Is it time for a new chiller?

[sarsnik]

Each all grain brew I do, I try to make some sort of upgrade or improvement in my equipment or technique. I noticed that in the last brew we did, I had to run my immersion wort chiller for about 40 minutes before I got the wort down to 80. I do understand that cooling speed is obviously contingent on the temp of the water - I'll bet its about 75 right now in the PA summer. However, I've heard of people cooling 5 gallons of wort in 5-10 minutes. This got me thinking that my wort chiller looks a little small, and might be intended for a 3 gal extract system instead of my 5 all grain.

So should we invest in a new chiller? I would like to get a plate chiller since it's so compact, and I've always been adverse to putting anything but a spoon in the wort.

Thanks in advance for your help

 

[passedpawn]

Sure. Absolutely. Don't stop at just any chiller, go whole hog and get the Chill-Wizard from Sabco. :rockin:

I like spending your money.

Anyway, yes, it will cut your chilling time quite a bit. The key to making your plate chiller work well for you is to maximize the flow rate of the chilling / hose water.

 

[Bobby_M]

When tap water is running out at 80F like it is around here, it doesn't really matter what chiller you have. Speaking of putting a spoon in your wort, are you stirring really well during the chilling? Once the wort is getting in the 100F area, the next best thing is to run icewater through it via a pond pump or even gravity if you get creative (an old bottling bucket with a spigot on a ladder?).

 

[sarsnik]

When tap water is running out at 80F like it is around here, it doesn't really matter what chiller you have. Speaking of putting a spoon in your wort, are you stirring really well during the chilling? Once the wort is getting in the 100F area, the next best thing is to run icewater through it via a pond pump or even gravity if you get creative (an old bottling bucket with a spigot on a ladder?).

I stir, yes, but how would you define really well? I don't want to oxidize the wort, but I do try to move it around the coils.

As for the icewater, that was something I considered. I do want to finally get a pump...

Also, the chill wizard looks terrifying! I have to have it...do you think an arm and leg will sell for 829$?

 

[Bobby_M]

The wizard is overrated in my opinion considering a March 809 is $130 and a 30 plate "long" chiller from Dudadiesel is another 130.

 

[Spartan1979]

I have a 50' 3/8" chiller. I used to have to stir or shake the chiller and it would take a half hour to get the beer down to the water temp or my target. I recently added a March pump and I'm recirculating the wort while it cools. It makes an amazing difference and I don't have to do anything. Chilling is now 10-15 mins to 80°. It will be interesting to see what happens when the water temp gets colder.

 

[Wakadaka]

+1 on getting a pump to pump ice water through. That's my plan, and a lot of people seem to be very happy with it. You might consider a rib cage immersion chiller as well. If you search it the thread should come up.

How big is your current immersion chiller? And no need to worry about oxidation when cooling really. I have read about hot side aeration, but I think thats just during the mash (not really sure, I have never understood what hot side aeration was tbh). You want to aerate your beer before pitching, so stirring won't be a big deal.

 

[sarsnik]

The march pump sounds like a good idea...how fast could I expect the cooling to be with the 30 plate chiller? I looked at the chart here: http://www.dudadiesel.com/choose_item.php?id=HX2330BWC

Using a conservative wort flow rate of 2-3 gpm (march 809 max rate is 7.2 gpm apparently) it would supposedly only take 4-5 minutes to cool a 10 gallon batch. We would only need to do it for a 5 gallon. For now...

Its also worth noting that the chart said the water would be 68, not the 80ish that I think my water is during the summer.

 

[Paulgs3]

I stir, yes, but how would you define really well? I don't want to oxidize the wort, but I do try to move it around the coils.

Whoa! Oxidation is something you don't need to worry about at this stage. Its the opposite at this point, you WANT oxygen in the wart before you pitch.

 

[sarsnik]

Whoa! Oxidation is something you don't need to worry about at this stage. Its the opposite at this point, you WANT oxygen in the wart before you pitch.

Not while the wort is cooling. After it's below 80 you can aerate

 

[Ozzfan666]

Not while the wort is cooling. After it's below 80 you can aerate

never heard of waiting for 80 degrees to aerate?

make a pre-chiller.

buy your pump and plate chiller or bigger immersion chiler, use your old chiller and put it in a bucket of ice water, run your chiller water thru the other chiller, than thru your new chiller. I have to do that here in Pensacola cause the water is like 85 or 90 in august

 

[Paulgs3]

never heard of waiting for 80 degrees to aerate?

Me either. *shrugs* OK, don't mix the wort and wonder why it stays hot.....

 

[sarsnik]

Yeah any time the wort (preboil, postboil, and even post-fermentation, though you shouldn't be serving your beer 80 degrees + ) is hot it's susceptible to oxidation. You can risk getting a stale or cardboard tasting beer if you aren't careful.

First learned this from palmers book. This is one of the chapters that outlines the potential problems.

http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter6-9-3.html

 

[passedpawn]

The wizard is overrated in my opinion considering a March 809 is $130 and a 30 plate "long" chiller from Dudadiesel is another 130.

OK, maybe overrated when considering performance / $. If you just want performance, I'd say it's a great device, possibly without peer. (btw, I do not have a chill wizard).

 

[wildwest450]

Yeah any time the wort (preboil, postboil, and even post-fermentation, though you shouldn't be serving your beer 80 degrees + ) is hot it's susceptible to oxidation. You can risk getting a stale or cardboard tasting beer if you aren't careful.

First learned this from palmers book. This is one of the chapters that outlines the potential problems.

http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter6-9-3.html

Another outdated notion from an outdated book. Hogwash.
If it's not outdated, please explain whirlpooling.

_

 

[Bobby_M]

OK, maybe overrated when considering performance / $. If you just want performance, I'd say it's a great device, possibly without peer. (btw, I do not have a chill wizard).

No doubt it works great if you just want it and have the money but you can get the same chilling performance in a slightly less attractive (and well branded) package for less than half the price.

 

[passedpawn]

No doubt it works great if you just want it and have the money but you can get the same chilling performance in a slightly less attractive (and well branded) package for less than half the price.

I like the feature set. Haven't seen anything like it anywhere. Post links if you have them.

 

[rockfish42]

Another outdated notion from an outdated book. Hogwash.
If it's not outdated, please explain whirlpooling.

_

It's not completely silly, but I think on a homebrew level it's hard to cause enough to matter. Look up hot side aeration aka HSA.

 

[sarsnik]

Another outdated notion from an outdated book. Hogwash.
If it's not outdated, please explain whirlpooling.

_

I agree with rockfish, you probably don't have to obsess over HSA. Commercial breweries have to worry about it since they are transferring fluids 100s of times faster than a homebrewer does. However, I wouldn't describe oxidation as an 'outdated notion', even if palmers book is old. Last I checked, metal still rusts and apples still turn brown...

to clarify, I'm not suggesting oxidation will guarantee a ruined beer. It's is just know to cause flavor and longevity issues. If you want a simple explanation of it, byo has an ok article http://www.byo.com/stories/wizard/article/section/121-mr-wizard/866-hot-side-aeration-a-storing-hops-mr-wizard If you want more in depth chemistry, look up the specifics of melanoidin oxidation, the compound in malt that is supposed to cause flavor staling.

As for the whirlpool, your not (or shouldn't be) heavily splashing the wort when your spinning it. Agitation is what causes oxygen to dissolve, so if your just gently spinning the wort you won't need to worry about significant adverse affects to your brew.