Is he right?

[millhouse46]

I asked my home brew shop for a cork for the top of a 5 gallon water cooler bottle. He said he would sell it to me but did not recomend it because they deteriorate, crack, and eventually leak. He also mentioned the plastics breaking down and blending with the beer. I trust him and passed on the cork but wanted to get some second and third ect. Opinions on this. He said this would happen with other "food grade" buckets you can get at the store or from resturants. He said they aren't made to handel alcohol. What do you think? Thanks for the input.

 

[beninan]

Nope.

Well, I'm assuming you are talking about a plastic or a rubber cork, also known as a stopper (or drilled stopper if it has a hole). I can't speak about the effects of a wooden cork, but if I were to guess, I would say those are completely fine, as wines and Belgian beers use them.

As for the plastics- that's wrong information as well. Have you ever bought hard alcohol in plastic containers? Those have a MUCH higher concentration of alcohol, and those don't melt on the grocery store shelves. Plastic buckets are perfectly fine for brewing alcoholic beverages.

 

[Revvy]

We've been using rubber and plastic stoppers on our fermenters for years with no issues.

 

[Zamial]

I did some deep searching on the "off white" rubbery stoppers. Turns out they are made of a food grade blend of rubber and silicon. I hear through the grapevine that these can be and are used in homemade WATER distillers at the top of the device, which will reach temps well past boiling...

I use one in my mash tun false bottom as seen here in post #24: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/cut-keg-top-false-bottom-192413/index3.html and have had no issues with it at all.

I have been using them in my glass carboys and sanke fermenters as well. I would suspect being in direct sunlight may, over a long period of time, dry them out.

As for plastics...that is a huge debate about just what leeches into the beer from the plastics (as in Better bottles, water bubblers (aka water dispensers with the thing that looks like a modern carboy upside down on top), and buckets. I would never use black plastic or colored plastic for food or drink but the general agreement is the rest are "safe" depending on the HDPE number stamped into the bottom. I am not going to say what I think about what plastics and what are safe or not as that is, has and continues to be one of the longest debates on this forum. As long as the unspoken "neutrality" continues I am good with that. If this subject interests you please search for it and read the stickies on "this vs. that" it is impossible to miss!

Ps. When naming threads try to be a bit more specific, your title is vague and androgynous...

 

[mattd2]

...the general agreement is the rest are "safe" depending on the HDPE number stamped into the bottom. ...

Just FYI you mean the Plastic (can't think of a better word) number, HDPE is a type of plastic (number 5 I think).

 

[TotemWolf]

First of all you need a new HBS. If you want to buy it he should sell it.

Second, he is wrong. (see above)


Maybe he was hoping to get you to buy a Better Bottle.

 

[Stevo2569]

HDPE is #2, PET or PETE are both #1 I think. #5 and #7 Are the worst for leaching and affect the endocrine system. Which is bad. There are 100 's of articles out there, some are conflicting, that tell about each plastic # and their percentages of risks. Just google it.

 

[Caucasian]

#7 is typically what water cooler bottles are. If i remember correctly it refers to its inability to be recycled.

 

[onthekeg]

Nope.

Well, I'm assuming you are talking about a plastic or a rubber cork, also known as a stopper (or drilled stopper if it has a hole). I can't speak about the effects of a wooden cork, but if I were to guess, I would say those are completely fine, as wines and Belgian beers use them.

As for the plastics- that's wrong information as well. Have you ever bought hard alcohol in plastic containers? Those have a MUCH higher concentration of alcohol, and those don't melt on the grocery store shelves. Plastic buckets are perfectly fine for brewing alcoholic beverages.

No worries with cork. Nor with plastic, such as HDPE. Your LHBS is a little off the deep end I would gather.

 

[JefeTheVol]

Isnt the OP talking about actual cork, not the synthetic rubber/silicon ones? If you are talking about actual cork, the organic material, than the owner is right. Regular cork will crack and deteriorate over time as it dries out. That is one of the reasons wineries store wine bottles on their side. As long as the cork stays moist it will last longer.

As for the leaching of chemicals from 5 gallon plastic water coolers, the jury is out. According to the European Union, there are regulations using BPA (bisphenol A) in plastics used to store products for human consumption. In the United States, "food grade" generally refers to plastics that do not leach any harmful chemicals and therefore are generally free of BPA, even in the presence of a solvent such as EtOH.

Plus, in beer, water is generally considered the solvent and not ethanol, considering that only ~5% is ethanol. The EtOH molecules are surrounded by H2O molecules in solution and would rarely be given the opportunity to dissolve hazardous chemicals more than H20 itself.
-Jefe-

 

[Stevo2569]

#7 is typically what water cooler bottles are. If i remember correctly it refers to its inability to be recycled.

