Is it ok that I don't really feel like going all grain?

[DrinkNoH2O]

Do what you like. For me all grain was a natural progression. As my wife says, it gives me more to "geek out" on (I'm an engineer and enjoy science and tinkering). I think I did 4 extract batches, one partial mash (which made me realize I wanted the full control of all grain) then all grain ever since.

This past weekend however I tasted the last bottle of my 2nd batch ever that had been aging about 9 months, an extract IPA, and it tasted great.

 

[TheMan]

You can brew however you like. If you're satisfied with what you make then that's all that matters.

That being said, I hate when people claim going all grain is more expensive. That's just plain wrong. The equipment can be as cheap or as expensive as you like. My mash tun was $15. If you want to stay from AG because you don't have space, you like your extract beer, or you don't have an extra 30 minutes to devote to brewing then that's acceptable. But, claiming monetary reasons when you're paying a "premium" to brew extract is not a good reason to stay away from AG.

I couldn't make a good extract batch for the life of me lol. So I switched to AG because people said it allowed more control and I couldn't agree more. I've been much happier with my beer since switching.

 

[homebrewer_99]

The light at the end of the tunnel is a train running over your wallet. I do AG, PM, and extract. I have a strong preference for PM. Using easily stored DME instead of grain for the bulk of the sugars just makes sense in my book.

I totally agree.

I haven't done an all DME brew in a year or so, but I've done them since 1994.

I do find the taste of a PM better though.

 

[wildwest450]

Most of the elitist AG pricks I have met wish they could make beer that good.

Just because people choose not to go all grain, that doesn't make those of us who do, pricks.

 

[humann_brewing]

I've actually wanted to do a extract brew quite often but then change my mind when I start looking at extract prices. I just can't bring myself to pay that much for sugar.

 

[PicoD42]

Just because people choose not to go all grain, that doesn't make those of us who do, pricks.

He wasn't calling all-grain brewers pricks, he was calling elitist pricks, pricks. He was replying to my post, in which I said (in part): "the elitist attitude of 'if you're using extract you're not really brewing' is what has kept me away from a certain club in my area."

 

[Bassman]

One thing I noticed is that several people have said that it only takes 30 minutes to brew AG. If the mash takes 30 minutes and you still need to sparge and lauter, how does that equal 30 minutes? Plus there is more cleanup. Granted, you can clean while waiting for the boil to start but you may have other things to focus on.

I brewed years ago and I feel I jumped to AG too early, i.e. I did not have certain fundamentals down before going AG. I recently came back and decided to focus on extract for several reasons. One of the reasons was already mentioned in terms of my past mistakes. Another reason is that I have a busy life, as do most other people. I work ( thank God! ), play music ( thank God ) and play poker ( then I pray to the poker gods ), so time is a premium. Another reason is space. I live in a NYC 1 bedroom apartment and I have 5 basses, 2 guitars, a keyboard among other things.

I have a long way to go as a brewer, but for now it is extract with specialty grains. I even get my specialty grains crushed at the LHBS.

Brew how you please.

 

[Mermaid]

So here's my $.15 from someone who is more or less brand new to homebrewing...

I live in an apartment with a somewhat crappy kitchen. It's big enough, but the stove is a 20 year old gas stove. I don't really have a garage, or a safe "porch" to set up a turkey fryer on (not to mention, the landlord would be angry if I set the porch on fire).

To cut to the chase, the logistics and investment of going AG at this point in time is too much for me.

I started to think, how can I make better beer that could be a happy medium between AG and extract - do a partial.

I'm looking into how to convert part of an extract recipe to partial grain. Figuring the biggest investment would be a second pot.

Depending on the style of beer you're doing, extracts may create exactly what you want and as long as you and your friends enjoy what you're brewing - that's the ticket.



But if you ever want to experiment, consider trying a partial.

 

[joety]

That said, there's a bit more mental effort that goes into AG, and it is a half hour longer.

