Isolated Yeast (Tree House): How to Identify and Characterize?

[brewpharm Hill]

One of TH curiosity beers was with simcoe and galaxy. The description said it is a combination of hops they don't normally like or use together, but the curiosity beer turned out great. I can't remember which curiosity it was.

Yeah but you don’t have their Simcoe... that’s another issue these hops can really vary from lot to lot based on picking window and where it’s grown and Galaxy pretty much overpowers everything for that matter. Wouldn’t surprise me if it’s small amounts of Simcoe and Amarillo. I know for a fact it had both those hops in it at one point.

But still trying to replicate these beers with the hops we as homebrewers get is a serious stab in the dark. The stuff we have to work with is generally so far down the pecking order.

Yeah especially for the AU hops. I've never had great luck with the lots that my LHBS has... I took a stab at a galaxy, vic secret, cascade a couple of weeks ago and it came out grassy and bitter with less than impressive aroma. This is using my usual tried and true process.... I should've been lighter handed given the higher AA % of those hops, but still that fruity AU hop flavor isn't nearly as present. This has been my experience with the two AU hop IPAs I've made.

 

[isomerization]

One of TH curiosity beers was with simcoe and galaxy. The description said it is a combination of hops they don't normally like or use together, but the curiosity beer turned out great. I can't remember which curiosity it was.




Yeah especially for the AU hops. I've never had great luck with the lots that my LHBS has... I took a stab at a galaxy, vic secret, cascade a couple of weeks ago and it came out grassy and bitter with less than impressive aroma. This is using my usual tried and true process.... I should've been lighter handed given the higher AA % of those hops, but still that fruity AU hop flavor isn't nearly as present. This has been my experience with the two AU hop IPAs I've made.

I’ve bought Galaxy from Yakima Valley hops for the last 3 years (usually drops in June). Nothing to compare against, but the hops have produced amazing beers, so I’d highly recommend them.

 

[couchsending]

I’ve actually had great luck with the Vic Secret, Galaxy, Enogna I’ve used. I usually buy them from YVH. They’ve both been incredibly potent and no terrible off flavors although the Galaxy can be a little Ginger like sometimes. I just find I need to treat them a little differently. Both hops needs way more conditioning time. I usually lager those beers for twoish weeks at 32 to get the chalkiness to fall out.

Nelson on the other hand has been mostly horrible. Tried to make a big all Nelson beer this winter and it was great before the dry hop and no amount of conditioning could get rid of the overpowering grassy bitterness after the Dry Hop.

 

[brewpharm Hill]

I'm all about supporting your local LHBS, but I may start sourcing my hops through YVH. You two are among many other great reviews I've heard. The flavor and bitterness has been approving over the last few days. Hopefully it should be good in a week or so.

 

[NJGeorge]

Back to the yeast.. after drinking various TH for almost a month now and tasting my experiments with the copoitched yeast trio, I’m still not convinced the hefe yeast is used or pitched at the start of fermentation. I could be wrong of course, but every time I’ve included wb, I always get faint clove no matter pitch rate, o2, temp, etc. There definitely is something there that is similar to their yeast profile, but not the same level of esters they are producing. I get slight melon, fruity bubblegum but it’s very faint. Maybe I’m just super sensitive to clove? One variable I haven’t tried is excluding yeast nutrient. Thoughts on why they would even include hefe yeast in the first place? They probably weren’t using it for Julius back in the day, so why include it in their process? Thinking out loud here.

 

[brewpharm Hill]

Back to the yeast.. after drinking various TH for almost a month now and tasting my experiments with the copoitched yeast trio, I’m still not convinced the hefe yeast is used or pitched at the start of fermentation. I could be wrong of course, but every time I’ve included wb, I always get faint clove no matter pitch rate, o2, temp, etc. There definitely is something there that is similar to their yeast profile, but not the same level of esters they are producing. I get slight melon, fruity bubblegum but it’s very faint. Maybe I’m just super sensitive to clove? One variable I haven’t tried is excluding yeast nutrient. Thoughts on why they would even include hefe yeast in the first place? They probably weren’t using it for Julius back in the day, so why include it in their process? Thinking out loud here.

