Is it worth it to buy bulk grains?

[Beernik]

I put hard numbers to it this morning. With the 17 beers I have planned for the year, it looks like it would make sense to buy Pale Malt and Pilsen in bulk and I could save about $45. I could buy a corona mill and be ahead this year.

If I could get 20-30lb sacks instead of 50-55lbs, I could step up that bulk purchase to include Munich, Vienna, and Wheat.

How big a Rubbermaid tote do you need for 25lbs of grain and for 55lbs of grain?

 

[WI_Wino]

For me, it would take 2000 lbs of 2 row to break even on the cost of a mill. So at some point it will be worth it but right now brewing dollars are going to other aspects. Costs based on Ritebrew w/ local pick up.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/grain-mill-payback-465305/

 

[DRonco]

How big a Rubbermaid tote do you need for 25lbs of grain and for 55lbs of grain?

From my research, it looks like a 10 gal container will hold roughly 50 lbs.

 

[DrunkleJon]

From my research, it looks like a 10 gal container will hold roughly 50 lbs.

Yep, a 5 Gallon homer bucket holds about 25# so you get basically 5# per Gallon. Bonus points if you get a good seal on the container (like the Gamma seal lids for buckets or vittle vaults).

 

[copyright1997]

Yep, a 5 Gallon homer bucket holds about 25# so you get basically 5# per Gallon. Bonus points if you get a good seal on the container (like the Gamma seal lids for buckets or vittle vaults).

Instead of buying the orange homer buckets which are not food grade, buy the 5 gal white paint buckets at Walmart made by encore plastics. These have been verified to be food grade, cost $2.97 for the bucket (without a lid). Then, as you said, invest in some gamma seal lids.


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[kombat]

I buy malt and hops in bulk through group buys organized by my local homebrew club.

The biggest upfront cost for me, honestly, was the buckets and lids. I went with food-grade buckets and Gamma Seal lids, which are apparently quite pricey. However, I really enjoy having such a wide variety of grains available for those days when I feel like brewing on a whim.

I buy full sacks of 2-row, Maris Otter, Pilsner, and Munich malts. I buy partial sacks of Carafoam, roasted barley, Vienna, Carared (equivalent to Crystal 20), Caraaroma (Crystal 120), Caraamber (Crystal 30), and rice hulls. Beyond that, I order my grains onilne by the pound, on an "as-needed" basis from a well stocked HBS with good prices and decent shipping. I always order more than I need, to ensure I have a couple of pounds in my bin. These are the grains that are only ever needed for a few ounces in some recipes, stuff like Chocolate malt, Melanoidin, flaked corn, toasted barley, that sort of stuff.

The hops I buy by the pound, then portion them out and vacuum seal them in individual pouches with a FoodSaver vacuum sealer system. I store them in labeled bins in my freezer.

 

[fartinmartin]

I've always bought my base malt in 25kg sacks. I don't like to think about storing it in an airtight container, that's only some gut feeling I have , you know the sort, those that can't be argued with!
I keep mine in the sack , normally it's there for max three months.
So here at end April I am two brews into my second sack.
I must be drinking toooo much.

 

[LandoLincoln]

For me, it would take 2000 lbs of 2 row to break even on the cost of a mill. So at some point it will be worth it but right now brewing dollars are going to other aspects. Costs based on Ritebrew w/ local pick up.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/grain-mill-payback-465305/

There's a heck of a lot of posts on this website that contain the phrases "my efficiency is horrible" and "I mill my grains at the homebrew shop." I don't think that's a coincidence.

 

[fartinmartin]

I don't think it's coincidence either. So what is the effective shelf / or use life, for optimum ?

 

[WI_Wino]

There's a heck of a lot of posts on this website that contain the phrases "my efficiency is horrible" and "I mill my grains at the homebrew shop." I don't think that's a coincidence.

Yeah, I was surprised at that. Personally I'm getting 85% from Ritebrew's crush (BIAB, double mill option)

 

[RM-MN]

Instead of buying the orange homer buckets which are not food grade, buy the 5 gal white paint buckets at Walmart made by encore plastics. These have been verified to be food grade, cost $2.97 for the bucket (without a lid). Then, as you said, invest in some gamma seal lids.


