Is my Oktoberfest kaput?

[BreslinBrewer]

Hoping for a little guidance for my first lager, Better Brew Oktoberfest. My brew has gone through an abnormal 10 days and I'm not sure whether its worth anymore time and effort. Lets start with a recent Sunday and call it Day 1 - Brew Day.

Day 1 - Followed kit instructions. Cooled wort to 60F, sprinkled in the one supplied yeast pack and stir vigorously. Put the lid on the bucket with airlock and set in my temperature controlled fermentation chamber. However, my ETC was not working how I had hoped, so I shut it off. The brew sat in my basement with ambient temperatures in the low to mid 60s.

Day 2 - In the afternoon I fixed the ETC and set it to 53F per the instructions in kit. At this point there is no fermentation. Day 3, 4, and 5 go by, and still no fermentation.

Day 5 - My hydrometer reading has risen from OG 1.054 to 1.060. I'm not sure this is possible, but regardless there clearly isn't any fermentation happening. I contact my LHBS friend and he suggests I raise the temp back up to 60F.

Day 6 - In the morning the temp reads 57F. I re-pitch a pack of Saflager S-23 yeast that afternoon. This time I rehydrate the yeast in a cup of warm water for 15 minutes. I stir this into the wort and set the temp to 63F per the yeast instructions.

Day 7 - I can smell a change but there is no movement in the airlock.

Day 8 - Alas, the airlock is bubbling and there is fermentation!

Day 9 - I check it in the afternoon and the airlock has quieted down considerably. I lower the temp to 50F. The yeast specs say no lower than 53, the LHBS guy says 50-55 and then I read throughout these forums that as low as 45 is preferred.

Day 10 - So here we are at Day 10 and I check the airlock this morning. Nothing happening. Not even bubble remnants of gas gone by.

If I was to continue, my plan is to check another gravity reading on Friday, which would be Day 13 from brew date for those counting at home. However, since fermentation started 7 days late, maybe this will be too soon. If I am at least 75% to FG, then I will bring it up to 62F for a 2-3 day diactyl rest. Next I will transfer to secondary and lower temp to 33F in increments of 2 degrees per day. Here I will let it lager for 6 weeks. This will end up bottled, but that is for another thread and discussion.

Among everything else, this will be a true test of my sanitation practices. I am much more informed for my next attempt at lagering through all the research I've done, but too bad I waited until after I brewed. Clearly my fault for being naive enough to think the kit would guide me correctly. Is this brew dead? Thanks in advance for the advice.

 

[freisste]

Certainly not dead, but maybe not optimal. Lagers an be tricky, so if it doesn't come out perfectly on your first attempt, don't worry too much.

You did a lot of temperature adjusting. On your next lager, make sure the controller is good to go before brewing.

Lagers need much more yeast than ales. Make sure to do a starter after confirming numbers in mrmalty.com or yeastcalc.com. I personally prefer yeastcalc, but make your own decision.

Sounds like you know the importance of sanitation, so keep up the good work.

Consider this a lesson learned on following kit instructions. They aren't all completely awful, but many are and most aren't great. A little more time on this forum and you'll barely skim instructions that come with kits.

Keep brewing. Mistakes will get fewer and further between and brews will get better and better.

 

[Pie_Man]

+1 ^^^

The temp swings are less than ideal for your yeast, perhaps causing some of them to go dormant. Remember, as the brewer, it is your job to make the wort, and keep the yeast happy.

I have only used liquid lager yeasts, but I recommend following the manufacture's guidelines for s-23, http://www.fermentis.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/SFG_S23.pdf, especially with this being your lager. The specs list 53.6F as the low end of "ideal", but do mention the yeast's overall temp range as low as 48F. I'd probably stay at the lower end of the ideal range, 53-55F.

Regarding the initial pitch not fermenting, I would always rehydrate the yeast as you did the second time, especially for lager strains. It's also possible you were underpitching, and perhaps there was a lack of oxygen in the wort. Also, I have had good success pitching the yeast colder then warming it up a few degrees, rather than pitch warm and then cool. I recommend this technique if possible.

 

[Jayhem]

Echo what Pie Man said there.

I think you simply did not have enough yeast and pitching yeast warm and then cooling the wort down further will put them to sleep!