I believe @robopp said he has had the best results when skipping aeration AND yeast nutrient. Yeast nutrient can influence different enzymatic pathways that ultimately lead to different end products of esters, sulfurs, phenols etc (http://scottjanish.com/esters-and-fusel-alcohols/). Maybe yeast nutrient and aeration favors phenol production in a POF+ strain like that? I haven't read too much into it, but I know that the amino compounds coming from yeast nutrient can influence their production. Maybe some of the biologists in this thread can speak more specifically to it. I would imagine it is also strain dependent...not to mention this is dry yeast we are talking about too.

As to why hefe and belgian strains ended up in an american IPA, my only guess would be to take advantage of their fruity potential? I'd love to know as well how Nate eventually came to this.

 

[robopp]

Back to the yeast.. after drinking various TH for almost a month now and tasting my experiments with the copoitched yeast trio, I’m still not convinced the hefe yeast is used or pitched at the start of fermentation. I could be wrong of course, but every time I’ve included wb, I always get faint clove no matter pitch rate, o2, temp, etc. There definitely is something there that is similar to their yeast profile, but not the same level of esters they are producing. I get slight melon, fruity bubblegum but it’s very faint. Maybe I’m just super sensitive to clove? One variable I haven’t tried is excluding yeast nutrient. Thoughts on why they would even include hefe yeast in the first place? They probably weren’t using it for Julius back in the day, so why include it in their process? Thinking out loud here.

Have you tried pitching without aerating or rehydration? I was really struggling with the amount of clove I was getting until I stopped doing these two things. Also, having a very accurate gram scale is absolutely necessary.

 

[NJGeorge]

Yes no rehydration or aerating. I’ve also been using a very accurate gram scale since the start of this thread.

 

[brewpharm Hill]

@NJGeorge what does your process look like outside of rehydration, aeration, and the pitching rate?

What kind of yeast nutrient and how much? Grain bill? Fermentation temperatures and timelines?

 

[robopp]

Yes no rehydration or aerating. I’ve also been using a very accurate gram scale since the start of this thread.

And you’re getting clove? I probably have a little, but so does TH. By a little I mean you have to be looking for it.

 

[robopp]

Yes no rehydration or aerating. I’ve also been using a very accurate gram scale since the start of this thread.

Also, did you follow my pitching rate? I think you pointed out that I’m over pitching my 3g batch.

 

[NJGeorge]

Been keeping things very simple. 150-155 mash for 60 min. pale malt and carapils. Boil for an hour chill to 75, pitch dry yeast and after 24 hours cool to around 63 for the remainder. Will have to check my notes but been using .5 to 1 tsp of bsg superfood for 3-4 gallons 15 min left in boil.

 

[NJGeorge]

Also, did you follow my pitching rate? I think you pointed out that I’m over pitching my 3g batch.

I pitched 7grams total for 3 or 4 gallons. Need to check notes. Trying to follow the suggested pitch amount on the packet. So I may have underpitched. I’ll give it another shot soon with your rate at three gallons. I believe it was like 9grams total?

 

[The_Dirty_Spring]

...Boil for an hour chill to 75, pitch dry yeast and after 24 hours cool to around 63 for the remainder...

Remind me, what is the origin of everyone pitching warm? Does anyone have evidence that is going to amp esters but not phenols? My latest attempt has so far the least (almost zero) clove after one day crash/carbing—this is first time I pitched at 64 instead of 72. Held 64-66 before rising up to 70 to finish. This was also my lowest ratios of the exotic yeasts (3.9% T58 and 1.6% WB06). I expect that slight clove will fade away entirely after crashed and carbed, as (mostly) happened in prior batches that ultimately came out very nicely. But that pitching warm thing—possibly a contributor to phenolics?

 

[tld6008]

Remind me, what is the origin of everyone pitching warm? Does anyone have evidence that is going to amp esters but not phenols? My latest attempt has so far the least (almost zero) clove after one day crash/carbing—this is first time I pitched at 64 instead of 72. Held 64-66 before rising up to 70 to finish. This was also my lowest ratios of the exotic yeasts (3.9% T58 and 1.6% WB06). I expect that slight clove will fade away entirely after crashed and carbed, as (mostly) happened in prior batches that ultimately came out very nicely. But that pitching warm thing—possibly a contributor to phenolics?