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Buy their lids too, they seal airtight. I've been using them for fermenting 2 1/2 gallon batches and the airlock bubbles like it should.:rockin:

 

[JaimeTheLimey]

I buy base like 2 row and pils in bulk.
You may want to check with your local shop to see if they have a grain card program. You basically pay bulk price up front, then they deduct it off your card each time you come in. Best of both worlds; fresh grain and bulk price.

 

[copyright1997]

Buy their lids too, they seal airtight. I've been using them for fermenting 2 1/2 gallon batches and the airlock bubbles like it should.:rockin:

Yes, I have a bunch of their lids also.


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[Puddlethumper]

I don't think it's coincidence either. So what is the effective shelf / or use life, for optimum ?

The main issue with long-term storage of whole grain malts is moisture. The next level of concern belongs to temperature. And obviously, pest damage including mice, grainary moths, etc. can be a problem if the grain isn't kept in tightly sealed containers.

According to most sources whole grains should be stored where they will remain dry with temperatures below 90F. According to Briess some slight loss of flavor may occur in whole grains after 18 mos. in good conditions.

If the grain is stored where it will absorb moisture, all bets are off. It can go bad on you in a hurry.

 

[jbaysurfer]

I'm going to be in Santa Barbara for a few days next month. Got any recommendations on good local microbrewries?

Sorry, just caught this. If you like Sours, drive up to Buelton (30minutes or so north) to the Firestone Walker Barrel Room. The sours are amazing. It's world class, and the tasting is totally affordable.

For in town, The Brewhouse down on Montecito St. is a great place for food and beer. The brewers are personal friends and they have a triple IPA going on tap soon. If you're lucky it'll still be there. They also make great belgians, and the current RIS on draft is outstanding.

Figueroa Mountain is downtown and it's generally hopping. I have a beer going on tap there, but we won't be brewing it til next month. Who knows..maybe you'll be there when we do? They are on a tear with 3 medals at the last GABF and 2 at World Beer Cup recently. No food, but you can order from nearby restaurants, and the barmaids are cute.

Santa Barbara Brewing Company has a pretty unique Imperial Lager on draft right now. The brewmaster is a BJCP Grand Master judge, and he brews beer to style generally, but this Imperial Lager was a rare foray for him and it's very cool.

In Goleta there's a place with good food and good (especially if you're a hophead) beers called Hollister Brewing company. Hippy kicker is one of my favorites (IPA) but Hip-Hop and Masterplan DIPAs are also great, as is the Fire Dragon Imperial Red ale.

Hit me up and if I'm in town I'd love to show you around and introduce you to some of the brewers if they're in house when we go.

 

[Puddlethumper]

Hit me up and if I'm in town I'd love to show you around and introduce you to some of the brewers if they're in house when we go.

Thanks for the leads! Will be travelling with the wife and sister-in-law so the pubs with food will be at the top of the list. I know you are friends with them so I don't want to corner you with this, but if you were travelling with two 60-70'ish ladies which one would you recommend for a light supper or lunch and some good beer?



p.s. They enjoy a good time, but hip-hop and loud definitely aren't going to get it. Thanks!

 

[jbaysurfer]

Thanks for the leads! Will be travelling with the wife and sister-in-law so the pubs with food will be at the top of the list. I know you are friends with them so I don't want to corner you with this, but if you were travelling with two 60-70'ish ladies which one would you recommend for a light supper or lunch and some good beer?



p.s. They enjoy a good time, but hip-hop and loud definitely aren't going to get it. Thanks!

Brewhouse downtown and Hollister in Goleta. Hollister is more strip mall-ish. Brewhouse is a bit more hip..in a divey kinda way. I think in terms of food/beer quality, I'd rank them in that order. (Brewhouse, then Hollister).

Oh, PS, Hip Hop is just a beer name. There's no loud music at either place (well, unless it's live Music night (fridays I believe) at Brewhouse), but they both can get pretty full sometimes. Hollister is near UCSB but they mostly only get grad students/more mature students in there when they come.