Correct, also a one time use from what I have read, also UV and heat speed up the leaching ability of #7.

OP:
Stoppers are fine and cork is not.

 

[nefarious_1_]

Correct, also a one time use from what I have read, also UV and heat speed up the leaching ability of #7.

OP:
Stoppers are fine and cork is not.

I sure hope not. Pretty sure the new Nalgene bottles are #7 and I (along with many co-workers) have them out on a boat in the hot sun quite often.

At least they're PBA free now (or so they claim)



-1 cork.

+1 rubber stopper.

 

[Catt22]

I think the OP (and the HBS) is referring to the water bottle, not the stopper (cork).

 

[cheezydemon3]

#7 is typically what water cooler bottles are. If i remember correctly it refers to its inability to be recycled.

nope

I think the OP (and the HBS) is referring to the water bottle, not the stopper (cork).

right on!


HOLY HELL!!!!!!


Almost everyone failed to read the OP.

#7 Bottles should NOT be used to ferment in.

#7 refers to "non food safe plastic".

It would probably have to be heated to leach **** into the beer, but alcohol does have serious leaching abilities.

NOT IN MY BEER.

Keep the LHBS.

 

[nefarious_1_]

nope

Yes. http://earth911.com/recycling/plastic/number-7-plastic/facts-about-plastic-7/





At least someone figured out what OP was referring to...

 

[cheezydemon3]

Yes. http://earth911.com/recycling/plastic/number-7-plastic/facts-about-plastic-7/





At least someone figured out what OP was referring to...

I see plastic without codes, and figure it is non recyclable. Why label something if it isn't recyclable?

Oh well. BPA BAAAAAD. Or at least I will play it safe and stay away from it.

 

[millhouse46]

Thanks for the posts everyone! I am asking about the plastic water bottles though. I want to reuse a 5 gallon water bottle for a primary or secondary fermentation. My wording was a little unclear in the OP. I wanted to buy a rubber stopper for a 5 gallon water cooler bottle and the HBS owner suggested against it. It is tinted blue and he said that the plastic would not hold up to the alcohol because it is a solvant and would break down, crack, and leak. He also mentioned the possibility of the chemicals leaching into the beer itself as a result of the the alcohol breaking down the plastic. He also said the same thing for other food grade plastic buckets you get from restaurants. Has anyone experienced or heard the same thing. Thanks again.

 

[Revvy]

Thanks for the posts everyone! I am asking about the plastic water bottles though. I want to reuse a 5 gallon water bottle for a primary or secondary fermentation. My wording was a little unclear in the OP. I wanted to buy a rubber stopper for a 5 gallon water cooler bottle and the HBS owner suggested against it. It is tinted blue and he said that the plastic would not hold up to the alcohol because it is a solvant and would break down, crack, and leak. He also mentioned the possibility of the chemicals leaching into the beer itself as a result of the the alcohol breaking down the plastic. He also said the same thing for other food grade plastic buckets you get from restaurants. Has anyone experienced or heard the same thing. Thanks again.

A lot of what he's saying is outdated information and opinion to get you to buy glass. It happens all the time. Especially from retailers.

But since the advent of the Better Bottle, and the BPA recalls which seems to have caused a lot of number 7s in the market to be replaced with <2> or <3>by the water bottle industry (many of them made by the Better Bottle Compnay) it's not as cut and dried as he may seem to think.

It is perfectly fine to use plastic water bottles or food grade plastic buckets (like frosting buckets), plastic jerry cans (called aquatainers very popular with no-chill brewers ), really anything these days as long as it is made of Pet or HDPE, or labeled with the recycling code on the bottom <2>.

Ther's thousands of threads discussing this on here discussing this. I have quite a few 3 gallon <2> water bottles I ferment small batches in . And even in homebrewing books the authors say it is perfectly fine to get FREE frosting and soy sauce buckets from grocery stores to make beer in.

Hey, did you happen to notice that he poopooed using anything free, anything that you wouldn't have to but from HIM? I think that's more the point of the "advice" rather than anything of merit.

If you can get them, use them.

 

[bad coffee]

only thing I have to add is

DO NOT USE PICKLE BUCKETS.

B

 

[Revvy]

only thing I have to add is

DO NOT USE PICKLE BUCKETS.

B

Yeah I meant to mention that. Thanks for catching it.

 

[IffyG]

only thing I have to add is

DO NOT USE PICKLE BUCKETS.

B

What if I wanted a pickle flavored pale ale? haha