me your email I would like to ask some more specific questions get some more info from you.
I knew the licensing would be a PITA. I have never intended to make any permanent modifications to where I plan to brew until I had all my ducks in a row on the licensing and permits ect. I am not borrowing any money I am doing things as I have the time and money to do them I am in no rush so I will be sure to do things according to the rules and regs.
I did start a Cafe' from scratch at my previous job so I am aware of the hoops you need to jump through tho it seems a brewery is a different animal (more complex)
I have to ask what savings of time and money do you think it might have made if you had not had any open flames and had gone all electric?
I knew the licensing would be a PITA. I have never intended to make any permanent modifications to where I plan to brew until I had all my ducks in a row on the licensing and permits ect. I am not borrowing any money I am doing things as I have the time and money to do them I am in no rush so I will be sure to do things according to the rules and regs.
I did start a Cafe' from scratch at my previous job so I am aware of the hoops you need to jump through tho it seems a brewery is a different animal (more complex)
I have to ask what savings of time and money do you think it might have made if you had not had any open flames and had gone all electric?
Just drop me a PM whenever you would like...
I can't give too much of an opinion on the electric question... I've never brewed on an electric rig but, and I am simply guessing here, I would think that might be just as big a pain given you're dealing with some fairly significant electricity there. That's something the inspectors would go through with a fine toothed comb, including wanting to see the license of the electrician that put it all together... including the permit they pulled to do so. Sure, they probably don't need a permit to build it... but to plug it in and run it, you probably would.
I can't give too much of an opinion on the electric question... I've never brewed on an electric rig but, and I am simply guessing here, I would think that might be just as big a pain given you're dealing with some fairly significant electricity there. That's something the inspectors would go through with a fine toothed comb, including wanting to see the license of the electrician that put it all together... including the permit they pulled to do so. Sure, they probably don't need a permit to build it... but to plug it in and run it, you probably would.
OP
OP
akthor
Well-Known Member
Sorry its been so long between updates but been busy. When not working on the house or working OT I have been brewing my pants off. To the point that I need to get going on my walk in cooler.
But if you look at the first pictures you can see the house was a two tone grayish and the outbuilding was halfway covered in white vinyl siding. Also the soffets and trim weren't done all the way around and the door was horrible. Also neither building had trim around the windows. Also the entrance to the brewery was a white door.
Here you can see we tore off the siding on the shed and put on T1-11 to match the house, shingled the gable ends and finished the soffits and trim also re-did the door (can't see it in the pic but trust me it's a lot better). Its always annoyed me that the shed stood out like a sore thumb when coming up the driveway. No it matches the house and it looks like a little cabin or cottage which will be perfect for either the office/store for the campground or if I need it for part of the brewery.
Painted the house and the shed brown, trimmed and painted the windows and doors in green.
Downstairs we framed in the wall to separate the brewery from the laundry/utility room.
Next is to finish up the painting on the house and use thompsons on the raw wood of the deck and to start the walk in.
I was bummed I just missed out on a 7 1/2' - 3 glass door, pepsi cooler for $150 that would have served as well as the walk in cooler for a lot cheaper.
Thats my brother in the pic and all that crap outside is junk that was downstairs going away.
But if you look at the first pictures you can see the house was a two tone grayish and the outbuilding was halfway covered in white vinyl siding. Also the soffets and trim weren't done all the way around and the door was horrible. Also neither building had trim around the windows. Also the entrance to the brewery was a white door.
Here you can see we tore off the siding on the shed and put on T1-11 to match the house, shingled the gable ends and finished the soffits and trim also re-did the door (can't see it in the pic but trust me it's a lot better). Its always annoyed me that the shed stood out like a sore thumb when coming up the driveway. No it matches the house and it looks like a little cabin or cottage which will be perfect for either the office/store for the campground or if I need it for part of the brewery.
Painted the house and the shed brown, trimmed and painted the windows and doors in green.
Downstairs we framed in the wall to separate the brewery from the laundry/utility room.
Next is to finish up the painting on the house and use thompsons on the raw wood of the deck and to start the walk in.
I was bummed I just missed out on a 7 1/2' - 3 glass door, pepsi cooler for $150 that would have served as well as the walk in cooler for a lot cheaper.
Thats my brother in the pic and all that crap outside is junk that was downstairs going away.
android
Well-Known Member
looks good bro!
philjohnwilliams
Well-Known Member
I have been following this thread for a while, and all I can say is very cool.
Skeeter7424
Member
33 pages...i want an award (or another beer) for reading that across the past 47 minutes (yeah thats right, I timed it...)
First off, I wish you GREAT luck in what you are doing. I've be a part of two small business ventures (neither were beer related) that couldn't have been more fun, or a better learning experience. Also what you are doing is something I would love to do one day, just not in this lovely state of Massachusetts!
The one thing I will say, is simply take ALL of the advice and keep it in mind. One of two things will happen with what people say. 1- It will be correct, and you will think more about something you were going to do, and possibly save yourself time and/or money...or 2- it will be wrong, you may twice think a decision, and either confirm what you were going to do in the first place, or find an even BETTER way of doing it!
We're actually heading up to Acadia in 3 weeks to do a bunch of mountain biking. We'll be at a certain Oktoberfest up there on Saturday the 6th. Might stop at your place and trade some brews with you if you're around!
Cheers
Jordan
First off, I wish you GREAT luck in what you are doing. I've be a part of two small business ventures (neither were beer related) that couldn't have been more fun, or a better learning experience. Also what you are doing is something I would love to do one day, just not in this lovely state of Massachusetts!
The one thing I will say, is simply take ALL of the advice and keep it in mind. One of two things will happen with what people say. 1- It will be correct, and you will think more about something you were going to do, and possibly save yourself time and/or money...or 2- it will be wrong, you may twice think a decision, and either confirm what you were going to do in the first place, or find an even BETTER way of doing it!
We're actually heading up to Acadia in 3 weeks to do a bunch of mountain biking. We'll be at a certain Oktoberfest up there on Saturday the 6th. Might stop at your place and trade some brews with you if you're around!
Cheers
Jordan
OP
OP
akthor
Well-Known Member
PM me dude we'll see if we can work it out for you guys to come hang out with us. I'm about 45 mins away from Acadia
