Is it a leak or is this normal?

[KennyPowers55]

My last two 5lb CO2 swaps have only lasted a week. I have had 2-3 beers on tap and I also cleaned a couple of kicked kegs by partially filling them with PBW, shake, pump out with CO2, StarSan, shake, pump out with CO2 again. Is this normal? My setup before was a single tap going to a 15 Gallon commercial keg so there was no cleaning. A CO2 fill would last a few kegs, but I was never wasting air cleaning them out.

My primary goes into a taprite 3 body secondary, and one line off of that goes to a dual manifold.

They charge $35 a swap so this is turning into an expensive problem. Do I just spray with Star San and look for leaks or is there something blatant I am missing.

Thanks.

 

[kev211]

Are you saying that you've now used 10lbs of CO2 on a total of 2-3 kegs? Cuz if so, then yes it sounds like a leak. Typically i can carb and push about 6-8 five gal kegs with a 5lb tank. Now while Im not using it to push during cleaning I still think it sounds like you have a leak. I think it wouldnt hurt to break out the spray bottle. Keep in mind that while the starsan spray technique can help a lot of the times, it wont always fine a leak, so you may have to try other methods (like dunking your system in water) to find the leak

 

[volsherdeers]

Submerge gauges and all, in a solution of starsan for a few seconds!
If no bubbles there then check hose and keg connections!

 

[pvpeacock]

You definitely have a leak.

 

[jerbrew]

LEAK! Isolate and vanquish that sucker!

 

[KennyPowers55]

Are you saying that you've now used 10lbs of CO2 on a total of 2-3 kegs? Cuz if so, then yes it sounds like a leak. Typically i can carb and push about 6-8 five gal kegs with a 5lb tank. Now while Im not using it to push during cleaning I still think it sounds like you have a leak. I think it wouldnt hurt to break out the spray bottle. Keep in mind that while the starsan spray technique can help a lot of the times, it wont always fine a leak, so you may have to try other methods (like dunking your system in water) to find the leak

I also have my primary set to 30lbs for force carbing, which I have done with 2 kegs over these 2 weeks. Not sure if that matters or not.

 

[TX_Brewing]

Seriously, you have a leak, my 10lb tank has dispensed about 10 kegs so far.

 

[Elkobrewer]

Yep you have a leak. 35 bucks!!!! Holy cow I would find somewhere different to buy from. I pay 13

 

[kev211]

Ya that's a leak. Find it, destroy it, drink good beer

 

[KennyPowers55]

Yep you have a leak. 35 bucks!!!! Holy cow I would find somewhere different to buy from. I pay 13

I used to pay about that much when I lived in a different state. They would also refill the bottle I brought to them, instead of swapping them out. After calling around to the local places, the price I pay now seems to be the norm.

 

[Elkobrewer]

Well dang. I guess it's the price we pay for making fresh awesome beer. Now go track down that leak

 

[day_trippr]

[...]I have had 2-3 beers on tap and I also cleaned a couple of kicked kegs by partially filling them with PBW, shake, pump out with CO2, StarSan, shake, pump out with CO2 again.[...]

Considering what you're paying for gas, you really should find another way to clean your kegs.

I've been kegging for a decade and have never used CO2 to clean kegs...and I pay about half what you're paying for gas...

Cheers!

 

[KennyPowers55]

Considering what you're paying for gas, you really should find another way to clean your kegs.

I've been kegging for a decade and have never used CO2 to clean kegs...and I pay about half what you're paying for gas...

Cheers!

I would love not to use air to clean the kegs but I don't know of another way. Off to google I guess.

Should I be Teflon taping the threads on the outputs of the secondary regulator? Currently they are not taped.

 

[IslandLizard]

I would love not to use air to clean the kegs but I don't know of another way. Off to google I guess.

Should I be Teflon taping the threads on the outputs of the secondary regulator? Currently they are not taped.

There is no need to use CO2 to clean kegs. The lid comes off, the posts can be removed to clean everything inside: fill, scrub, dump. A long dip tube brush is indispensable, also good for cleaning hoses.

The only time you would need CO2 is if you want to do a 100% CO2 purge of the keg. After cleaning, and mounting all the posts hardware, you'd fill it all the way to the top with Starsan solution, mount the lid, then push all the Starsan out with CO2. That way it only takes 5.5 gallons of CO2. The lid remains on, you fill the keg with beer through the liquid out post using a QD.

Aside from that, you will need CO2 for purging headspaces of non-purged kegs, carbonation and dispensing. Purging headspaces can cost you a lot more than 5.5 gallons of CO2 if there's more than 1/2 gallon of headspace.

