Is a Peat-Smoked Bock a horrible idea?

[RockTheGoodAg]

Howdy y'all,

I just finished bottling my second batch: an oaked Scottish Fraoch Ale that I'm calling "Stirling, 1297." My dad is not knowledgeable about beer in the slightest, but he is otherwise very intelligent and clever, and he suggested I brew up a "Bannockburn Bock" to make another beer named after a significant Scottish battle. I love the name, so I'd like to find a way to make this work - essentially, a way to Scotch-up a Bock. My first idea was to brew a fairly basic Bock/Doppelbock, with the addition of some peat-smoked malt. It seems to me that this wouldn't be much different from a Rauchbier, other than the smoke character being different, coming from peat rather than beechwood. Does this sound like it could turn out could? Does it sound like a disaster waiting to happen? Thoughts?

Thanks!

 

[FarmerTed]

I think doing a bock/dopplebock for your third beer is probably the crazy part, to be honest. Why not just do a Wee Heavy? That would make more sense to me. There are lots or recipes for those (with or without the smoked malt). I guess I'm just not feeling the Scottish Bock idea.

 

[RockTheGoodAg]

Why is that the crazy part? Because of the layering process? I would buy a chest freezer/temp regulator by that point.

 

[FarmerTed]

Well, lagers are usually considered advanced brews, and bocks/dopplebocks are probably the most advanced lagers to brew. You need the temp control, but also good fermentation practices (aeration and proper pitching rates). I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's pretty bold for the third brew. I'd start with a lower gravity lager first, or go to a higher gravity ale. Or do something crazy like brew a bird's nest brown ale for your third batch (that's the normal arc for homebrewers).

 

[RockTheGoodAg]

Good to know.

Pardon my ignorance - what's a Bird's Nest Brown Ale? A quick search was fruitless.

 

[FarmerTed]

Pardon my ignorance - what's a Bird's Nest Brown Ale? A quick search was fruitless.

I don't know, I guess it would be like Bird's Nest Soup, except it would be beer? And probably nasty.

My main point is that it is really tempting to do something crazy on your third brew; hell, it's almost unavoidable. I'm remembering a smoked beer I did for my third or fourth beer that was quite awful. A lot of people go totally off the deep end, and make a banana-strawberry-chocolate-custard hefeweizen, or something like that for their third beer. All I'm saying is that I would try to keep it on the simpler but good side.

 

[JonM]

I'd try a little bit of cherry smoked malt first. (A little goes a long way.). As for the peat smoked malt, I started reading Malt a little while ago, and it describes the peat smoked stuff as being very intensely flavored - like in a bad way. (I've never used it myself).

If you want something Scottish, then Scottish ale yeast (1728) is the way to go. It's a nice clean yeast and much easier to work with than lager yeast.

 

[RockTheGoodAg]

Would it be weird to do a Bock-ish grain bill, a touch of smoked malt, and a Scottish ale yeast? I guess there's no better way to know than to try it.

 

[Qhrumphf]

A) A little peat-smoked malt does go a long way. And I mean a little. And I mean a long way. I picked up a half pound for a beer that was intentionally supposed to be a peat bomb, and used 5 ounces (in 2.5 gallons), and it was incredibly strong. I used the other 3 oz in 5 gallons in a kitchen sink beer, and it was again intensely strong.

B) If you make a properly sized (read MASSIVE) starter in a massive flask on a stir plate, with adequate time to ferment out, cold crash, and decant by brew day, have a pure O2 set up, a proper wort chiller able to chill your wort into the high 40s, and a properly set up fridge so that you can exactly control the temp of the beer, you can probably pull off your Bock or Doppelbock. However, if you are missing a single one of these things, you're asking for problems.

You might want to try going with beechwood smoked Rauchmalt first, and see how it goes. Cherrywood would be a good bet too, but it's easier to overdo with cherrywood than it is with beechwood (although not as easy as it is to overdo it with peated malt).

 

[FarmerTed]

Would it be weird to do a Bock-ish grain bill, a touch of smoked malt, and a Scottish ale yeast? I guess there's no better way to know than to try it.

