I currently do extract brewing with partial mashing if the recipe calls for it. my main question in deciding on if all grain brewing is worth the extra equipment, time, etc. I know the quality is better with all grain generally if you know what your are doing but have never done any all grain brews, so my main question is it worth the extra hour or 2 you have in an all grain brew day vs. doing an extract brew
Is going all grain worth it ?
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thatjonguy
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Maybe...I would focus on controlling fermention (temp control, oxygenation, pitching proper amount) first.
If you already have that....go for it. You gave total control over mouthfeel, instead of relying on the extract manufacturer.
If you already have that....go for it. You gave total control over mouthfeel, instead of relying on the extract manufacturer.
cheezydemon3
Well-Known Member
You can make beer that is just as good as AG with Partial Mash brewing. AG is cheaper but requires full boil (normally) and has more that can go wrong.
Not worth it for ME.
I prefer to brew stove top for time/ability to watch kids and brew.
I prefer to chill by topping off with ice for ease and because I don't want to buy and store a wort chiller.
Not worth it for ME.
I prefer to brew stove top for time/ability to watch kids and brew.
I prefer to chill by topping off with ice for ease and because I don't want to buy and store a wort chiller.
hotspurdotus
Well-Known Member
I'm a recent AG convert. I'd say it really depends on what you're after. If you just want to make your own beer and you're concerned about the extra time and cost, you might want to skip AG brewing. If you are fascinated by the brewing process itself and want to learn more, I would highly recommend it.
Do you have any friends or a local club that AG brew? You might want to sit in on an AG brewing session or two before heading down that road.
Do you have any friends or a local club that AG brew? You might want to sit in on an AG brewing session or two before heading down that road.
Whether or not it is worth it depends on what you want to get out of your brewing. First off you do not get higher quality by doing all grain. Most extracts out there today are of a very high quality, and you can make beer just as good as with all grain.
Your all grain ingredients (grains) are probably 30-35% less expensive than buying extract, but that comes at a cost of more expensive equipment, and more time required to brew. How often you brew will determine if it is worth it financially.
To me what you gain the most with all grain is pin point control of your recipe. You can choose any grain you want in any percentage and dial it in to the result you want. With extract, and complex recipes, you'll need partial mashing or steeping to get the flavors you need into the wort. I think having to do some grains separately from boiling your extract is a pain in the butt. That's just me.
Some people enjoy the greater level of control and involvement in all grain, and some enjoy the simplicity and shorter brew day of extract and steeping. I'd recommend finding a buddy who does all grain and ask him to let you do a trial batch or two on his system and see how you like it. You can make great beer either way, so find out what you enjoy , and work on your process to perfect it.
Your all grain ingredients (grains) are probably 30-35% less expensive than buying extract, but that comes at a cost of more expensive equipment, and more time required to brew. How often you brew will determine if it is worth it financially.
To me what you gain the most with all grain is pin point control of your recipe. You can choose any grain you want in any percentage and dial it in to the result you want. With extract, and complex recipes, you'll need partial mashing or steeping to get the flavors you need into the wort. I think having to do some grains separately from boiling your extract is a pain in the butt. That's just me.
Some people enjoy the greater level of control and involvement in all grain, and some enjoy the simplicity and shorter brew day of extract and steeping. I'd recommend finding a buddy who does all grain and ask him to let you do a trial batch or two on his system and see how you like it. You can make great beer either way, so find out what you enjoy , and work on your process to perfect it.
william_shakes_beer
Well-Known Member
I recently switched from extract and steeping grains to all grain by way of partial mash. First i did a PM by grabbing an AG recipie that interested me, removing half the base malt and replacing it with extract in the correct propostion (not a 1 for 1 swap) then I did a small beer that was AG with about 7 LBS of grains. The last batch was pure AG with an 11 pound grain bill. I really had to add no additional equipment. I already had a 5 Lb paint strainer and a 7.5 gallon brew pot. I did do a dunk sparge and drained the first runnings into my BK to free up the pot to heat sparge. I ended up adding 1 LB extract to get up to my desired OG. I can add a MLT later if i feel like it, but not necessary IMHO. There's all kinds of things in between Extract and AG. No need to jump to a new ship, more like walking along a sidewalk.
BrewinHooligan
Well-Known Member
I only brewed 4 extract batches before converting to all grain and they were Mr Beer pre-hopped kits at that. It was worth it for me becuase I like having complete control over making the beer. I still manage to do full sized boils on my stove and can cool from boiling to pitching temps in 30 minutes with an ice bath. I converted a cooler I had lying around unused to a mash tun for about $15 so the cost to make the change was minimal for me. I agree that great beer can be made from extract, I just personally felt like I was cheating when I did.
If you have to ask, then its probably not going to be good for you.
Golddiggie
Well-Known Member
IMO, it's 200% worth it...