This is a question regarding Yeast Bite (new term?) I kegged my 4th 5gal. batch of Julius clone (per MarshallBs recipe) just over 2 weeks ago and it is exhibiting an objectionable yeast taste which was not present in the other runs at this time post kegging. I remember the others had a hop bite for a week but after that passed they were great. I did two thing differently, I used my tap water after filtering and after getting a lab report on it, it was adjusted per the recipe same as previous RO water batches and I let the fermentation run a full 24 hrs at 72f before lowering to 64. Previously I pitched at 72 then when it kicked off I would start lowering it. This really has me stumped and would like to hear your thoughts. Maybe just waiting will be the cure but I WANT TO DRINK IT!

 

[robopp]

I pitched 7grams total for 3 or 4 gallons. Need to check notes. Trying to follow the suggested pitch amount on the packet. So I may have underpitched. I’ll give it another shot soon with your rate at three gallons. I believe it was like 9grams total?

Correct. My 3 gallon pitch rate is as follows:
S04/T58/WB06
8.28g/.45g/.27g

 

[elgee]

I recently went to TH and while waiting in line, I did my best to look at the brew and fermentation area. It’s insane how clean and nothing is left out. I couldn’t see anything with regard to hops or yeast. Most breweries I have been to, at least have hop bags hanging around. Nate must be a clean fanatic besides being one to hold all he secrets.

 

[NJGeorge]

Correct. My 3 gallon pitch rate is as follows:
S04/T58/WB06
8.28g/.45g/.27g

Which Malts have you been using?

 

[echoALEia]

Sorry if this is long winded, I’ve been wanting to post this for a while.

For the past 8-9 months, I’ve applied a lot of the ideas on this thread to my NEIPAs. I’ve tried the Trinity co pitch (correctly measured) multiple times with satisfactory results compared to a single LAIII or barbarian pitch with dry hopping early. I’ve gotten the treehouse (Monson era) flavor, aroma, and mouthfeel spot on only twice and it lasted only for a day, but it was insanely amazing - think juicy fruit bubblegum, creamy orange juice, and freshly baked bread (I know some don’t get that from TH, but I did on the fresh Julius cans from Monson). I’m sure I could name a million more.

Here’s basically what I did for the first batch that was dead on. The grist was about 70% Rahr 2 row, 14% carafoam, 7% Vienna, 6% Munich, and 3% Acid malt and hopped with Cashmere and Amarillo. I honestly don’t think the recipe is super important, but I can post it later when I get home. To me these beers are mostly about process. Recently I built myself a small hop cannon made out of an old corny keg with a 1.5” triclamp valve at the bottom to inject my dry hops with a fresh fermenting spiese (I forget how to spell it, sorry) under pressure for a 1bbl Unitank (I’m the Brewer for a small nano brewery). I should note that the spiese was left over wort I collected from the sparge and stuck right in the refrigerator until I was ready to dry hop. I’m sure this can be done with dme, I was just really looking for a way to minimize volume with dry hopping.

I fermented with S-04 starting at 64 F for 24 hours, bought it up to 66 for about 3 days, then turned off all temperature control until fermentation was complete and chilled to 59 F to drop the yeast. I didn’t dry hop at all during this time or ferment under pressure. After primary fermentation was complete, I prepared my hop cannon (about 4 gallons of boiled and cooled wort) with a blend of T-58 and WB06 and let it sit at 75 F for 12 hours before adding my dry hops (64oz of cashmere and Amarillo for a 35 gallon batch). I should add, the aroma opening the keg was of freshly baked bread - very satisfying. I then added the dry hops and agitated the hell out of it.

Next was shooting everything through the 1.5” tc bottom port. I have to say, this was fun as hell. I hooked the keg up to gas at 30psi then opened the valves. BOOM! I guess that reason they call it a hop cannon. I decided now was a good time to take a sample - and I wasn’t really expecting much at all - but was I wrong. This was my “AH-HA” moment in brewing. It tasted amazing - just like Julius at Monson! The next day I took a sample and the flavor definitely changed. Damn. Still good enjoyable but not nearly as smooth.

