Is two row and pale malt the same thing?

[EyePeeAye]

I'm starting to move into all grain brewing and I see recipes calling for Pale Malt (2 Row), and others for just 2 Row. Are those the same thing?

 

[TyTanium]

No. Close, but very different.

Pale Ale malt is 2-row kilned at a slightly higher temp. Richer, maltier, breadier flavor.

http://brewingwithbriess.com/Products/Base.htm

 

[vmaxinid]

2-Row Malt (1.8-2.2°L)
Popular base malt, perfect for all beer styles, especially American ales and lagers. With moderate protein and enzyme levels and a very clean, smooth finish, 2-Row Malt is ideal for all-malt beers and for mashes containing moderate levels of adjunct.

Pale Ale Malt (2.6-3.0°L)
A slightly darker base malt than Premium 2-Row, Pale Ale Malt is produced from well-modified, 2-Row barley, with a kilning regimen based on traditional British Pale Ale malting practices. Contributes a malty complexity to beer flavor and aroma. Excellent in American Pale Ales and American versions of British beer styles.

 

[EyePeeAye]

Thanks for your quick answer!

So, when a recipe says "11lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM)" - I could get away with either one? or it's telling me pale is preferred?

 

[Revvy]

Tytanium you're getting Pale ALE malt and Pale Malt (2-row) mixed up.

Traditionally the terms Pale Malt, and Pale Malt (2-row) are used interchangably. They are the same thing.

 

[EyePeeAye]

Tytanium you're getting Pale ALE malt and Pale Malt (2-row) mixed up.

Traditionally the terms Pale Malt, and Pale Malt (2-row) are used interchangably. They are the same thing.

thanks revvy, you rock.

 

[Revvy]

vmaxinid, you're doing it as well. Pale ALE malt, and Pale Malt (2-row) are not the same designations.

Pale Malt (2-row) [usually with the words 2-row in brackets, IS just another name for standard 2-row]

 

[EyePeeAye]

seems like it's pretty easy to mix up - which is probably why people seem to simply call it "two row"

 

[Revvy]

For example Breiss sells both Pale Malt (2-row) and Pale ALE malt- And their distinction between the two is explained in the description for Pale ALE malt.

This malt is a less expensive alternative to British or Belgian pale ale malt. Slightly darker version of the Briess 2-row, comparable performance suited for any ale. Suitable when rich, malty flavors and additional color is desired.

 

[TyTanium]

Good points Revvy.

I've often seen people say Pale Malt (2-row) but intend to mean Pale Ale malt. That is to say, it's often used inconsistently and/or incorrectly.

So to the OP, check your recipe and make sure you know what it calls for and what you're getting.

 

[Revvy]

seems like it's pretty easy to mix up - which is probably why people seem to simply call it "two row"

Yeah, but I don't think I've ever seen a recipe calling for Pale ALE malt ever.

 

[Revvy]

Good points Revvy.

I've often seen people say Pale Malt (2-row) but intend to mean Pale Ale malt. That is to say, it's often used inconsistently and/or incorrectly.

So to the OP, check your recipe and make sure you know what it calls for and what you're getting.

It looks like the ppg of the two are so similar as to be nearly interchangable. Only a couple tenths of a point. The biggest diff is the SRMS.

 

[vmaxinid]

vmaxinid, you're doing it as well. Pale ALE malt, and Pale Malt (2-row) are not the same designations.

Pale Malt (2-row) [usually with the words 2-row in brackets, IS just another name for standard 2-row]

Not to be rude, but you better tell Great Western Malting they have it wrong.

http://www.countrymaltgroup.com/greatwestern.asp

help me understand.

If it helps us, I can post a current local full analysis of local malt, both pale and 2-Row from a local malting house. (Not just the one on the website.) Maybe by Monday.

 

[Revvy]

Not to be rude, but you better tell Great Western Malting they have it wrong.

http://www.countrymaltgroup.com/greatwestern.asp

help me understand.

If it helps us, I can post a current local full analysis of local malt, both pale and 2-Row from a local malting house. (Not just the one on the website.) Maybe by Monday.

You're again pointing to Pale ALE Malt and 2 row, which is often designated as Pale Malt (2-row) in many recipes, by Briess even on many software.

Again Pale ALE Malt and PALE Malt (2-row) are two different things, no one's disputing that fact.

The "terms" 2-row and Pale Malt (2-row) which the op was asking ARE the same thing, they are commonly used interchangably.

 

[vmaxinid]

You're again pointing to Pale ALE Malt and 2 row, which is often designated as Pale Malt (2-row) in many recipes, by Briess even on many software.

Again Pale ALE Malt and PALE Malt (2-row) are two different things, no one's disputing that fact.

The "terms" 2-row and Pale Malt (2-row) which the op was asking ARE the same thing, they are commonly used interchangably.

Did you go to the link and read? your argument is with the malt producer. You are saying the people that make the malt are wrong?

Not picking a fight, just help me understand how they are wrong (Great Western Malting.)