Benefits (as I see them)...
Recipe control: You KNOW what's in the brew with 100% certainty. With extract, you'll never really know what's in it for grains, or what temperature it was mashed at.
Process control: Mashing at the temp YOU want gives you different results. For one thing, you can experiment with the exact same recipe, mashing at different temperatures to see what you get.
Quality control: 'nuf said.
I see it akin to cooking. Sure, you can get stuff from a jar/can, heat it up and maybe make a side dish and call it your own. But it's not really, and it will only be as good as the canned/jar ingredients. With all grain, you're making it all (the only thing you're not doing is malting the grain). Pasta sauce is a great example. You can do a quick meal from a jar. But you can have an excellent dinner when you make the sauce yourself, from scratch. Having that level of ingredient control means you'll get EXACTLY what you want. Personally, I make my own sauce, so going all grain was a natural progression for me (did it after three extract [with specialty grains] and one partial mash batch). Haven't looked back since.
Benefits (as I see them)...
Recipe control: You KNOW what's in the brew with 100% certainty. With extract, you'll never really know what's in it for grains, or what temperature it was mashed at.
Process control: Mashing at the temp YOU want gives you different results. For one thing, you can experiment with the exact same recipe, mashing at different temperatures to see what you get.
Quality control: 'nuf said.
I see it akin to cooking. Sure, you can get stuff from a jar/can, heat it up and maybe make a side dish and call it your own. But it's not really, and it will only be as good as the canned/jar ingredients. With all grain, you're making it all (the only thing you're not doing is malting the grain). Pasta sauce is a great example. You can do a quick meal from a jar. But you can have an excellent dinner when you make the sauce yourself, from scratch. Having that level of ingredient control means you'll get EXACTLY what you want. Personally, I make my own sauce, so going all grain was a natural progression for me (did it after three extract [with specialty grains] and one partial mash batch). Haven't looked back since.
SamuraiSquirrel
Well-Known Member
Yes, just do it.....
I did two extracts and then switched after watching an all grain "how-to" video. It comes with some frustrations at first but they are all learning experiences. Part of it is that i love building things and tackling all the little diy projects that come with all grain....... this was almost four years ago now.......
I personally think that there are quality improvements to be had my making the switch ........
Is a poorly brewed extract beer worse than a poorly brewed all grain beer - who knows
Is a well brewed extract beer better than a well brewed all grain beer - who knows
What i do know is the majority of the extract brews that i have tasted (both mine and those from fellow brewers) have a distinct taste to where i immediately know they are extract. It is quite possible that i just have never had a well brewed extract beer.
Anyways...... the question is "is it worth it?" The brewing hobby in and of itself (extract or all grain) is not really "worth it" speaking strictly from a financial sense and after factoring in the time involved. It really just depends on whether the additional steps are something you would enjoy or consider a chore......
If the steps involved in brewing an extract batch felt like a chore than you wouldn't brew so I have to assume that since you do brew that you enjoy the process. That being said, this would lead me to believe you would enjoy the additional steps and control that come with all grain.
That's all i got .........
I did two extracts and then switched after watching an all grain "how-to" video. It comes with some frustrations at first but they are all learning experiences. Part of it is that i love building things and tackling all the little diy projects that come with all grain....... this was almost four years ago now.......
I personally think that there are quality improvements to be had my making the switch ........
Is a poorly brewed extract beer worse than a poorly brewed all grain beer - who knows
Is a well brewed extract beer better than a well brewed all grain beer - who knows
What i do know is the majority of the extract brews that i have tasted (both mine and those from fellow brewers) have a distinct taste to where i immediately know they are extract. It is quite possible that i just have never had a well brewed extract beer.
Anyways...... the question is "is it worth it?" The brewing hobby in and of itself (extract or all grain) is not really "worth it" speaking strictly from a financial sense and after factoring in the time involved. It really just depends on whether the additional steps are something you would enjoy or consider a chore......
If the steps involved in brewing an extract batch felt like a chore than you wouldn't brew so I have to assume that since you do brew that you enjoy the process. That being said, this would lead me to believe you would enjoy the additional steps and control that come with all grain.
That's all i got .........
I brewed with extract for 25 years before I went to all grain. The reason it took so long was due to time constraints. I raised 3 kids, worked a lot, had a lot of house and yard projects, and brewing time was at a premium.
Once the kids were older, I had more time. I was brewing a partial mash beer one day when I began thinking about why I brewed at all. The answer was because I enjoyed the process, and it was a hobby. This prompted me to start all grain brewing, regardless of the time commitment, and I have never looked back. I love the process, the control, the feeling that I am using the same process that brewers have used for what, a thousand years?
So, for all the reasons listed by other posters, I say sit and think about why you make beer. The answer to that question will guide you to what process you use to make it.
