Is no rolling boil bad?

[Newsman]

DrWill, I am not trying to be argumentative, do some research on the effects of aluminum absorbed in the body. People use products for example that are bad for you such as baking powder with aluminum added, or underarm deodorant containing aluminum oxide. Continual cooking of any kind in aluminum can cause problems. One of the big ones is early stages of Alzheimers. If I could only remember what else, LOL.

Johnny... Check out this article. That urban legend about cooking in aluminum has been pretty thoroughly debunked.

 

[FATC1TY]

I do not actually SCRUB the pots with something abrasive . I use a wash cloth and Ivory soap .

On to Teflon . Only bad if you over heat the pan . Then yes . This is why you are not supposed to use high heat on pots and pans .

Aluminum turkey fryer pots , well I just can not see them being all that healthy with a huge propane burner on them and caustic or acidic liquid being boiled . I could be wrong as it is just a theory .
I thought I was wrong one time but I was mistaken .
But like I said , I used them also . Up until I wanted to go bigger .

Sure them nasties will die in the boil so no point in washing too thoroughly , right ? Well then no reason to wash them dishes before you eat off of them again . your sink is the nastier than your toilet so I would not suggest it but if you simply boiled the dishes for a few minutes then you could use them . No need to wash them as them germs probably died in that boil .
Well I would say that I would rather wash them germs off instead of having them dead germs in my food . So goes with the beer .
I am not a germophobe personally so I think a little soap and a scrubbing with a cloth is usually all that is needed .

Your analogy doesn't work.. Washing dishes and your pot don't go together.

Aluminum might be "rough" but it's not full of holes to harbor bacteria, so you can drop that theory. It's wrong. It's your boil pot, and it's purpose is to boil the liquid. You should clean your dishes because there is dried on food on them, same as you would clean your pot from hop debris before you use it again.

Also, Teflon can scrape off your pots quicker than you just over heating them. Point is, you can use high heat on pots, because who the hell would buy pots that you could only simmer in? It gets scraped up worse. High heat causes it to break down, but at that point, you'll likely be at the point of flashing any oils, or burning the hell out of your food.

You really should stop pushing out these "theories" you have, because some people here, new brewers, might take it as gospel.


Regardless, aluminum pots are fine for boiling. Boil a new pot, or a cleaned pot with a little water and get a gray passive layer on it, and you are perfectly fine. I use SS because of the ease of use in cleaning it, and because it's a bigger kettle I needed. Aluminum would work just fine.

 

[FATC1TY]

So then back to the point of all of this ... No rolling boil is just fine as far as I can tell . How ever I do think it is preferable to me since it means less time boiling off that excess water ... Oh yeah that excess water would not need to be in there if I used a gentle boil .... A conundrum indeed .
I think this was asked long ago - " to boil or not to boil . that is the question ."

Maybe this goes into play - hard boil would boil away more of them tasty smelly oils from the hops ?
Maybe the gentle boil would leave more aroma/flavor ? Leading in to - what temp is best for extracting them oils ?

Just for the facts i use a 90 minute full boil with hops of course starting in at 60 minutes or FWA

Over 100-110 degrees will boil off the compounds for aroma. So you'd still need to boil, because you need to isomerize your alpha's to get your IBU's.

No way around it.

 

[fearwig]

(deleted because I didn't see the last two pages, and my sarcastic comments about aluminum and teflon are probably unnecessary)

The main reason you don't scrub aluminum and let it "condition" (with boil protein gunk really, not with polymerized oil like cast iron) is to ward off corrosion, though, just so it's said.

 

[Chadwick]

I use a 6 gallon stainless pot on a kitchen range top. It takes a while for it to get to the boil point, and I'm always standing guard with a spray bottle of sanitized water. I often do not have much room for the hot break to rise much. So I beat it down with the spray bottle. It eventually calms down and I can leave it without worries of boil over. I off-set my kettle from the burner so that the burner is on one side. This helps the boil to develop that circulating motion. In fact, you can see it circulating before it even actually starts boiling.

 

[retread2]

Wow, so many answers thanks guys (and girls, if any)
I should have mentioned earlier that I do AG brews, not extracts.
To answer some of the questions, I was covering the lid and will know better not to. I do like my beers and some of them have even won a couple of medals in the local HB competitions
I am considering to buy a flat bottom stainless steel pot, but they cost a small fortune and I can't let myself currently buy one. I will research on the turkey friers, as I have an option of shipping from UK, if the price is right.
I will probably lower the volumes to 15 l for now, to get a better boil, while I search for new cooking pot.

If you like your beers and you are winning medals in competition with them why change?
If it ain't broke don't fix it!