Now that I knew I was close I did a 2nd attempt - this time adding Citra hops to the recipe and F2 (thinking it would stop other yeast activity and preserve the flavor) to the hop cannon right before I injected it into the unitank. Same smoothness and flavor but with a Citra kick - heaven. Unfortunately - it took was a different beast 24 hours later. Good - but not an orgasm in your mouth


So - Any thoughts? How do we keep that flavor right after dry hopping? Maybe they use one of the Alhop systems where it recirculates the hops to get full saturation?

 

[echoALEia]

Did it again today with Sabro, Galaxy, and Citra!

 

[Fano]

View attachment 632144

Did it again today with Sabro, Galaxy, and Citra!

How did it come out?
I have been having the same results as you, first day on point and than after not the same. The beer is still good but not as good as the first day

 

[leesmith]

Sorry if this is long winded, I’ve been wanting to post this for a while.

For the past 8-9 months, I’ve applied a lot of the ideas on this thread to my NEIPAs. I’ve tried the Trinity co pitch (correctly measured) multiple times with satisfactory results compared to a single LAIII or barbarian pitch with dry hopping early. I’ve gotten the treehouse (Monson era) flavor, aroma, and mouthfeel spot on only twice and it lasted only for a day, but it was insanely amazing - think juicy fruit bubblegum, creamy orange juice, and freshly baked bread (I know some don’t get that from TH, but I did on the fresh Julius cans from Monson). I’m sure I could name a million more.

Here’s basically what I did for the first batch that was dead on. The grist was about 70% Rahr 2 row, 14% carafoam, 7% Vienna, 6% Munich, and 3% Acid malt and hopped with Cashmere and Amarillo. I honestly don’t think the recipe is super important, but I can post it later when I get home. To me these beers are mostly about process. Recently I built myself a small hop cannon made out of an old corny keg with a 1.5” triclamp valve at the bottom to inject my dry hops with a fresh fermenting spiese (I forget how to spell it, sorry) under pressure for a 1bbl Unitank (I’m the Brewer for a small nano brewery). I should note that the spiese was left over wort I collected from the sparge and stuck right in the refrigerator until I was ready to dry hop. I’m sure this can be done with dme, I was just really looking for a way to minimize volume with dry hopping.

I fermented with S-04 starting at 64 F for 24 hours, bought it up to 66 for about 3 days, then turned off all temperature control until fermentation was complete and chilled to 59 F to drop the yeast. I didn’t dry hop at all during this time or ferment under pressure. After primary fermentation was complete, I prepared my hop cannon (about 4 gallons of boiled and cooled wort) with a blend of T-58 and WB06 and let it sit at 75 F for 12 hours before adding my dry hops (64oz of cashmere and Amarillo for a 35 gallon batch). I should add, the aroma opening the keg was of freshly baked bread - very satisfying. I then added the dry hops and agitated the hell out of it.

Next was shooting everything through the 1.5” tc bottom port. I have to say, this was fun as hell. I hooked the keg up to gas at 30psi then opened the valves. BOOM! I guess that reason they call it a hop cannon. I decided now was a good time to take a sample - and I wasn’t really expecting much at all - but was I wrong. This was my “AH-HA” moment in brewing. It tasted amazing - just like Julius at Monson! The next day I took a sample and the flavor definitely changed. Damn. Still good enjoyable but not nearly as smooth.

Now that I knew I was close I did a 2nd attempt - this time adding Citra hops to the recipe and F2 (thinking it would stop other yeast activity and preserve the flavor) to the hop cannon right before I injected it into the unitank. Same smoothness and flavor but with a Citra kick - heaven. Unfortunately - it took was a different beast 24 hours later. Good - but not an orgasm in your mouth


So - Any thoughts? How do we keep that flavor right after dry hopping? Maybe they use one of the Alhop systems where it recirculates the hops to get full saturation?

Not hoppy enough?
Add more.

 

[beervoid]

Sorry if this is long winded, I’ve been wanting to post this for a while.

For the past 8-9 months, I’ve applied a lot of the ideas on this thread to my NEIPAs. I’ve tried the Trinity co pitch (correctly measured) multiple times with satisfactory results compared to a single LAIII or barbarian pitch with dry hopping early. I’ve gotten the treehouse (Monson era) flavor, aroma, and mouthfeel spot on only twice and it lasted only for a day, but it was insanely amazing - think juicy fruit bubblegum, creamy orange juice, and freshly baked bread (I know some don’t get that from TH, but I did on the fresh Julius cans from Monson). I’m sure I could name a million more.