I got lucky so far with first Lager (Vienna) which is fermenting as I type! It took it just 24 hours to get a nice head of krausen and active churning of fermentation. I used a 2-step starter using liquid yeast and pitched almost 1 full cup of thick yeast slurry as per Yeastcalc.com's recommendations on starter size. I pitched at 57F (which was not ideal but I couldn't chill it any lower without a counterflow or pump). I chilled the wort to 54F in the first 6 hours in my fridge and then held it at 54F through active fermentation. I'd rather have fermented at 48F but I didn't want to drop the temp too much and shock my yeast into sleep which could cause underpitching results and harsh flavors. Time will tell! From everything I've read on Lagers the key is to pitch cold, decanted yeast from a starter that was recently cold crashed, have the wort a few degrees colder than you want to ferment at and let the beer gradually rise in temp to the target and hold it there as it goes active. The D-Rest is a good idea as well after the krausen falls and you are about 5 points from FG.

Good luck! Let us know how it turns out (subscribed!)

 

[Pie_Man]

I pitched at 57F (which was not ideal but I couldn't chill it any lower without a counterflow or pump). I chilled the wort to 54F in the first 6 hours in my fridge and then held it at 54F through active fermentation. I'd rather have fermented at 48F but I didn't want to drop the temp too much and shock my yeast into sleep which could cause underpitching results and harsh flavors.

I live in Florida, so with the high ground water temp, pitching cool is also difficult. What I do is cool the wort about as low as I can with my immersion chiller, then cool the rest of the way in my ferm fridge. With good sanitization, I haven't had an issue cooling over night and pitching the next morning. I cover the carboy opening with a few layers of paper towels dampend with Star San and rubber band them to the carboy neck just incase a bug gets in the fridge. The paper towels prevent airlock liquid from being sucked into the wort (I use this technique when I cold crash as well). Then I spray some Star San all over my already sanitized fridge for good measure. If I ever get a second immersion chiller (IC), I will try running ice water through my wort, but for now, this method works fine for me.

 

[Jayhem]

I live in Florida, so with the high ground water temp, pitching cool is also difficult. What I do is cool the wort about as low as I can with my immersion chiller, then cool the rest of the way in my ferm fridge. With good sanitization, I haven't had an issue cooling over night and pitching the next morning. I cover the carboy opening with a few layers of paper towels dampend with Star San and rubber band them to the carboy neck just incase a bug gets in the fridge. The paper towels prevent airlock liquid from being sucked into the wort (I use this technique when I cold crash as well). Then I spray some Star San all over my already sanitized fridge for good measure. If I ever get a second immersion chiller (IC), I will try running ice water through my wort, but for now, this method works fine for me.

That's a good tip, but my fermenting fridge will be set at 48F for a Lager and that would take quite a while to get 5 gallon batches down. What about sitting the fermenters in an ice bath for an hour or 2 before pitching? that was my initial thoughts for my Oktoberfest that I plan to brew with harvested yeast from this Vienna Lager.

 

[Pie_Man]

That's a good tip, but my fermenting fridge will be set at 48F for a Lager and that would take quite a while to get 5 gallon batches down. What about sitting the fermenters in an ice bath for an hour or 2 before pitching? that was my initial thoughts for my Oktoberfest that I plan to brew with harvested yeast from this Vienna Lager.

Using ice will work, I don't know how long it will take, but with enough ice and time, it will work.

Cooling in the fridge does take awhile, I usually set my fridge a few degrees lower than fermentation temperature, wait for my wort to cool, pitch as I outlined above, then adjust my temperature controller accordingly. It takes longer, but it's less effort than getting ice and lifting the fermenter in and out of the ice bath. Good luck with your Oktober.

 

[BreslinBrewer]

You can understand my confusion and slight frustration. The yeast specs say no lower than 53.6, my LHBS says keep it between 50-55 and then I read threads here that say 48 is preferred.

I have read many suggestions that have mentioned about pitching techniques. Trust me, I'll be more prepared next time. I'll plan on making a starter and pitching at a couple degrees below the fermentation temp.

 

[Pie_Man]

You can understand my confusion and slight frustration. The yeast specs say no lower than 53.6, my LHBS says keep it between 50-55 and then I read threads here that say 48 is preferred.

That's not exactly what the yeast specs say. Directly from Fermentis: Fermentation Temperature : 9-22°C (48.2-71.6°F) ideally 12-15°C (53.6-59°F).

Keep in mind that brewers with experience using the yeast may prefer the lower temperature range. For them, with adequate pitching rates and aeration, the yeast may perform just fine at that lower temperature range. With experience, and trial and error, you can determine what works best for your beer based on your personal preference.

I understand your frustration, but I think you are focusing on the wrong aspect. There's not really a right or wrong answer, within reason. What's more important is keeping fermentation temp relatively stable (excluding a diacetyl rest).

Also, dry yeast does not require a starter. That's a technique to increase the yeast cell count when using liquid yeast. It's not typically necessary or cost/time effective to make a starter for dry yeast.

Sounds like you are learning a lot though. That's most important. Keep brewing