I do understand that "Pale malt", or "Pale ale malt" is made of 2-row malt. And that "base" or "premium" malt is made also of 2-row malt.

 

[broadbill]

Did you go to the link and read? your argument is with the malt producer. You are saying the people that make the malt are wrong?

Not picking a fight, just help me understand how they are wrong (Great Western Malting.)

I do understand that "Pale malt", or "Pale ale malt" is made of 2-row malt. And that "base" or "premium" malt is made also of 2-row malt.

What are you looking at on GW website that makes you think that what Revvy is saying is wrong? Based on what I'm reading, it sounds that both Revvy and GW are on the same page.

 

[Demon]

Did you go to the link and read? your argument is with the malt producer. You are saying the people that make the malt are wrong?

Not picking a fight, just help me understand how they are wrong (Great Western Malting.)

I do understand that "Pale malt", or "Pale ale malt" is made of 2-row malt. And that "base" or "premium" malt is made also of 2-row malt.

Your link actually proves Revvys point. Pale Ale Malt and 2-row are separate products.

 

[TyTanium]

what are you looking at on gw website that makes you think that what revvy is saying is wrong? Based on what i'm reading, it sounds that both revvy and gw are on the same page.

+1

 

[vmaxinid]

Via Briess:

2-Row Brewers Malt
Lovibond-1.8
Flavor-Clean,sweet,mild malty
Unique Characteristics/Applications-
DP 140.
Base malt for all beer styles.
Contributes light straw color.
Slightly higher yield than 6-Row Malt.
Slightly lower protein than 6-Row Malt.
Malted in small batches, making it an excellent fit for small batch craft brewing.


Pale Ale Malt
Lovibond- 3.5
Flavor-Rich malt flavor,
hints of biscuit
and nutlike
flavors
Unique Characteristics/Applications-
DP 85. Use as a rich malty 2-Row base malt.
Contributes golden color.
A fully modified, high extract, low protein malt.
Not just a darker 2-Row Base Malt. Its very unique recipe results in the development of a very unique flavor.
Sufficient enzymes to suport the inclusion of event he most demanding specialty malts without extending the brewing cycle.


So in conclusion, the term "Pale Malt" is only slang and is used to describe basic 2-row "brewers" or "premium" malt. no one makes anything called "Pale Malt."

right??

Not to be confused with the malt known as "Pale Ale Malt"

 

[Revvy]

I don't know how to say it any clearer.

If you are looking at a recipe that says Pale Malt (2-row) or says Two-row or 2-row, they are talking about your basic 2 row malt. Those three terms are typically used interchangably.

If you see the words Pale ALE Malt in a recipe, they are referring to a subset of Pale Malt, that is 2-row, but has a slightly different .ppg and is DARKER than basic Pale Malt (2-row).

That malt is usually used in make the style of beer known as a Pale Ale...THOUGH many Pale Ales are made with Pale Malt (2-row.)

I think because of this confusion many places are calling it Brewer's Malt (2-row) these days. But if you see "Pale Malt (2-row)" they are NOT referring to Pale ALE Malt.

 

[vmaxinid]

ok think I got it.


brewers malt= premium malt= base malt= made from 2-row.

Pale ALE Malt= it's own kind of malt, made from 2-row.

Pale malt or Base Malt= a non industry term used to describe (brewers malt, premium malt) or what ever the company that makes it calls it.= made from 2-row

no?

Now who back in the day started calling basic, 2-row brewers malt, "pale"

 

[vmaxinid]

Thank you for the clarification Revvy.

I live in a house where only technical terms are used for malt explanation.

In all our conversations the term "Pale Malt" never came up. only Pale Ale Malt.

 

[mr_bell]

Thank you for the clarification Revvy.

I live in a house where only technical terms are used for malt explanation.

In all our conversations the term "Pale Malt" never came up. only Pale Ale Malt.

A house full of brewers?

 

[ao125]

Pale ALE malt sounds kinda (but not exactly) like Maris Otter

 

[homebrewdad]

Pale ALE malt sounds kinda (but not exactly) like Maris Otter

You are correct. It's basically supposed to be an American version of Maris Otter.

 

[broadbill]

TIL there is such thing as Pale Ale Malt (makes me wonder how many times I inadvertendly sub'ed in 2-row)

TIL I could sub in Pale Ale Malt for Marris Otter.

 

[vmaxinid]

A house full of brewers?

At our home:

"Pale malt" always means -> Pale Ale Malt

I just didn't realize we were leaving out the word "Ale"

"Pale" is never included in describing -> "base malt"="2-row malt"=premium malt=brewers malt.

So I was lost.....

TIL: Pale Malt is some hustler, pimp, old school homebrewin', street term for 2-row malt.

 

[Qhrumphf]

TIL there is such thing as Pale Ale Malt (makes me wonder how many times I inadvertendly sub'ed in 2-row)

TIL I could sub in Pale Ale Malt for Marris Otter.