Here’s basically what I did for the first batch that was dead on. The grist was about 70% Rahr 2 row, 14% carafoam, 7% Vienna, 6% Munich, and 3% Acid malt and hopped with Cashmere and Amarillo. I honestly don’t think the recipe is super important, but I can post it later when I get home. To me these beers are mostly about process. Recently I built myself a small hop cannon made out of an old corny keg with a 1.5” triclamp valve at the bottom to inject my dry hops with a fresh fermenting spiese (I forget how to spell it, sorry) under pressure for a 1bbl Unitank (I’m the Brewer for a small nano brewery). I should note that the spiese was left over wort I collected from the sparge and stuck right in the refrigerator until I was ready to dry hop. I’m sure this can be done with dme, I was just really looking for a way to minimize volume with dry hopping.

I fermented with S-04 starting at 64 F for 24 hours, bought it up to 66 for about 3 days, then turned off all temperature control until fermentation was complete and chilled to 59 F to drop the yeast. I didn’t dry hop at all during this time or ferment under pressure. After primary fermentation was complete, I prepared my hop cannon (about 4 gallons of boiled and cooled wort) with a blend of T-58 and WB06 and let it sit at 75 F for 12 hours before adding my dry hops (64oz of cashmere and Amarillo for a 35 gallon batch). I should add, the aroma opening the keg was of freshly baked bread - very satisfying. I then added the dry hops and agitated the hell out of it.

Next was shooting everything through the 1.5” tc bottom port. I have to say, this was fun as hell. I hooked the keg up to gas at 30psi then opened the valves. BOOM! I guess that reason they call it a hop cannon. I decided now was a good time to take a sample - and I wasn’t really expecting much at all - but was I wrong. This was my “AH-HA” moment in brewing. It tasted amazing - just like Julius at Monson! The next day I took a sample and the flavor definitely changed. Damn. Still good enjoyable but not nearly as smooth.

Now that I knew I was close I did a 2nd attempt - this time adding Citra hops to the recipe and F2 (thinking it would stop other yeast activity and preserve the flavor) to the hop cannon right before I injected it into the unitank. Same smoothness and flavor but with a Citra kick - heaven. Unfortunately - it took was a different beast 24 hours later. Good - but not an orgasm in your mouth


So - Any thoughts? How do we keep that flavor right after dry hopping? Maybe they use one of the Alhop systems where it recirculates the hops to get full saturation?

Do you have a thread on the DIY hopgun build? Would be great to see some pics and more info.

On the flavor aspect. How do you make sure the hopgun is 100% without any oxygen? Do you let the fermentation co2 purge it? If so did you calculate if there is enough co2 being produced from fermentation to purge the whole keg in such short time?

Perhaps oxygen being the reason the flavor fades out fast but my guess you are loosing more because you are injecting still active yeast its pulling out flavors when crashing.

You could try and let hopgun keg ferment out. Crash and dump the hops and yeast. Then inject it into the main batch.

 

[leesmith]

Do you have a thread on the DIY hopgun build? Would be great to see some pics and more info.

On the flavor aspect. How do you make sure the hopgun is 100% without any oxygen? Do you let the fermentation co2 purge it? If so did you calculate if there is enough co2 being produced from fermentation to purge the whole keg in such short time?

Perhaps oxygen being the reason the flavor fades out fast but my guess you are loosing more because you are injecting still active yeast its pulling out flavors when crashing.

You could try and let hopgun keg ferment out. Crash and dump the hops and yeast. Then inject it into the main batch.

One thing to think about is that most conicals are not rated for 30psi.

Does he open a top vent to allow pressure to escape? Or the PRV?

 

[stickyfinger]

http://brulosophy.com/2019/06/24/investigating-the-dry-hop-saturation-point-exbeeriment-results/

 

[stickyfinger]

I did an IPA yesterday and it is fermenting along pleasantly as I type. I did a split batch, both identical so far, both in corny kegs. I think I'd like to do a biotransformation/fermentation-dryhop vs cold crash-dryhop exbeeriment with it. For those of you who add biotransformation/fermentation dry hops, do you have strong feelings about the best time to add them? I've done day 2 to like day 5-6 and I'm not sure what difference it made.