Once the kids were older, I had more time. I was brewing a partial mash beer one day when I began thinking about why I brewed at all. The answer was because I enjoyed the process, and it was a hobby. This prompted me to start all grain brewing, regardless of the time commitment, and I have never looked back. I love the process, the control, the feeling that I am using the same process that brewers have used for what, a thousand years?
So, for all the reasons listed by other posters, I say sit and think about why you make beer. The answer to that question will guide you to what process you use to make it.
Free time, due to kids, errands, etc., is the reason an occasional extract batch will always be welcome in my brew house!
I actually did my first AG last week and it was really a lot of fun! I have brewed 3 extract batches so far (6 months into brewing so I'm a newbie) and I have noticed that all of the extract brews I have tasted- mine and others - all seem to have that same flavor, Not bad but just what I assume to be the "extract flavor"
So I was really interested in AG and I do find myself obsessing / geeking out about beer, so I just went ahead and started pulling together the equipment to start doing AG and improve my overall process. I built my own mash tun and wort chiller so that saved a little money.
My first AG batch is a Stout, the Mash went flawlessly, and so far it looks and smells great in the carboy.
The cool thing is that now I am thinking about all of the possibilities this opens up for trying new things!! I am not really interested in following recipes so now I can do anything I want without being limited to DME. Plus it is WAY cheaper, I can get a 5 gallon batch for around $25, maybe cheaper if I can lean out my process.
Anyway I say go for it, yes it does take more time and it will get in your wallet a bit up front for the equipment but it is well worth it!
Cheers!
So I was really interested in AG and I do find myself obsessing / geeking out about beer, so I just went ahead and started pulling together the equipment to start doing AG and improve my overall process. I built my own mash tun and wort chiller so that saved a little money.
My first AG batch is a Stout, the Mash went flawlessly, and so far it looks and smells great in the carboy.
The cool thing is that now I am thinking about all of the possibilities this opens up for trying new things!! I am not really interested in following recipes so now I can do anything I want without being limited to DME. Plus it is WAY cheaper, I can get a 5 gallon batch for around $25, maybe cheaper if I can lean out my process.
Anyway I say go for it, yes it does take more time and it will get in your wallet a bit up front for the equipment but it is well worth it!
Cheers!
ron,ar
Well-Known Member
It's kinda like sex by your self versus with a partner...both get you to the same place but one takes a lot more effort and attention with the added
"equipment".
Sorry, I just couldn't resist that
"equipment".
Sorry, I just couldn't resist that
Bernie Brewer
Grouchy Old Fart
The only one that can really answer that question for you is YOU. It was definitely worth it for me, because I wanted to be more involved in the process on brew day. I know folks that have tried it and will never do it again; they didn't like adding 2-3 hours to their brew day. Me, I enjoy that, so it was worth it for me.
Does the idea of converting grains to sugar intrigue you? Or do you not really care? You don't switch to AG because you think it will be cheaper, or because you think it will make your beer better. You do it because it is FUN. If it seems more like work than fun to you, then don't do it. If it sounds fun, then jump in with both feet.
Does the idea of converting grains to sugar intrigue you? Or do you not really care? You don't switch to AG because you think it will be cheaper, or because you think it will make your beer better. You do it because it is FUN. If it seems more like work than fun to you, then don't do it. If it sounds fun, then jump in with both feet.
I just converted to AG primarily because I want to perfect the taste of my beers. With the first sip of my first Extract brew I knew it wasn't quite right. Not metallic, but kind of hallow and "tinny." I read and read and read, then did two more, with the exact same taste. They're pretty good brews, mind you, but for me, not good enough. I enjoy the process immensely, and that enjoyment is amplified when I know that I can make beer that tastes better than something I could buy. So that's what pushes me forward: the satisfaction of making something that tastes amazing.
I've made some damn good beers with extract and some steeping\mini mashing. I've made better beers with AG but I still do both.
Due to the problems keeping things cool for me, I'm doing lots of 2.5 gallon AG batches. Really, it takes almost as much time (about 3.5 hours from start to finish). But, I enjoy it and it's worth it for me.
If you are happy with your brews, don't change anything but I do believe time is money too.
Due to the problems keeping things cool for me, I'm doing lots of 2.5 gallon AG batches. Really, it takes almost as much time (about 3.5 hours from start to finish). But, I enjoy it and it's worth it for me.
If you are happy with your brews, don't change anything but I do believe time is money too.
yes
That's pretty much me too. However, I've made a lot of extract beers that I would consider better than 99% of what is sitting on the shelf at my local store. But AG brewing, as you say, allows me perfect a recipe and make it better than anything on a local store shelf. The last 1% be damned!
F to the N to the A Yes!
jaynik
Well-Known Member
What equipment do you have now?
I have done three all grain batches now and prefer it over extract. It is a few dollars cheaper to do Ag but I like the control of all grain and the sense of accomplishment.