 

[Epimetheus]

Also. DMS can be reduced by clean copper in the boil or fermentor.

Why does copper help? How much surface area per volume of wort or gravity? Is this similar to using copper mesh in the condenser of a distilling unit?

I insert a large copper immersion cooler only in the last 10 minutes. Would copper reduce DMS noticeably in either of these cases?
1. have some copper in the boil kettle from the start of the boil
2. have some copper in the wort throughout fermentation.

 

[fearwig]

I use a 6 gallon stainless pot on a kitchen range top. It takes a while for it to get to the boil point, and I'm always standing guard with a spray bottle of sanitized water.

Not to nitpick, but just for informational purposes for everyone, you don't need to sanitize or sterilize anything that is only going near boiling or preboil wort. I mean it should be clean, no straining it through dirty socks, but you don't have to do the "boiled water" thing with your foam fighting spray bottle. (I usually skim and, if there's enough, filter all that hot break foam anyway, but I'm a weirdo.)

 

[fearwig]

Why does copper help? How much surface area per volume of wort or gravity? Is this similar to using copper mesh in the condenser of a distilling unit?

I insert a large copper immersion cooler only in the last 10 minutes. Would copper reduce DMS noticeably in either of these cases?
1. have some copper in the boil kettle from the start of the boil
2. have some copper in the wort throughout fermentation.

I can't find anything on this but it's interesting. I mean, this has to be some kind of catalytic action, if true? I have never had a DMS problem (none that I know of anyway, maybe I don't know what I'm tasting but I figure it's sulfuric/rotten eggy).

I see some stuff like this on post-ferm wine additives but I don't know how it relates. http://morebeer.com/public/wine/Product Directions/CuSO4.pdf

 

[Chadwick]

Not to nitpick, but just for informational purposes for everyone, you don't need to sanitize or sterilize anything that is only going near boiling or preboil wort. I mean it should be clean, no straining it through dirty socks, but you don't have to do the "boiled water" thing with your foam fighting spray bottle. (I usually skim and, if there's enough, filter all that hot break foam anyway, but I'm a weirdo.)

I see where you are coming from. My idea of sanitized water in my spray bottle is rinsing the bottle out pretty good and adding distilled water.

I don't get too carried away with cleaning things that will only be boiled later. My cleanliness does go out of control when dealing with the beer at all points after the wort is cooling/cooled.

 

[mikebenntt]

Responding to Maegnar's first post. I just did my first batch 2 days ago also on an induction cook top. I did get to the hot break with a very vigorous rolling boil. I had to knock it down until the break finally came through. After that, I never did get it back to a rolling boil (at least what I consider a rolling boil). I could see that the hops and all in the pot were moving around very nicely and I did take a temperature reading and it came out at 219F. So I think my boil came out well. The batch has been in the fermenter for two days and it's bubbling like crazy. BTW, my first batch is 2.5 gallons and I'm hoping for the best.

 

[Tim_Kreitz]

I didn't read through every single post, but in skimming this thread, I didn't see anyone ask whether or not these are extract brews you're boiling on your stovetop. Long, rolling boils are not as necessary for extract, because it has already been boiled for you once. James Spencer at Basic Brewing did a whole series of videos on 20-minute extract beers that used extra hops to compensate for the reduced boil times. I brewed a couple of them back when I was keeping enough DME around, and they were surprisingly good. Just some food for thought. What matters is, do you like your beer? If you do, steady on.

 

[NivekD]

I did take a temperature reading and it came out at 219F.

Time for a new thermometer, unless you're below sea level...

 

[BigSumpin]

I thought I was wrong one time but I was mistaken .

Thats all I need to know...

 

[DrWill]

I didn't read through every single post, but in skimming this thread, I didn't see anyone ask whether or not these are extract brews you're boiling on your stovetop. Long, rolling boils are not as necessary for extract, because it has already been boiled for you once. James Spencer at Basic Brewing did a whole series of videos on 20-minute extract beers that used extra hops to compensate for the reduced boil times. I brewed a couple of them back when I was keeping enough DME around, and they were surprisingly good. Just some food for thought. What matters is, do you like your beer? If you do, steady on.

You are absolutely right that long boils are more important for all grain brewing. Even with all grain, however, it isn't necessary to have a violent boil. For most styles that don't depend on a lot of Maillard reactions in the kettle, as long as there is some disturbance on the surface, you should be fine.

 

[MarcusKillion]

Your beer is obviously going to be horrible because of this action . Unless of course it tastes good .
I have my $$ on good .

 

[DrWill]

Your beer is obviously going to be horrible because of this action . Unless of course it tastes good .
I have my $$ on good .

Your logic is unassailable, sir.