Issues With My New Keezer

[J2W2]

Hi,

I recently finished building a coffin keezer. I used Ultra Barrier Silver tubing for the beer lines, Oetiker 13.3 clamps, and Perlick 650SS Flow Control faucets. Based on a calculator I used, and the Perlicks, I went with 6' lines. Last weekend I fired it up and transferred a Trappist Ale and Ferocious IPA from my kegerator.

I have one fan in my setup. My tap tower has three pieces of 1.5" foam pressed together, with an inverted U shaped channel cut out of the middle. The fan blows air from the freezer up one side of the U, across the back side of the shanks and down the other side of the U, where the beer lines enter the keezer. This fan doesn't move a lot air, but I can feel cold air coming out of the side of the U with the beer lines.

The first issue is gas (CO2) in my beer lines. Ever since I tapped my two kegs, I've had gas in the lines. It clears out when I pour a beer, but reforms again as they sit. In researching this, I've seen that a number of people have had this issue with Ultra Barrier Silver tubing. A common solution I've seen seems to be cranking up the serving PSI, to help keep the CO2 in solution.

My second issue is extreme foaming on the IPA. The Trappist pours fine, but the IPA is pouring almost all foam, regardless of how I adjust the flow control. I had been running the IPA around 9-10 psi in my kegerator, because of the foaming issue. When I moved it to the keezer, I had both kegs on 15 psi, as I had assumed the Perlicks would compensate.

A couple of days ago I purged the CO2 from the IPA and let it sit (cold) and occasionally purged any pressure buildup for a day, then hooked it back up with 10psi. I poured one last night and it's a little better, but still mostly foam. I don't know if I didn't give it enough time to reduce the carbonation or if I have other issues. I didn't really have time to play with the flow control last night - I just tried a pour with it wide open.

My keezer is set up with two sets of CO2 valves, and a nitro line. I just completed an oatmeal stout, and I have that on one of the CO2 lines at 5psi. The Trappist and IPA are on the other set of valves right now, and set to 10 psi. Both beer lines are showing a lot of gas in them right now. I can see that being an issue in the IPA, if the Ultra Barrier lines need a higher psi, but I haven't poured a Trappist since I reduced the psi, so I would think it should still be sitting around 15 psi and it still has a lot of gas in the line.

I have my controller set at 40 degrees. I just took some temperature readings with my laser gun. The kegs are all showing 40 degrees. The beer lines with liquid in them are running around 41-42 degrees, which the sections with gas are more around 46 degrees. I really don't have a way to determine the temperature inside my tap tower.

I know this was long-winded, but I wanted to provide as many details as I could. Does anyone have any suggestions on these two issues? A longer beer line would probably resolve my IPA foam issue, but again, I would think the Perlick Flow Control faucets should resolve that as well. I'm wondering if all my issues are due to the Ultra Barrier Silver tubing. It would be a pain to pull my tower and replace the lines, but I need to figure something out. I'm also very curious how my stout will pour when I switch it over to nitrogen at 30 psi (it has a 15' line right now).

Thanks as always for your help!

 

[masonsjax]

I think your beer is overcarbed and that's probably the only real problem. I don't have experience with flow control taps, but I would guess you can use any length tubing with those. A slower pour will be kinder to foaming problems of course. Use a chart to figure out what pressure you need for the style beer and temperature you're serving them. Most beer styles are in the 2.5 volumes ballpark.

For nitro, the line length is not very important. Mine are only 2-3 feet long. It's really easy to overcarbonate a beer on nitro however. The difference between undercarbed and all foam is a very fine line. After sealing the lid with 30 psi of straight CO2 I hook up to nitro blend and leave it until it's ready. It may use slightly more beergas to do it that way, but you waste a lot when you have to decarb it and end up recarbing it on nitro anyway. Set it and forget it is foolproof.

 

[J2W2]

I think your beer is overcarbed and that's probably the only real problem. I don't have experience with flow control taps, but I would guess you can use any length tubing with those.

That's my hope on the IPA. Since I didn't let it warm up, or shake the keg or anything, I don't know how much carbonation it lost in a day without pressure. This is my second IPA, and they seem to really like to foam. My first IPA I bottled, and I literally had to use a 20 ounce glass in order to pour a 12 ounce beer!

Everything I read on flow control faucets said the line length doesn't matter much (or at all). I still tried to use a recommended line length. The MoreBeer site I bought the tubing from even says it is recommended for line runs of 9' or less, and that 6' is ideal. The only reason I have a longer nitro line is because I ordered enough to get free shipping, and I just used everything that was left after I cut my four 6' lines. I figured I can always trim that one back if it seems too long.

For nitro, the line length is not very important. Mine are only 2-3 feet long. It's really easy to overcarbonate a beer on nitro however.

I have my stout sitting on 5 psi of CO2. I'm planning to let it carb like that for a week, and then switch it over to my nitro line.

I'm still concerned with the gas in my beer lines. I had read one post that indicated this type of tubing reacts with beer initially (the silver coating inside or something), and then seems to settle down once the lines have been used a little. So I'm hoping they will settle down after a few more pours. Ramping up the psi to solve this issue won't do my IPA foam issue any good! I have a few guys coming over next Saturday to break it in, so I'm hoping to get these issues resolved first.

Thanks for the help!

 

[masonsjax]

How fast do the gas pockets show up after pouring a beer? If it's immediate, you might need new o-rings on your keg posts. If it takes a little while, it could just be from overcarbonation. I don't know anything about the silver lined tubing, maybe there's something to that.

Be careful with carbing on nitro at 5 psi. My experience is that very low pressures are not entirely accurate and like I said, it's really easy to overcarbonate a nitro beer. Patience is a virtue and a properly cascading nitro pour is well worth the wait.

 

[J2W2]

How fast do the gas pockets show up after pouring a beer? If it's immediate, you might need new o-rings on your keg posts. If it takes a little while, it could just be from overcarbonation. I don't know anything about the silver lined tubing, maybe there's something to that.

I just ran a little beer through each tap, to clear out the gas in the lines. Both lines started collecting small bubbles, almost immediately. Each of the kegs has a couple of loops of tubing on top of them, before they head up into the tower. The bubbles seem to form all along the tubing, and gather in the higher parts of the loops. It really seems to be from CO2 coming out of suspension, rather than any leaks around the posts. That seems to indicate something to do with the tubing (temperature, lining, etc.)

Be careful with carbing on nitro at 5 psi. My experience is that very low pressures are not entirely accurate and like I said, it's really easy to overcarbonate a nitro beer. Patience is a virtue and a properly cascading nitro pour is well worth the wait.

It's on pure CO2 right now at 5 psi. I had read, in this forum, that it's cheaper and more reliable to low carb it on CO2 first, and then switch to the beer gas mix, rather than starting on beer gas. It sounds like you don't agree with that method?

Thanks again!

 

[masonsjax]

Sounds like overcarbonation to me. It takes a while to decarb while it's still chilled. It can help to have a fan inside the kegerator to make sure the lines and beer all stay the same temp and make sure none of the lines have kinks or touch the walls where they can get significantly colder in some spots. Temperature divergence can break co2 out of solution.

Carbing nitro beers on straight co2 first cheaper? Yes if you figure out a way to nail it each time. More reliable no, not before a lot of trial and error with your particular setup. Like I said, set it and forget it is fool proof. When it comes to homebrewing, I've found that rushing never pays off.

 

[J2W2]

I took your advice and switched my stout over to the nitrogen line. I've been wanting to turn that one on anyway! Now I can keep my IPA on 10 psi or so on the second CO2 line, and kick my Trappist back to 14 on the other line.

Thanks again for your help!