So, one will get like 1.33 oz/gal of T90 pellets on day 2-6 sometime, and one will get 1.33 oz/gal of T90 pellets after a soft crash to 60F for two days. I was tempted to do a fermentation dry hop in both and then do some soft crash dry hops in the second one only, but maybe I should do this first as a better comparison.

I swear that my first two IPAs I've used soft-crash dry hopping with have the most amazing mouthfeel and head retention I have ever seen in an IPA!!! Have others experienced this? It's only n=1 on the wort composition, as it was a split batch, but I doubt it was my malt bill...

 

[beervoid]

I did an IPA yesterday and it is fermenting along pleasantly as I type. I did a split batch, both identical so far, both in corny kegs. I think I'd like to do a biotransformation/fermentation-dryhop vs cold crash-dryhop exbeeriment with it. For those of you who add biotransformation/fermentation dry hops, do you have strong feelings about the best time to add them? I've done day 2 to like day 5-6 and I'm not sure what difference it made.

So, one will get like 1.33 oz/gal of T90 pellets on day 2-6 sometime, and one will get 1.33 oz/gal of T90 pellets after a soft crash to 60F for two days. I was tempted to do a fermentation dry hop in both and then do some soft crash dry hops in the second one only, but maybe I should do this first as a better comparison.

I swear that my first two IPAs I've used soft-crash dry hopping with have the most amazing mouthfeel and head retention I have ever seen in an IPA!!! Have others experienced this? It's only n=1 on the wort composition, as it was a split batch, but I doubt it was my malt bill...

I would do it as late in fermentation as possible to negate aroma loss, still plenty biotransformation will happen whatever that is. Also your yeast will be happier not being disturbed by hops.

 

[couchsending]

I would do it as late in fermentation as possible to negate aroma loss, still plenty biotransformation will happen whatever that is. Also your yeast will be happier not being disturbed by hops.

This

If you’re gonna do it wait until the tail end of fermentation.

 

[echoALEia]

How did it come out?
I have been having the same results as you, first day on point and than after not the same. The beer is still good but not as good as the first day

Great! The flavor held into the second day. I haven’t tried it again but will tomorrow so I’ll let you know.

 

[echoALEia]

Do you have a thread on the DIY hopgun build? Would be great to see some pics and more info.

On the flavor aspect. How do you make sure the hopgun is 100% without any oxygen? Do you let the fermentation co2 purge it? If so did you calculate if there is enough co2 being produced from fermentation to purge the whole keg in such short time?

Perhaps oxygen being the reason the flavor fades out fast but my guess you are loosing more because you are injecting still active yeast its pulling out flavors when crashing.

You could try and let hopgun keg ferment out. Crash and dump the hops and yeast. Then inject it into the main batch.

I don’t have a thread on it but I can post more pictures.

It’s basically just a corny keg with a hole drilled in the bottom for 1.5” triclamp ferrule then I had a friend tig weld it on so I could attach the valve you see at the bottom. Ideally, it would be made out of something with a conical bottom, but the was the cheapest option for me now.

The beer doesn’t seem oxidized to me. The color didn’t change and I didn’t get that burnt caramel flavor you get from oxidized NEIPAs. I purged the tubing from the hop cannon to the unitank well.

I wait about 12-18 hours before I add the dry hops to the cannon, then another hour or 2 before I inject them. I was leaning more towards what you said about the still active yeast and the crashing.

 

[brewpharm Hill]

When it comes to the biotransformation hops I've had better results doing day 4 or 5 (day 3 only if the fermentation REALLY took off and is ahead of schedule) when doing a single dry hop. There is less yeast in suspension to bind hop oils and such that will just drop them out and there is less activity to blow off aroma.

Doing a 0.5 oz keg works very well to get back whatever you may have lost during fermentation. Nate has said that the majority of their core line up is single hopped, which would lead me to think that the later side of active fermentation is what they're doing. Or maybe not? Maybe they're doing day 3 and doing a small second dry hop, but ****ing with us

 

[tld6008]

I did an IPA yesterday and it is fermenting along pleasantly as I type. I did a split batch, both identical so far, both in corny kegs. I think I'd like to do a biotransformation/fermentation-dryhop vs cold crash-dryhop exbeeriment with it. For those of you who add biotransformation/fermentation dry hops, do you have strong feelings about the best time to add them? I've done day 2 to like day 5-6 and I'm not sure what difference it made.

