Is Beekeeping a Constitutional right?

[CreamyGoodness]

I think the Constitution has become a "sacred cow." Much like my other "favorite" sacred cow buzz-word "children" (*full body shudder*) we as a nation (private, public, and news media) often use it when we simply want to say "listen up, folks, this is important!"

It's not a Constitutional right. As people have brought up in this thread, upon reading the document with a magnifying glass and consulting with professors and lawyers, one will find no mention of it. What we are really asking is, "dont you think it is absolutely ridiculous to regulate the keeping of bees when it is so beneficial with such little downside? This makes me mad!"

I know I am sounding uppity (yet again) but I really truly think that when we invoke the name of the Constitution or say "for the good of our children" (God I freaking hate that one), or ask what any number of our forefathers or whatever other historical figure would think about a matter we are cheapening our argument. We are crying wolf.

For the record though, the ordinance against keeping bees mentioned was a steaming pile of nonsense. For the good of our children I say we put up some sort of peaceful protest. After all, THAT is our Constitutional right.

 

[Airplanedoc]

I say we put up some sort of peaceful protest. After all, THAT is our Constitutional right.

But that won't get any news coverage

 

[Pilgarlic]

I'm not asking that anyone adjust their lives so I can keep bees. As I said repeatedly, the measures I'm suggesting (not planting plants that attract things that kill you, not leaving water that attracts things that kill you, and carrying a pen that will provide an antidote against things that kill you) are all things a reasonable person who is susceptible to anaphylactic shock from insect stings would do regardless of whether I keep bees. If her garden is attractive to bees, one would hope that bees will be there regardless of whether I have bees or not, wouldn't one? Will they adjust their lives (take reasonable precautions against being killed) ONLY because I keep bees, when bees naturally occur, wasps naturally occur and ARE aggressive, unlike bees? Put otherwise, if I don't keep bees, will my highly allergic, susceptible to instant death anaphylactic shock susceptible neighbor breath a sigh of relief, and once again lead a full and free life, plant a field of sunflowers and put away the epi-pen? Of course not. The very marginal additional risk imposed by my bees is effectively mitigated by steps that any reasonable person at risk would take anyway. There is no reason my keeping bees should impose any lifestyle changes on that person.

 

[Shooter]

It seems silly and unnecessary to take the issue on in constitutional terms.

Exactly, but I can only assume by your response and subsequent replies it was addressed at me...I can, likewise, only assume that you are not one well versed in the meaning and use of smilies!

 

[Sharkman20]

I agree that bees are beneficial and for the most part, harmless to people. I don't think I've been stung in about 15 years, and that's only because I was messing with a bee hive at the time. I don't mind if anyone were to keep them around me. Now, it's been a while since I've read the constitution, but I don't think I can recall the part about keeping bees. Can anyone verify this?

 

[Airborneguy]

Pilgarlic, you definitely make some good points, but I still don't see enough to say that bee keeping should not be subject to some form of regulation. I don't want to assume anything about your mindset, so I have to ask: are you saying that there should be no regulations at all regarding bee keeping in an urban setting?

 

[JeepDiver]

In many aspects this country would be a lot better if we all could start thinking about how our actions effect those around us and not require legislation to improve a community.

I live next to you, I am allergic to hops, your beer brewing brings hop particles into my yard. You must quit brewing beer, because your hobby negativly effects me.

 

[Shooter]

Now, it's been a while since I've read the constitution, but I don't think I can recall the part about keeping bees. Can anyone verify this?

Sir, your juvenile attempt at humor will be met with sharp criticism in this thread, serious discussion only please!!!!

 

[Captainfester]

The question of whether or not laws/ordinances/regulations are constitutional always brings me back to this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkxFMCdL33I


edit: sorry for the crappy video, only one I could find.

love it

 

[Pilgarlic]

Airborne: exactly. Non-Africanized honeybees offer, in my opinion, nothing but benefit in the urban or rural environment and should not be regulated. They do not appreciably increase the risk to those allergic. Beekeeping helps to sustain an extremely important pollenating species that is collapsing for inscrutable reasons. Beekeeping has been proven to help to inhibit the expansion of the Africanized bee. In my opinion, they do no harm and offer great benefits. All regulation of them is unfounded and ill-concieved. Now, Africanized bees are certainly another matter. I would support a total ban on keeping africanized bees (some do keep them) and a requirement that a professional exterminator be hired to kill any colonies found on one's property.

 

[Pilgarlic]

The trend nationally, by the way, is for municipalities to relax rather than tighten these kinds of restrictions on urban beekeeping, as the benefits become more widely appreciated and the myths of the dangers are debunked. Salt Lake City has lifted ALL restrictions, as has Polk County in Florida, with no apparent ill-effects and no cries for re-regulation.

 

[Airborneguy]

I mentioned before that NYC has done the same. But I still see some regulation as neccesary, such as how many hives are allowed. I don't believe it reasonable that my neighbor should be able to fill his yard with as many hives as space allows.