Hmmm...can anyone speak to just how similar Pale Ale malt and Maris Otter are when it comes to flavor? I love me some MO (been using it as a base in just about everything), but it seems the Pale Ale malt is substantially cheaper. I might have to start swapping them out as well.

 

[vmaxinid]

Hmmm...can anyone speak to just how similar Pale Ale malt and Maris Otter are when it comes to flavor? I love me some MO (been using it as a base in just about everything), but it seems the Pale Ale malt is substantially cheaper. I might have to start swapping them out as well.

Secrets Out!!!

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/maris-otter-malt-vs-2-row-73206/

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/maris-otter-vs-uk-pale-ale-malt-145497/
MLKING nails it at the end

Now my head is spinning because of the way 2-row and Pale is thrown around in threads, i'm not sure if they truly mean Pale Ale Malt, or Pale Malt.

 

[Qhrumphf]

I can definitely see it get confusing. I know what I've been using, primarily domestic 2-row (NOT Pale Ale malt) for my American styles, and MO for my English/Irish/Scottish styles (although I was thinking of giving my first whack at Golden Promise in a Scottish 60/- since my LHBS started carrying it in smaller sacks than 55lb). I'd seen the American versions of Pale Ale malt around, knew it was a little different from standard 2-row, but never looked much further into it. But if it's fairly similar in flavor to MO and it's approx 25% cheaper per pound, I might have to start using it for my Brit beers.

Guess I'll have to double brew my Bitter I'm planning here in the next couple weeks. I'll do one with MO and one with Briess Pale Ale malt, and see how they stack up

 

[frazier]

OK I'm at work and going by memory but... Last summer, BYO ran an article by Jamil in which he gave his recipe for "Hoppiness is an IPA". It called for Pale Ale Malt. I remember because I looked it up, tried to grok the difference, checked it against the recipe in BCS (which just called for 2-row). So I ordered it with Pale Ale Malt, and it came out great.

I always use MO in my stouts and bitters; and Golden Promise in my Scottish Ales. GP has a bit more distinctive flavor; MO is pretty subtle (for me anyway).

Just my $0.02,
Cheers!

 

[gingerdawg]

Ok I'm confused
If I put 2-row in my brewing bucket, do I have Ale Pail malt?

 

[TyTanium]

Ok I'm confused
If I put 2-row in my brewing bucket, do I have Ale Pail malt?

Hahahahaha. Love it.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Ok I'm confused
If I put 2-row in my brewing bucket, do I have Ale Pail malt?

+1 interwebz to you

 

[ChemE]

Secrets Out!!!

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/maris-otter-malt-vs-2-row-73206/

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/maris-otter-vs-uk-pale-ale-malt-145497/
MLKING nails it at the end

Now my head is spinning because of the way 2-row and Pale is thrown around in threads, i'm not sure if they truly mean Pale Ale Malt, or Pale Malt.

In the thread I started, I [and I understood everyone else to be too] was referring to domestic 2-row malt not pale ale malt. So I was interested in comparing MO and domestic 2-row and specifically Briess 2 row pale malt (1.5L) vs. Bairds MO.

 

[Qhrumphf]

So I've had two Bitters in primary just over a week, identical in every way except the base malt. One was Crisp MO, one was Briess Pale Ale malt. I just pulled samples of each.

Keeping in mind they might not be fully mature and may change a bit, I'd say the differences are pretty stark. The MO bitter is a little darker, and the flavor difference is pretty big. The MO is good and crackery and biscuity, the Pale Ale malt more of a clean but toasty flavor (imagine white bread toast). As I suspected, they're kind of similar, but in no way would I call them interchangeable. Unless they come a little closer together after maturing a bit, I'll be sticking with my MO malt

 

[tre9er]

But if you want a little more than a plain clean malt like 2-row, Pale Ale Malt is an option to kick things up a bit. I used 60/40 on my ESB this weekend for that reason. I wanted color and some more flavor from the malt than plain 2-row would give. My 50# bag of Pale Ale Malt was under $10 difference from Maris Otter.

 

[Qhrumphf]

I was thinking the same thing, and might experiment with it in American styles. I think the malt would be great in something like a brown ale. But I don't think it's quite right for the English styles.

 

[EyePeeAye]

So I've had two Bitters in primary just over a week, identical in every way except the base malt. One was Crisp MO, one was Briess Pale Ale malt. I just pulled samples of each.

Keeping in mind they might not be fully mature and may change a bit, I'd say the differences are pretty stark. The MO bitter is a little darker, and the flavor difference is pretty big. The MO is good and crackery and biscuity, the Pale Ale malt more of a clean but toasty flavor (imagine white bread toast). As I suspected, they're kind of similar, but in no way would I call them interchangeable. Unless they come a little closer together after maturing a bit, I'll be sticking with my MO malt

The scientific method at work everybody! That's awesome that you had the capability (and desire) to test this. You're awesome.

 

[tadkays]

in conclusion, pale ale malt is darker and more flavorful than 2-row.