At $35 a fill/swap for 5# there must be better places. Getting a 20# tank is often the better solution, as the cost of fills may run the same or only a few bucks more than 10#. CO2 is very cheap, wholesale. Retail it goes for around $1 per pound plus a filling/handling charge.

What's your location?

When I called around, I was quoted anywhere from $20-$63 for filling my 20# tank. Most were between $20 and $30, but the paintball place ($63) was charging by the ounce, not per pound! <ugh>. I got mine filled for $22 at a fire protection company. It had turned into $28 there the last time, still manageable, though, and I can wait there while they fill. I'm looking for alternatives now.

All threads should be teflon taped, except compression and flare fittings. Sometimes a single turn of thin (white) teflon tape on a compression fitting or flare fitting helps to lubricate it, but it can't be used to provide a seal there.

 

[55x11]

I would love not to use air to clean the kegs but I don't know of another way. Off to google I guess.

Should I be Teflon taping the threads on the outputs of the secondary regulator? Currently they are not taped.

Just pour out the PBW solution as you would from a bucket - lid open and all. Wash it like you would a cooking pot. Only use CO2 for pushing the starsan out to purge the keg.

Pushing starsan out with CO2 should consume 60g of CO2 (assuming 7-8 psi to push out).
If you carb to 2.5 volumes that should consume 93g of CO2 in 5G keg.
And you end with 60g of CO2 again after you empty the beer.
Total of about 220g of CO2 per keg.

5 lbs CO2 tank (2.26 kg) should last about 10 kegs this way.

If you are constantly pushing PBW for cleaning and doing it with high pressure, you may increase your usage by a factor of 2-3, so maybe your CO2 lasting 2-3 kegs is not that surprising (you may not have a leak after all, or very subtle one). But I would still look into it. Disconnect the gas and see if kegs drop pressure.

Finally, call around for better prices. Maybe AirGas if you have one around?
My local AirGas fills 5lb for $24, about the same as it cost me to fill 20lb CO2 tank! ($29). So maybe look into getting bigger tank to save $?

 

[KennyPowers55]

I am in the Berkshires in Massachusetts. The welding supply place and the AirGas had about the same price for a 5# tank swap (if I remember correctly). I have a 20# tank but I am a wimp and don't want to swap out my shiny new tank. It just seems like a racket to me. When I used to go to a place in RI, they would just fill the tank for you right there, and it was only $15 for a 5# tank. There is a local fire safety place who said they would fill my 20# for $50, I just haven't done it yet.

I checked for leaks and couldn't find any bubbles. I did tighten all of the connectors off of the secondary, and replaced a gasket on one of the kegs that seemed like it was having trouble sealing. I also replaced a hose clamp.

 

[KennyPowers55]

Just pour out the PBW solution as you would from a bucket - lid open and all. Wash it like you would a cooking pot. Only use CO2 for pushing the starsan out to purge the keg.

Pushing starsan out with CO2 should consume 60g of CO2 (assuming 7-8 psi to push out).
If you carb to 2.5 volumes that should consume 93g of CO2 in 5G keg.
And you end with 60g of CO2 again after you empty the beer.
Total of about 220g of CO2 per keg.

5 lbs CO2 tank (2.26 kg) should last about 10 kegs this way.

If you are constantly pushing PBW for cleaning and doing it with high pressure, you may increase your usage by a factor of 2-3, so maybe your CO2 lasting 2-3 kegs is not that surprising (you may not have a leak after all, or very subtle one). But I would still look into it. Disconnect the gas and see if kegs drop pressure.

Finally, call around for better prices. Maybe AirGas if you have one around?
My local AirGas fills 5lb for $24, about the same as it cost me to fill 20lb CO2 tank! ($29). So maybe look into getting bigger tank to save $?

How can I tell if the keg drops pressure?

When you say AirGas fills, do you mean like they fill the tank you bring them, or do a swap?

 

[55x11]

How can I tell if the keg drops pressure?

When you say AirGas fills, do you mean like they fill the tank you bring them, or do a swap?

AirGas can do either. Swap is a little easier for them, you may have to wait for the fill.

I do several different tests. With keg, when empty, I fill it with CO2 and disconnect and let it sit for a few days. If the pressure is still there and holding strong, it's probably not leaking (at least not fast). I also do a test of disconnecting CO2 at the tank and watching secondary regulator pressure that is connected to ~8 kegs - if it's stable over a day or so (it will drop if you are actively carbonating new keg, or if you keep drawing pints), it means there is no major leak. You can check the connecting gas lines/connectors the same way - disconnect from keg, pressurize, turn off CO2 from the tank, wait a while, see if the pressure is still there. Spraying with starsan or soapy solution and watching for bubbles is good too. Submerging under water (can do with entire keg and lines) is good as well.