 

[Puddlethumper]

Brewhouse downtown and Hollister in Goleta. .

Awesome! Thanks for the info and for the invite. If I get down that way when I can go for a real pub-crawl I'll definitely take you up on it!

 

[fezzman]

The main issue with long-term storage of whole grain malts is moisture. The next level of concern belongs to temperature. And obviously, pest damage including mice, grainary moths, etc. can be a problem if the grain isn't kept in tightly sealed containers.

According to most sources whole grains should be stored where they will remain dry with temperatures below 90F. According to Briess some slight loss of flavor may occur in whole grains after 18 mos. in good conditions.

If the grain is stored where it will absorb moisture, all bets are off. It can go bad on you in a hurry.

The problem I had with my second 50# sack was weevils hatching within a few months. I had the grains stored in 5 gallon buckets.

I have since been storing my grains in freezer bags...in the freezer. A 1 gallon bag will hold 4 lbs. This makes it easy to pull smaller quantities so that the rest stays frozen. Is this a bad idea???

I suppose weevils won't likely develop in specialty grains that are kilned or roasted.

 

[Puddlethumper]

I suppose weevils won't likely develop in specialty grains that are kilned or roasted.

Your bugs most likely came from your supplier. The product probably had the bugs in it when you bought it.

To bring you up to speed on the topic, we tend to call a whole bunch of different stored food pests "weevils" when weevils, in fact, are pretty uncommon. Weevils are a whole grain pest. We find them in products such as whole wheat, rice and beans.

The much more common stored food pests are grain moths (Indian meal moth, angumois flour moth, Mediterranean flour moth) and various grain beetles (i.e. confused flour beetle, sawtooth grain beetle, red flour beetle, etc.) This latter group of pests is associated with cracked grains, not whole grains like the true weevils. And that is the connection with the malted grains we use in brewing.

Your supplier probably had these products on the floor for a long time and/or he has some pretty serious sanitation issues. Unless you have a stored food pest problem at your house already, if you bought grain and ended up with stored food pest problems shortly afterward, I'd give consideration to finding another supplier.

 

[iglehart]

A nice container for grains is the vital vault. Its expensive but a nice container.

 

[milldoggy]

Just an fyi, two 5 gallon buckets will not hold 55 lb sacks, but one 7 g and one 5 g will. I repurposed a bunch of old ferm buckets for grain storage. Also, once you snap on a gamma seal lid, I do not think it comes off.

 

[Puddlethumper]

I have since been storing my grains in freezer bags...in the freezer. A 1 gallon bag will hold 4 lbs. This makes it easy to pull smaller quantities so that the rest stays frozen. Is this a bad idea???

I suppose weevils won't likely develop in specialty grains that are kilned or roasted.

Forgot to address your question about freezing, and yes, storing any grain product in the freezer is a good way to eliminate stored food pests. 10 days at 0F will kill all stages including the eggs. Once they've been through that cold treatment you can move them to a sealed storage container without concern for them hatching out.

All of the malts we use have been through a kiln. It is part of the malting process. So if we get bugs in our grain the infestation had to have started at some point after the malting process.

 

[ChiechiBrouw]

I have no LHBS, so I buy all my base malts in 25 kg sacks. I just stick them in a cabinet right in the sack they came in. Brewing about once a month (20 L) I've never had a problem. Ikea sells really nice sealable containers for the specialty malts, which I buy 1 or 5 kg at a time.

However, a few months ago our house was taken over by cigarette beetles. We couldn't figure out where they were coming from until one day I got the bright idea to look in my brew supply cabinet. I had a 5 kg sack of malted wheat that I hadn't touched in forever and, upon close inspection, there was a tiny hole drilled into almost every grain. About 1/4 of the bag was filled with dead beetles... yuck. They didn't touch any of the barley malts though.

The lesson I learned was to use sealed containers and to keep my inventory lean Even tossing old malts (and hops) occasionally I still come out ahead price-wise than if I bought for one or two batches at a time.