It adds about 90 minutes to my brew day and I am happy with it.
I have done three all grain batches now and prefer it over extract. It is a few dollars cheaper to do Ag but I like the control of all grain and the sense of accomplishment.
It adds about 90 minutes to my brew day and I am happy with it.
I have just started home brewing myself, with only 1-batch under my belt. It was an enjoyable experience, and I've already wanted to go farther with it because of that. So, I've decided to do an all-grain BIAB for my second batch. I figured it's a good "in between" trial before I buy any more equipment. Not sure what your equipment is, but I have a 8.5-gallon kettle, which should get me by for now, and a 50-foot stainless steel wort chiller. I have only needed to add a voile bag and I got a large potato masher today for mashing. There is a great thread on here about BIAB that I read in it's entirety:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/biab-brewing-pics-233289/
as well as the website:
http://www.biabrewer.info/
No one had mentioned the BIAB "in between" route yet, so I thought I'd throw it out there.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/biab-brewing-pics-233289/
as well as the website:
http://www.biabrewer.info/
No one had mentioned the BIAB "in between" route yet, so I thought I'd throw it out there.
Golddiggie
Well-Known Member
Once you have the hardware, the recipes are cheaper to brew. Even more so if you can get your base malt as part of a group grain buy. The LHBS near me, as well as online vendors, typically get about $80 for a sack of 2-row (UK). I can get the exact same grain for less than half of that as part of a group grain buy. The grain portion of my recipes is typically $10-$20 depending on the recipe. Same recipes as extract (with specialty grains) would be $40-$60 (or more)...
periwinkle1239
Well-Known Member
These posts are great. Yes, doing AG brews is absolutely positively worth it. It's lots of effort and you have to be in it to win it!
I've been doing AG for about 6 months after doing extract for 6 months. Of course fermentation - pitching rates and temp are extremely important, but that should go without saying.
If you get your procedure down with mashing and sparging, then AG is everything it's cracked up to be.
Go AG and you'll never go back to extract.
I've been doing AG for about 6 months after doing extract for 6 months. Of course fermentation - pitching rates and temp are extremely important, but that should go without saying.
If you get your procedure down with mashing and sparging, then AG is everything it's cracked up to be.
Go AG and you'll never go back to extract.
ArcticBear
Well-Known Member
I went into all grain after my first batch of beer. (first was a lhbs recipe kit..it turned out pretty good but I did a lot wrong and put too much water) part of what I like with AG is the control you have over everything. I love taking the extra steps to turn out something that I can really be proud of. Certainly pride can be taken from extract brews but my twisted brain likes the extra satisfaction knowing I didn't use anything really premade. There has certainly been a lot of frustration during the learning curve but that's half the fun.
My first extract kit was a chocolate cherry porter with a partial steep and lme and artificial cherry flavor (can't taste the cherry at all)
Even though it was done wrong I liked it so much I just brewed an all grain conversion in 11 gallon style, plan is two rack separately. 1 on 3lbs of cherry purée and 1 on 6lbs of cherry purée. I'm excited to test the results!
My first extract kit was a chocolate cherry porter with a partial steep and lme and artificial cherry flavor (can't taste the cherry at all)
Even though it was done wrong I liked it so much I just brewed an all grain conversion in 11 gallon style, plan is two rack separately. 1 on 3lbs of cherry purée and 1 on 6lbs of cherry purée. I'm excited to test the results!
While I haven't made the jump to AG, I will someday. I will also continue to do plenty of extract brews. I think it's a wonderful thing to do both. Certainly we all have seasons of our lives where time permits us to do AG and other seasons when we are lucky to sneak in an extract brew. Either way produces beer worth being proud of IF the BREWER is good at the process and can control fermentation.
I also found that extract beers tend to be thinner with less mouthfeel than AG. Ultimately I made the move to AG as soon as I had the space to support both the gear and the ancillary equipment for kegging. Moving to lagers also requires some better temperature control as well.
When I share my beers with folks and tell the, I brewed it, and when they taste it, the look of surprise and how much they are enjoying it solidifies the move to AG.
Take the plunge.
When I share my beers with folks and tell the, I brewed it, and when they taste it, the look of surprise and how much they are enjoying it solidifies the move to AG.
Take the plunge.
Nice explanation. I am striving for beer perfection personally. The idea that extract and pellet hops would ever get me there is like thinking Hormel chili is the same as the winner of the chili cook off. Ain't gonna happen folks quit dreaming extracts will ever compare with all grain.
What I find interesting is that for me at least extract brewing flat sucked. Having to reconstitute a thick syrup or a DME is a pain. What's easy about that? Then the crap scorches on your pan if you aren't careful with the heat. Oh boy we are having fun here! Yikes. I did two and switched to AG and have Never Looked Back.