So, one will get like 1.33 oz/gal of T90 pellets on day 2-6 sometime, and one will get 1.33 oz/gal of T90 pellets after a soft crash to 60F for two days. I was tempted to do a fermentation dry hop in both and then do some soft crash dry hops in the second one only, but maybe I should do this first as a better comparison.

I swear that my first two IPAs I've used soft-crash dry hopping with have the most amazing mouthfeel and head retention I have ever seen in an IPA!!! Have others experienced this? It's only n=1 on the wort composition, as it was a split batch, but I doubt it was my malt bill...

n=1????

 

[stickyfinger]

I've only done this malt bill once, so it may have contributed to the foam and mouthfeel, but I think it was the dry hop. The galaxy version in particular is SUPER foamy!

n=1????

 

[tld6008]

I've only done this malt bill once, so it may have contributed to the foam and mouthfeel, but I think it was the dry hop. The galaxy version in particular is SUPER foamy!

I am asking what does n=1 mean?

 

[isomerization]

I am asking what does n=1 mean?

Has not been replicated, basically a warning statement.

N usually stands for number, so n=1 is a common phrase to say that something has been performed once.

 

[tld6008]

Has not been replicated, basically a warning statement.

N usually stands for number, so n=1 is a common phrase to say that something has been performed once.

Thanks, I wonder if Stickyfinger knew that

 

[kmarkstevens]

Discovered my summer reading list...thanks for 78 pages

 

[duelerx]

Sorry if this is long winded, I’ve been wanting to post this for a while.

For the past 8-9 months, I’ve applied a lot of the ideas on this thread to my NEIPAs. I’ve tried the Trinity co pitch (correctly measured) multiple times with satisfactory results compared to a single LAIII or barbarian pitch with dry hopping early. I’ve gotten the treehouse (Monson era) flavor, aroma, and mouthfeel spot on only twice and it lasted only for a day, but it was insanely amazing - think juicy fruit bubblegum, creamy orange juice, and freshly baked bread (I know some don’t get that from TH, but I did on the fresh Julius cans from Monson). I’m sure I could name a million more.

Here’s basically what I did for the first batch that was dead on. The grist was about 70% Rahr 2 row, 14% carafoam, 7% Vienna, 6% Munich, and 3% Acid malt and hopped with Cashmere and Amarillo. I honestly don’t think the recipe is super important, but I can post it later when I get home. To me these beers are mostly about process. Recently I built myself a small hop cannon made out of an old corny keg with a 1.5” triclamp valve at the bottom to inject my dry hops with a fresh fermenting spiese (I forget how to spell it, sorry) under pressure for a 1bbl Unitank (I’m the Brewer for a small nano brewery). I should note that the spiese was left over wort I collected from the sparge and stuck right in the refrigerator until I was ready to dry hop. I’m sure this can be done with dme, I was just really looking for a way to minimize volume with dry hopping.

I fermented with S-04 starting at 64 F for 24 hours, bought it up to 66 for about 3 days, then turned off all temperature control until fermentation was complete and chilled to 59 F to drop the yeast. I didn’t dry hop at all during this time or ferment under pressure. After primary fermentation was complete, I prepared my hop cannon (about 4 gallons of boiled and cooled wort) with a blend of T-58 and WB06 and let it sit at 75 F for 12 hours before adding my dry hops (64oz of cashmere and Amarillo for a 35 gallon batch). I should add, the aroma opening the keg was of freshly baked bread - very satisfying. I then added the dry hops and agitated the hell out of it.

Next was shooting everything through the 1.5” tc bottom port. I have to say, this was fun as hell. I hooked the keg up to gas at 30psi then opened the valves. BOOM! I guess that reason they call it a hop cannon. I decided now was a good time to take a sample - and I wasn’t really expecting much at all - but was I wrong. This was my “AH-HA” moment in brewing. It tasted amazing - just like Julius at Monson! The next day I took a sample and the flavor definitely changed. Damn. Still good enjoyable but not nearly as smooth.