 

[Beernik]

Forgot to address your question about freezing, and yes, storing any grain product in the freezer is a good way to eliminate stored food pests. 10 days at 0F will kill all stages including the eggs. Once they've been through that cold treatment you can move them to a sealed storage container without concern for them hatching out.

This is great info. This has been one of my main concerns with bulk purchase.

 

[Puddlethumper]

This is great info. This has been one of my main concerns with bulk purchase.

LOL, glad to be of some help. And so you'll know I'm not some dude talking out his a**, I own a pest control company. Cheers!

 

[LovesIPA]

That is excellent info. Thanks for posting it.

 

[ObsidianJester]

I buy bulk base grains for about $35 per 50lb bag. Well worth it. I store in Lowes white buckets with Gamma lids. I can get ~25lbs in each pail.

I also buy bulk hops. It's more than worth it. It's close to half the price depending on what hops you buy. I've got 16lbs in my freezer.

I do nearly the very same thing. I may buy a lot of 1 oz packages of hops however but I am doing some bulk packs. I'll see if vacuum sealing the 1oz amounts leads to loss of flavor, bitterness or aroma.

I got some bins very very similar to these : http://www.target.com/p/sterilite-c...le/-/A-13794491#prodSlot=medium_1_20&term=bin

Those are the bins that I store my smaller use grains in, the flavor and color additions. I have about a dozen of them and they store up to about 5 pounds.

 

[Puddlethumper]

I do nearly the very same thing. I may buy a lot of 1 oz packages of hops however but I am doing some bulk packs. I'll see if vacuum sealing the 1oz amounts leads to loss of flavor, bitterness or aroma.

I started buying hops by the pound a year or so ago. I do make it a point to only buy those hops that I use a lot such as EKG, Fuggles, Willamette, Cascade, Mt. Hood etc. It provides a bank of hops to draw from through about the year I intend to keep them. All are stored in Food Saver vacume sealed bags, 6 oz. each in the freezer in the garage. I figure this is at least as good as the storage practices of the hops producers. (After all, they only get one crop each year and have to store them somehow while waiting to ship them to us.).

I have noticed no appreciable loss of viability or flavor in my older hops (last year's). However, I admit to using 1 1/2 oz. Cascade in the Cream Ale I made tonight instead of 1 oz. because the hops were last year's crop.

 

[cockybitz]

I have just one bag of base malt. I got 55lb of maris otter for $47, so it works out for me to just use that.

The last bag lasted me 3 years.

Walmart sells containers that seal tight enough for me. I store them in my dry basement at about 60* year round.

there are really only about 15 malt types. You may find many more, but it is trademark name of what is really the same malts. I keep enough for about 2 batches worth of need from any specialty malts. The container is not exactly air tight, but some zip locks will fix that.

 

[rico567]

Normally I brew Spring and Fall. I brew maybe 7-8 x 5 gallon batches a year, so my grain needs aren't nearly that of people who are brewing 10 or more gallons at a time, and making who knows how much...well, let's not go there.
I usually make an order for a brewing season consisting of a bag of 2-row, and then the other grains I need and relevant supplies. If I forget something common, there's a wall in a big beverage mart locally that has beer & wine making supplies, so I can grab it there. This way I can make only a few online orders per year and minimize costs.

 

[jbaysurfer]

Normally I brew Spring and Fall. I brew maybe 7-8 x 5 gallon batches a year, so my grain needs aren't nearly that of people who are brewing 10 or more gallons at a time, and making who knows how much...well, let's not go there.
I usually make an order for a brewing season consisting of a bag of 2-row, and then the other grains I need and relevant supplies. If I forget something common, there's a wall in a big beverage mart locally that has beer & wine making supplies, so I can grab it there. This way I can make only a few online orders per year and minimize costs.

You kind of went there though didn't ya? There is a LONG ways between the volume you're brewing and what a household with 2 (or more) adults can legally make. I do not exceed any legal limits and yet I go through 5 bags of basemalt easily every year. Compared to paying by the pound retail, that saves me several hundred dollars per year.

Going bulk is an easy decision for LOTS of LEGAL homebrewers.