Is this viable for a chiller?

[p40whk]

Why not put a regular immersion chiller in a bucket of ice water and pump the wort through the chiller and back into the BK?

This seems more efficient than running cold tap water through the chiller and manually moving the chiller around the wort.

I own a small immersion chiller but am increasing my batch size and while looking to upgrade I came across the plate and counter flow chillers (which I understand) but not sure what the benefit would be over doing what I suggest above (which seems easier to make).

I couldn't find any posts like this doing searches for chillers and was wondering why it's not done this way?

 

[Minbari]

this is the principal behind a HERMs coil. totally viable idea.

 

[p40whk]

Thanks Minbari (love the B5 reference!),

I'm just starting to put together all the equipment for All Grain brewing and didn't even look into HERMs systems because I was going with a gravity system.

Guess I need to do some research on HERMs to see how I can incorporate that into my setup.

 

[trboyden]

Having tried it, the main issue is that if you use it right off the bat, the heat from the boiling hot wort melts the ice too fast and then you just have a bucket of warm water. You'd have to keep dumping the bucket and add more ice. Fine to do, but a lot of ice to go through. Works better from 100F to get down to 68F.

What I have been doing lately (due to warm summer time tap water) is run the tap water through an I/C in an ice bucket, then through another I/C in the wort. This gets the tap water temperature down to where it can create the differential needed to cool the wort quickly. Additionally I have a whirlpool going, which honestly makes the bigger difference. Get the wort moving around the I/C and you'll see your temperatures drop fast.

In my opinion, this web page discusses the issue the best: http://www.mrmalty.com/chiller.php

 

[p40whk]

I'll have to read the Mr. Malty post tonight. Thanks Trboyden

 

[trboyden]

I'll have to read the Mr. Malty post tonight. Thanks Trboyden

No problem, good luck!

Getting the wort chilled quickly has been my biggest pain point since I started brewing. I do electric BIAB and have a chest freezer setup for controlled fermentation. Those were easy compared to finding the best way to chill the wort after the boil, especially at larger volumes.

The batch before my Oktoberfest about a month ago, I did the chill overnight in the refrigerator method. That was real easy and I honestly didn't notice any difference in the final beer quality or flavor between a fast chill and that method. So really I would say do some more cooling technique research and try a couple to decide what works best for you.

 

[Minbari]

really depends on the size of the bucket too. 5 gallons of near freezing water will take some heat to warm up.

 

[trboyden]

With some complicated math you could figure out the exact time it would take, but a 5 gallon bucket full of ice is maybe a few pounds of ice and you would need 50 pounds of ice to cool boiling wort in around 20 minutes. See this post for more info:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/cooling-5-gallons-without-chiller-474194/#post6116823

Volume of ice, temperature of wort, temperature you are looking to get to, and time are all variables. As are types of materials in the various pieces of equipment being used. As a comparison, consider you only need 10 quarts of 140F water to raise the temperature of 20 quarts of 32F water to 68F instantly (using the BrewSmith Infusion Calculator).

It's not the same thing as performing a phase shift from ice to water, but basically it doesn't take long for a bucket of ice to become useless for cooling if you are continuously applying a large amount of heat to it. Now a smaller 10 - 20 degree differential, say to make tap water colder, and the ice will definitely last longer. Using the pre-chiller technique I outlined above, that 5 gallon bucket of ice lasted the whole cooling cycle of 30 minutes and was still mostly ice. The heat energy in the tap water wasn't enough to convert the ice to water.

 

[madscientist451]

I also brew inside, I just use a big galvanized washtub and ice in 2 liter soda bottles.
I only brew when the nights are chilly, like below 60. I usually do a 20-30 min whirlpool, then put the lid on and put the brewpot with wort in the washtub outside. I add ice and dump it out and refill the washtub when the chilled water gets warm. I get up early the next day, siphon into my fermenter and pitch the yeast. Using this method I can also take a quart or so of wort, chill it in a small pot using cold water in the kitchen sink, then get a starter going. I've had good results but realize my brewing is limited by the weather.
In the winter, I can get chilled wort pretty soon, I can even pack the washtub with snow if there is any.

 

[trboyden]

I also brew inside, I just use a big galvanized washtub and ice in 2 liter soda bottles.
I only brew when the nights are chilly, like below 60. I usually do a 20-30 min whirlpool, then put the lid on and put the brewpot with wort in the washtub outside. I add ice and dump it out and refill the washtub when the chilled water gets warm. I get up early the next day, siphon into my fermenter and pitch the yeast. Using this method I can also take a quart or so of wort, chill it in a small pot using cold water in the kitchen sink, then get a starter going. I've had good results but realize my brewing is limited by the weather.
In the winter, I can get chilled wort pretty soon, I can even pack the washtub with snow if there is any.

Yep that is why I love brewing in the winter. Free ice!

 

[benm1024]

I use hose water to get the wort down to about 100-120 with my IC, then i turn off the water and hook up a sump pump that I have sitting in a cooler of ice water. The ice water circulating through the IC cools the wort down as low as I need it very fast. Before I used a pre-chiller in the ice bath, but the sump pump has been much faster and efficient for me.