Now that I knew I was close I did a 2nd attempt - this time adding Citra hops to the recipe and F2 (thinking it would stop other yeast activity and preserve the flavor) to the hop cannon right before I injected it into the unitank. Same smoothness and flavor but with a Citra kick - heaven. Unfortunately - it took was a different beast 24 hours later. Good - but not an orgasm in your mouth


So - Any thoughts? How do we keep that flavor right after dry hopping? Maybe they use one of the Alhop systems where it recirculates the hops to get full saturation?

Great finding!. How many grams did you add of T-58 and WB06 for your hop cannon?

 

[mikeroesoft]

Sorry if this is long winded, I’ve been wanting to post this for a while.

For the past 8-9 months, I’ve applied a lot of the ideas on this thread to my NEIPAs. I’ve tried the Trinity co pitch (correctly measured) multiple times with satisfactory results compared to a single LAIII or barbarian pitch with dry hopping early. I’ve gotten the treehouse (Monson era) flavor, aroma, and mouthfeel spot on only twice and it lasted only for a day, but it was insanely amazing - think juicy fruit bubblegum, creamy orange juice, and freshly baked bread (I know some don’t get that from TH, but I did on the fresh Julius cans from Monson). I’m sure I could name a million more.

Here’s basically what I did for the first batch that was dead on. The grist was about 70% Rahr 2 row, 14% carafoam, 7% Vienna, 6% Munich, and 3% Acid malt and hopped with Cashmere and Amarillo. I honestly don’t think the recipe is super important, but I can post it later when I get home. To me these beers are mostly about process. Recently I built myself a small hop cannon made out of an old corny keg with a 1.5” triclamp valve at the bottom to inject my dry hops with a fresh fermenting spiese (I forget how to spell it, sorry) under pressure for a 1bbl Unitank (I’m the Brewer for a small nano brewery). I should note that the spiese was left over wort I collected from the sparge and stuck right in the refrigerator until I was ready to dry hop. I’m sure this can be done with dme, I was just really looking for a way to minimize volume with dry hopping.

I fermented with S-04 starting at 64 F for 24 hours, bought it up to 66 for about 3 days, then turned off all temperature control until fermentation was complete and chilled to 59 F to drop the yeast. I didn’t dry hop at all during this time or ferment under pressure. After primary fermentation was complete, I prepared my hop cannon (about 4 gallons of boiled and cooled wort) with a blend of T-58 and WB06 and let it sit at 75 F for 12 hours before adding my dry hops (64oz of cashmere and Amarillo for a 35 gallon batch). I should add, the aroma opening the keg was of freshly baked bread - very satisfying. I then added the dry hops and agitated the hell out of it.

Next was shooting everything through the 1.5” tc bottom port. I have to say, this was fun as hell. I hooked the keg up to gas at 30psi then opened the valves. BOOM! I guess that reason they call it a hop cannon. I decided now was a good time to take a sample - and I wasn’t really expecting much at all - but was I wrong. This was my “AH-HA” moment in brewing. It tasted amazing - just like Julius at Monson! The next day I took a sample and the flavor definitely changed. Damn. Still good enjoyable but not nearly as smooth.

Now that I knew I was close I did a 2nd attempt - this time adding Citra hops to the recipe and F2 (thinking it would stop other yeast activity and preserve the flavor) to the hop cannon right before I injected it into the unitank. Same smoothness and flavor but with a Citra kick - heaven. Unfortunately - it took was a different beast 24 hours later. Good - but not an orgasm in your mouth


So - Any thoughts? How do we keep that flavor right after dry hopping? Maybe they use one of the Alhop systems where it recirculates the hops to get full saturation?

I’m able to get that flavour (I think it’s actually sweetness from sugars in the hops that enhances the hop flavours) to stick around by dry hopping in the keg after the beer has been cooled and is in the process of carbonating.

 

[beervoid]

I’m able to get that flavour (I think it’s actually sweetness from sugars in the hops that enhances the hop flavours) to stick around by dry hopping in the keg after the beer has been cooled and is in the process of carbonating.

I would argue its not the sugars in hops but rather the "unreleased" sugars from the non existent hop creep.