What the heck am I doing wrong? When I started AG a couple years ago, it took me 7 hours. I've since got it down to 5, including prep and cleanup. Extract brewing never took longer than 2 1/2 hours.

 

[passedpawn]

I would never brew extract (or PM) again. I did about 10 non-AG batches, and the last 35 have been AG.

It has nothing to do with the quality of the final product. I just really really like all the steps of brewing, aid I wouldn't want to leave any of them out. I love milling my grains, and dumping that steaming tun into the woods behind my house. I don't have any logistics issues (I always brew outdoors).

 

[SumnerH]

What the heck am I doing wrong? When I started AG a couple years ago, it took me 7 hours. I've since got it down to 5, including prep and cleanup. Extract brewing never took longer than 2 1/2 hours.

5 hours seems really long. Literally the only difference between an extract + steeping brew and a BiaB all-grain brew is that I control the BiaB temperature more and it goes a full hour instead of 1/2 hour. So it's pretty much exactly 1/2 hour longer for an AG brew day than an extract + steeping day, by definition.

If you don't have specialty grains, then the difference gets a bit bigger (at least another 1/2 hour).

 

[Burgs]

A few months ago I was convinced I wouldn't do extract anymore and was going to try a sort of BIAB mashing in a cooler type AG setup. I was so convinced I took my two remaining extract kits and just combined them into a 10 gallon batch that we brewed on my buddy's keggle, just to "get rid of them".

I've done two more extract batches since then so I don't really know what happened with that plan, but both batches have been really, really good.

I think the main thing that's keeping me doing extract batches is that I always end up brewing during the week for some reason, and I'm to the point now where I can get home from work and get going around 5pm and get a batch done and totally cleaned up by 9.

I definitely believe both methods can produce excellent beers!

 

[weirdboy]

Just because people choose not to go all grain, that doesn't make those of us who do, pricks.

*sigh*

I am specifically referring to a certain class of people who claim that AG is the only way to go because it makes better beer.

Or do you really think I'm calling myself a prick?

 

[wildwest450]

Or do you really think I'm calling myself a prick?

Maybe, I know I did.

 

[ronjer]

I still do extract after going AG....like every other batch. I don't have time to do AG all the time, and my extract beers have been perfected (uses term loosely). I have about 4 to 4.5 hrs for an AG compared to about 2 to 2.5 hrs for an extract for the complete session with cleanup, etc.
In the immortal words of Chuck Berry "It's a free country Baby, live like you want to live"

 

[passedpawn]

I'm sure you can brew a fine beer with this:



But if you like brewing, do you think this is getting the most out of the experience?

 

[MeatyPortion]

It's still a better deal than buying store bought.

5 gallons of the partial mash Orval clone I'm getting ready to brew will come to about $60

5 gallons of store bought = roughly $325

 

[joety]

5 hours seems really long. Literally the only difference between an extract + steeping brew and a BiaB all-grain brew is that I control the BiaB temperature more and it goes a full hour instead of 1/2 hour. So it's pretty much exactly 1/2 hour longer for an AG brew day than an extract + steeping day, by definition.

If you don't have specialty grains, then the difference gets a bit bigger (at least another 1/2 hour).

Measuring and milling grain while strike water is heating - half hour
Mash in - hour to ninety minutes, recipe dependent
mash out - ten minutes
Fly sparge - half hour
boil and beyond - maybe half an hour longer than extract if you weren't doing a full boil before, no difference if you were

That's anywhere from two hours and ten minutes longer on up.

 

[Homercidal]

For me the question is more like, "Why wouldn't I want to go AG?"

If you like fast and simple, then extract is both and can make a damn fine beer (nothing I've ever made, but a friend has and I've come close right before going AG).

If you want to get a bit more hands-on, and be able to adjust the flavors in your beer, do PM. It's just about the same as extract.

If you want to do a full-on AG, then BIAB is the real deal, just easier and with no real additional cost.