 

[Pilgarlic]

Probably not necessary, as the urban habitat wouldn't offer sufficient nectar and pollen to support that sort of saturation, so I suppose I wouldn't object to that.

 

[Sharkman20]

Sir, your juvenile attempt at humor will be met with sharp criticism in this thread, serious discussion only please!!!!

It's certainly not an attempt at juvenile humor. The title of this thread is a direct question of whether or not beekeeping is a constitutional right. While my comment was sarcastic, the question is serious in asking on whether or not someone can solidly provide evidence for or against this question. I personally cannot recall, so I was hoping someone else would provide this answer.

 

[OpenContainer]

I mentioned before that NYC has done the same. But I still see some regulation as neccesary, such as how many hives are allowed. I don't believe it reasonable that my neighbor should be able to fill his yard with as many hives as space allows.

While I normally share your view point on most things, this is not a valid argument either.

Anyone who has taken the time to study the honey bee and invest ~$300 - $500 per hive is NOT going to fill their urban back yard with as many hives as the square footage will hold. Bees will regulate their own population density and if that density gets too high, they swarm and find a new place to do bee things. This would not be a financially smart move on the keepers part.

I see no reason what so ever to regulate urban bee keeping. And I say that as an aspiring bee keeper who has studied bees for a few years now but haven't been in the same location long enough to make keeping a hive a wise decision on my part. (Full Disclosure)

 

[CreamyGoodness]

This reminds me of the city councilman who wanted to pass a law obliguing businesses in Flushing to have their business's name on their signage in English as well as Chinese.

Overlooking the obvious issues the measure was struck down when it was "discovered" (ie, everyone with a brain figured out) that most Chinese-owned businesses (overwhelmingly) already have English signage (seeing as how English speakers have money they are hoping to spend there as well).

This ordinance would be a dog and pony measure...

While I normally share your view point on most things, this is not a valid argument either.

Anyone who has taken the time to study the honey bee and invest ~$300 - $500 per hive is NOT going to fill their urban back yard with as many hives as the square footage will hold. Bees will regulate their own population density and if that density gets too high, they swarm and find a new place to do bee things. This would not be a financially smart move on the keepers part.

I see no reason what so ever to regulate urban bee keeping. And I say that as an aspiring bee keeper who has studied bees for a few years now but haven't been in the same location long enough to make keeping a hive a wise decision on my part. (Full Disclosure)

 

[bosdave]

I live next to you, I am allergic to hops, your beer brewing brings hop particles into my yard. You must quit brewing beer, because your hobby negativly effects me.

Apparently you missed the part where I stated that common sense ought to prevail. Or perhaps you missed the part where I said that many people brew in their houses. Or perhaps you don't understand that a few hop particles is not going to cause an allergic reaction, certainly not the amount that may or may not be in the air a house or more away during a brew day.

I fully expected some sort of challenge to my premise, however I did not expect one so inane

 

[bodhi86]

Airborne, I disagree with you for a simple reason. First, the "nearly instant death" scenario of true anaphylactic shock is extremely rare. In fact, " is a gross exaggeration of that very rare reaction. But the reason I disagree with you is that I don't think that regulation of the bees is either necessary or sufficient to protect that allergic person. First, is the regulation necessary? No, because, first, my bees don't present a risk. They only sting defensively. Don't disturb them and you won't be stung. Also not necessary because those few who have this reaction will certainly not attract these insects to their yards with nectar plants, and bees don't wander around aimlessly. Also not necessary because there are other ways for that person to protect himself, for example, by carrying an epi-pen. And, regulation would certainly not be sufficient to protect that person. Anaphylactic shock can be brought about by wasps, also, which are much more likely to sting you. Or even by ant bites. So you'd better carry that pen anyway, hadn't you?

If a regulation is neither necessary nor sufficient, leave it off the books.

The concentration is not an issue if they do no harm. And they do no harm. Particularly since the severely allergic person can take measures to a) keep bees from visiting and b) protect their health (carry an epi-pen. wouldn't you?). Severely allergic people should do these things to protect themselves whether I have bees or not.

So you having bees means a severely allergic person shouldn't have flowers? I'm confused, its like saying I keep bears, but they won't bother you, unless you have a fish pond, and you don't like bears you shouldn't have a fish pond anyway.by the way you don't own a chainmail suit just in case my bears do decide to search for a fish pond in you yard anyway?

 

[Lunchtime]

No, it's like saying if you are extremely allergic to bees, maybe you shouldn't fill your yard with things that will attract bees regardless of whether or not a neighbor happens to have bees.

 

[andysim]

So... Should I be forced to cut down all of my walnut trees because my neighbor is allergic to walnuts?

Those darn squirrels are always carrying the walnuts into his yard too!

Only if the walnut tree is forcing your neighbor to eat it's nuts.

 

[Lunchtime]

Only if the walnut tree is forcing your neighbor to eat it's nuts.