I don't think it would be weird at all, just go light on the smoked malt as mentioned. It could end up being really good, and easier to pull off than a lager.

 

[butterpants]

Peat malt is gross and for making whisky

 

[douglasbarbin]

Peat malt is gross and for making whisky

This. Unless you want your beer to taste like an open grave.

 

[rickyjphillips]

I did Scotch Ale using peated malt and trust me when I say this, a little goes a LONG way. I used 6 oz in a 5 gallon batch and when I did the first taste is was like drinking a campfire. I let them sit for almost a year... came back too it and I swear the peat hadn't diminished any.

 

[TechyDork]

I brewed up a smoked porter with 4 lbs of peat smoked malt in a 10g batch. it was like drinking scotch through the smoke of a campfire while eating charcoal. After a few months it was drinkable, the second keg has been sitting for 6 months and it has mellowed and is actually not to bad if you like a smokey flavor, a strong smokey flavor. Not something that I would drink very often, ad the keg probably will get bottled and aged for who knows how long.

I meant to ask for rauchmalt and the LHBS gave me peat smoked and it was already crushed and mixed so we went with it. Wouldn't do it again.

 

[madscientist451]

You said you have done two brews so far? My advice at this point would be to try to make some really good beer with established recipes, like clones of highly rated beers. If you do it right, you can make clones that are as good as or better than the commercial examples. After you get 20 or so brews done, maybe try and experiment a little with what you know. If you want to try some beer with smoked malt, buy a few and drink them and think it over before you spend the time and money on a whole batch.
Sure, its nice to experiment, but its also nice to have plenty of good beer in your homebrew pipeline to drink if your experimental beers don't work out.

 

[Albionwood]

If you want to try some beer with smoked malt, buy a few and drink them and think it over before you spend the time and money on a whole batch.
Sure, its nice to experiment, but its also nice to have plenty of good beer in your homebrew pipeline to drink if your experimental beers don't work out.

^^This.

Peated malt is very tricky stuff. You basically don't want to taste it directly; it has an unpleasant ashtray taste. Used in very small amounts it can add a subtle smoky complexity, which works best in sweeter beers without a lot of other flavors. I think it might be interesting in a Bock.

I've used it twice so far: the first was in what was otherwise a Velvet Merkin clone, I think 6 oz in a 5-gallon batch. That was too much; the ashtray character came through too strongly. The second time I added 2 oz to an Irish Red, and that actually came out pretty nice. I am drinking the very last glass of that batch right now!

So if you try this, I'd recommend adding no more than 2 or 3 ounces in a 5-gallon batch. Unless you are a cigarette smoker and accustomed to that ashtray taste anyway.

 

[smizak]

Lemme pile on the peat smoked hate.

Just buy a pound and smell it. Ack.

As the great Jamil Z. says, if you have to use it just wave the bag near the fermenter, that's all you will need!

The smoke in some Scotch beers is a phenol from the yeast, I actually had a coworker give me a homebrew that I swear had a little kilned or smoked malt when it shouldn't have been there, turns out after asking about the recipe he used a Scottish ale yeast at low temps in his basement.

 

[Qhrumphf]

The smoke in some Scotch beers is a phenol from the yeast, I actually had a coworker give me a homebrew that I swear had a little kilned or smoked malt when it shouldn't have been there, turns out after asking about the recipe he used a Scottish ale yeast at low temps in his basement.

This. If you use just a pinch of roasted malt for color, plus ferment in the high 50s with a good Scottish yeast, there's a hint of smoke.

However, if you want to go out of style, I think peated malt has it's place. However, if you're not already a fan of Islay single malts, you may not like the result. When I did it (as I already mentioned) my goal was to translate Islay single malt in to beer form, so I used a high (relative for the malt) percentage of peated malt, plus oak soaked in Laphroaig. Point is, peat bomb. And it got the point across quite well, ie smoky Scotch lovers (think Laphroaig or Lagavulin) loved it, everyone else (including NHC judges) absolutely hated it. Although it was a HUGE hit at NHC club night in Philly. As was my Ghost Pepper Smoked Porter (cherrywood smoked malt), of all things. I guess when I DO break style (which isn't often) I go out there enough to have a cult following.