If you want to spend a bit, to a bunch, more money, then buy or build an MLT, Burner, Mill, etc... The sky is the limit.

A "standard" AG setup should cost less than $150 if you go cheap. Corona Mill, like $25, Cooler MLT, $50. Turkey Fryer, $50. Skip the mill if you buy your grain pre-crushed (but buying bulk grain can save a bunch!)

So cost should not be a factor. Fun should be the factor. Frankly, if I didnt' have all day to enjoy my brewing, I'd rather not brew at all (until the beer runs out!). But I enjoy the 6 hours of brewing. Planning the recipe, measuring, crushing, mixing, sparging, etc. It's all fun for me.

So do what you like, but I think you really owe it to yourself to read up on and try your hand at AG, even if it's the simple BIAB method to start with. It's fun!

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

For me the question is more like, "Why wouldn't I want to go AG?"

If you like fast and simple, then extract is both and can make a damn fine beer (nothing I've ever made, but a friend has and I've come close right before going AG).

If you want to get a bit more hands-on, and be able to adjust the flavors in your beer, do PM. It's just about the same as extract.

If you want to do a full-on AG, then BIAB is the real deal, just easier and with no real additional cost.

If you want to spend a bit, to a bunch, more money, then buy or build an MLT, Burner, Mill, etc... The sky is the limit.

A "standard" AG setup should cost less than $150 if you go cheap. Corona Mill, like $25, Cooler MLT, $50. Turkey Fryer, $50. Skip the mill if you buy your grain pre-crushed (but buying bulk grain can save a bunch!)

So cost should not be a factor. Fun should be the factor. Frankly, if I didnt' have all day to enjoy my brewing, I'd rather not brew at all (until the beer runs out!). But I enjoy the 6 hours of brewing. Planning the recipe, measuring, crushing, mixing, sparging, etc. It's all fun for me.

So do what you like, but I think you really owe it to yourself to read up on and try your hand at AG, even if it's the simple BIAB method to start with. It's fun!

Great post! All the pros and cons in a nutshell!

 

[SumnerH]

Measuring and milling grain while strike water is heating - half hour
Mash in - hour to ninety minutes, recipe dependent

I buy premilled grain. Measuring it out doesn't add any time since that's done while the water was heating, which was previously dead time (actually if you buy from brewmasterswarehouse it shows up pre-measured for you, plus you're only buying exactly the needed amounts instead of in full lb increments).

My typical mash is an hour, but replaces the 1/2 hour steep so it's only 1/2 hour longer. Some recipes (e.g. my saisons) do have a 90 minute mash, though.

mash out - ten minutes
Fly sparge - half hour

"Fly Sparge" doesn't apply to BiaB brewing which is what I was talking about. There's no real separate mashout step either--the grain's pulled directly from the mash to the 170F sparge (to fix the enzymes in the grain/sparge), where it batch sparges while the brew kettle (nee mash tun) is heating (which fixes things there).

Basically, by eliminating the wort transfer you can overlap the sparge time with the heating of the brew kettle and not lose any time.

No extra time here, so still just 1/2 hour longer total for a typical brew.

boil and beyond - maybe half an hour longer than extract if you weren't doing a full boil before, no difference if you were

Yeah, moving from partial boil to full boil can add a bit more time (or save it, if the burner you use is much more powerful than the stovetop burner you were using before); that's independent of all grain vs. extract.

Certainly some of my all-grain brews, when I'm doing a complicated decoction with my 3-vessel setup, can take a lot longer than a typical extract day. The point is, though, that all-grain doesn't have to take a lot longer or use a lot of equipment; for 80% or so of my brews, I go BiaB to save time and effort and it's only marginally different from extract + steeping grains.

 

[joety]

I go BiaB to save time and effort and it's only marginally different from extract + steeping grains.

Yeah, I probably should "add back" some time for steeping specialty grains, so I'm probably looking net/net at two hours flat. BiaB does sound quicker.