We have a winner!

 

[JeepDiver]

Apparently you missed the part where I stated that common sense ought to prevail. Or perhaps you missed the part where I said that many people brew in their houses. Or perhaps you don't understand that a few hop particles is not going to cause an allergic reaction, certainly not the amount that may or may not be in the air a house or more away during a brew day.

I fully expected some sort of challenge to my premise, however I did not expect one so inane

How do you know how allergic I am. And if I say it bothers me then it bothers me so you shouldn't do it

 

[SwampassJ]

First, honeybees are not aggressive. Unless you molest them (inadvertently or deliberately) they will not sting you. Doesn't matter whether you're ten feet away from the colony or a mile. They're just not that into you.

USUALLY not aggressive. I've been stung enough times just sitting in my truck eating, laying on my raft in the pool and sitting on my porch. Nothing like a red hot bee's ******* stinger to wake you up from a nice nap.

I'm still for honey bee keeping. Nothing better than some Orange Blossom honey.

 

[Pilgarlic]

Swamp, I sincerely believe that if you were stung by an unprovoked insect it wasn't a honeybee. They simply don't behave that way. They sting defensively.

 

[motobrewer]

so, are you suggesting that beekeepers never get stung by honeybees?

 

[TheBrewingMedic]

For example: Home brewing causes minimal noise, no physical effect on any neighbor and often is done out of sight to any neighbor. Therefore it is common sense to say that home brewing, as a hobby, does not negatively impact one's neighbors, on their property or off of it.

So you are arguing based on the assumption that your hobby couldn't possible offend or negatively effect your neighbor so it makes it ok. And since you or someone has been stung by a bee at somepoint (most likely not even a honey bee) that it automatically needs to be done miles and miles away from civilization?

First, there is a meadery in Chicago that keeps their hives on the roofs of downtown buildings to take advantage of the parks wildflowers...they have to go.

some factoids for you:

The pollen and other particualtes easily sent airborne from dried hops are well known to be able to cause skin rashes to people with mild pollen allergies to anti-contactive effects in pregnant women....

Brewing beer has a distinctive aroma which while welcome and pleasant to most, is nauseating even in the smallest hint of it in the air to a few...

I could throw a couple more in there about sound and safety but the point isnt to put you or your hobby (my own as well) down. It's simply to say that for every hobby you could imagine done anywhere that someone besides the hobbyist themselves could know it is being done there will be someone that is offended by it.

Using common sense or not, invasive or not, everything could negatively effect someone, if we eliminate all hobbys that can...we would all be sitting around watching tv all the time....hmm sedentary lifestyle causes flabby tv hobbyists....visually offensive to someone? damn even screwed there

 

[Pilgarlic]

so, are you suggesting that beekeepers never get stung by honeybees?

I'm a beekeeper. I get stung by honeybees sometimes, when I'm in their box, pulling frames of honey, or sometimes if I'm just standing too close to the entrance. But I inspect my hives, mostly, without gloves, and I they really don't often sting me. You can go on youtube and see a beekeeper with neither gloves nor veil tearing a feral colony out of a shed comb by comb and tossing the bee covered comb into a bucket and getting very, very few stings.

 

[Pilgarlic]

Here's a factoid to illustrate. Bees will "swarm" if their colony population grows enough. Half the population leaves to go find another home. While waiting to move into a new home, they'll ball up on a tight cluster on a limb or some other structure. While they're hanging there, they have no home, so they have no defensive instinct. You can slide your hand into the ball of bees and stir it gently around without being stung, because the bees have no home to defend! Similarly, if you capture a swarm in that state and it happens to be africanized bees, you'd never know it because they show no aggressive/defensive behavior. But take them home and put them in a box and those Africanized bees will let you know their nature the next day or so, once they've adopted a new home to defend.

 

[motobrewer]

some factoids for you:

The pollen and other particualtes easily sent airborne from dried hops are well known to be able to cause skin rashes to people with mild pollen allergies to anti-contactive effects in pregnant women....

Brewing beer has a distinctive aroma which while welcome and pleasant to most, is nauseating even in the smallest hint of it in the air to a few...

those aren't exactly facts. let alone "factoids".

i don't believe beekeeping should be regulated. however, as a fellow allergic (not to bee stings, luckily), and father, I can sympathize. 4/5/6 year old playing in the yard is neither going to know how to use an epipen or be very knowledgeable or cautious around bee-loving stuff.

 

[Pilgarlic]

Allergies are unfortunate. A parent of an allergic child will obviously exercise all necessary caution. That'll probably be completely adequate. It's a bit much, though, in my book, to expect government to build a bubble around what is in fact a very small risk. Anaphylactic shock from insect stings take about fifty lives a year in the U.S. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find the stats segregated by type of insect, and anaphylactic shock can be triggered by wasps too, and even some ants. I know that the small number means nothing to the families who are in fact victims but we can't build a bubble around all risk, regardless of how small it is.