I stock five base grains (MO, Domestic 2-row, Munich, Belgian Pils and Golden Promise), over 30 specialty grains and a dozen hop varieties in bulk. I do it because I have the room and I like to be able to just pick up a package of yeast at NB and brew on a couple days notice, but it does take extra time on brew day to do all the measuring and such.

 

[jgln]

Ok, you need to leave now, get out!!!


.....just kidding.

 

[Grasslands]

I'm 7 months and 15 batches of extract (save for 3 versions of EdWort's apfelwein) in and I'm considering going AG - for a few reasons:

1. the primary one being that I have a pipe-dream of becoming a professional brewer someday, and having at least a base knowledge of AG is an absolute must,

2. Like others have said, I enjoy the extra steps that go into AG - I always brew on Friday nights or during the weekend, so I've got the time and space, and

3. Control over my variables/ingredients/overall batch costs/etc.

If I didn't dream of someday owning my own brewpub, I'd probably be extremely content with extract brewing and maybe a PM here or there. With that said, as others have stated in this thread (and I'm sure you've got their point by now), there are different strokes for different folks. I'm sure you wouldn't ask your friends if you should "like" watching sports live as opposed to at home or in a bar, would you? Personal preference is everything. Do what feels most comfortable to you. If you do things right, you'll almost always make good beer.

 

[Randar]

As others have noted, staying extract has it's advantages of ease and convenience. But having switched over not that long ago, I can't imagine going back. I am a bit of a kit collector, so of course I welcomed the opportunity to expand my equipment inventory, but the control over factors like subtle flavors, color, and IMO complexity is something that sets it apart for me. Being able to brew a more varied set of styles with similar base ingredients is a big factor.

Additionally, the family/friend demand for my brews outgrew my extract setup and if I was going to go big and start doing larger batches, I might as well learn and figure out this whole AG dealio.

And I did the math for my setup in terms of cost per gallon. It turned out I could brew for about 1/3rd the material cost by going bulk-buy all-grain.

 

[joety]

And I did the math for my setup in terms of cost per gallon. It turned out I could brew for about 1/3rd the material cost by going bulk-buy all-grain.

I have no doubt you've been able to realize those kind of savings, but my guess is two factors are buying bulk hops from some place like Hopsdirect.com and washing yeast. Neither one of those has anything to do with all grain.

 

[CrookedTail]

Do whatever works for you.

Time and space have dictated that I stick with extract (with a few PM batches thrown in here and there). I've brewed some great beers using both methods, so it's all gravy.

 

[Tlylebrew]

I think most people don't put in the opportunity costs when brewing beer, but it doesn't matter I say do what you like. Possibly someday I will go AG, but not anytime soon. I'm having a blast with PM and using Extract.

I know that from start to finish with an extract batch it takes me roughly 3 hours, that includes a quick cleanup at the end. I am guessing going all grain will bring that up to five hours just because of the additional time doing AG then you have the additional cleanup. Nice thread.. Makes you think.

 

[bernerbrau]

I was perfectly happy brewing extract beers, but then due to a weird breakdown in communication, I bought all-grain ingredients for a group brew day before figuring out that my brew buddy was also an extract brewer and did not have all-grain gear. So, we went on a little field trip and bought a 5-gallon cooler and a cooler conversion kit, and I was an all-grain brewer.

I'll be honest. I love all-grain brewing 10x as much as extract brewing. But it does take me about 5 hours longer to finish a batch, and I'll do an extract brew every once in a while if I'm interested in keeping the pipeline alive without doing all the work.

TL;DR I became an AG brewer by accident. It's great, but do what works for you.

 

[Synovia]

I extract brew. I appreciate the convienience of extract brew. I know I pay a premium on ingredients, but at the same time I don't have to invest a ton of money into the gear to go all grain.

Is it ok that I like extract brewing, or do I just need to see the light and go AG?

Of course its fine, but the idea that you need to spend a ton of money on gear to go AG is ludicrous.