IPAs turns into Amber issue, what is causing it? asking for tips about it

[Metalhead_brewer]

hi everyone, my last 2 batches of IPAs had turned practically into amber ales, they have lost any sight of hops no flavor and no aroma at all, they not taste bad just they taste diferent, they taste "caramelier" and they color is darker just like a amber ale, is not my first time making IPAs just first time getting this results, they're less than 2 months old, any tips whats causing this? i forgot to mention that the first month they're great, full hop flavor and aroma, this issue is when they're like 2 months old, i've read that IPAS has 3 months of shelf live to start to lose their properties, but my beers change drastically and the're not that oldie. any hints?

 

[rhys333]

I can't say for sure, but the issue might be due to oxidation. Are you being careful to prevent oxygen pickup post-fermentation?

 

[Jim R]

This sounds like classic oxidation. You should probably give a brief summary of your techniques (fermentation, bottling, kegging, transfers, etc.) and you will get some good advice.

 

[D.B.Moody]

i forgot to mention that the first month they're great, full hop flavor and aroma, this issue is when they're like 2 months old

Obviously you're not drinking fast enough, but just to check: are you kegging or bottling? If you're kegging, perhaps air is getting in.

 

[grampamark]

I don’t think he’s begging, just asking a question.

 

[Metalhead_brewer]

i do the same procedure as always after fermentation i slowly rack to secondary (trying not to splash), pour hops for dry hopping, then rack to keg, purge with Co2, carbonate and cold crash for a week and finally bottle (omg maybe here's the issue i just bottle with a filler stick attached to a hose to the barrel and maybe i'm pouring too much oxygen in the bottle) but i thought that the principal hint of oxydized beer is metal flavor and my beer has none of this, i thought it was other thing that was causing it. by the way my beer never has lasted too long except this 2 batches maybe the bottling is the issue what do you think?

 

[day_trippr]

It's definitely oxidation. The higher the post-boil hop bill the more critical post-fermentation oxygen-avoidance.
The damage from oxidation starts with loss of aroma, then attenuation of hop and other flavor characters, at which point the beer is already insipid and heading for a horrible ending with the classic "cardboard" and "sherry" characters.

Don't do that secondary thing - it's a HUGE cause of oxidation. Just go with a single fermenter, there's no reason to use a secondary for IPAs.
Bottling will be problematic unless you purge bottles, fill quietly, and cap-on-foam. Kegging is much easier in that regard as one can fully purge a keg prior to closed-transfer filling...

Cheers!

 

[Metalhead_brewer]

Obviously you're not drinking fast enough, but just to check: are you kegging or bottling? If you're begging, perhaps air is getting in.

i keg and then bottle to free my kegs for new beer i just have 2 kegs and make 10 gallons batches but my method of bottling i think i causing this issue

 

[Metalhead_brewer]

It's definitely oxidation. The higher the post-boil hop bill the more critical post-fermentation oxygen-avoidance.
The damage from oxidation starts with loss of aroma, then attenuation of hop and other flavor characters, at which point the beer is already insipid and heading for a horrible ending with the classic "cardboard" and "sherry" characters.

Don't do that secondary thing - it's a HUGE cause of oxidation. Just go with a single fermenter, there's no reason to use a secondary for IPAs.
Bottling will be problematic unless you purge bottles, fill quietly, and cap-on-foam. Kegging is much easier in that regard as one can fully purge a keg prior to closed-transfer filling...

Cheers!

in fact is clear as lager by now, not the cardboard flavor yet, is still very good just with the lack of hop aroma and flavor, thank you very much, by now i know is my bottling method that is screwing it, i'll get a counterpressure bottle filler ASAP.

 

[rhys333]

i keg and then bottle to free my kegs for new beer i just have 2 kegs and make 10 gallons batches but my method of bottling i think i causing this issue

So you keg, then bottle the kegged and already carbonated beer? I would definitely stop doing that, unless you're drinking it within hours. As day-tripper said, I would also stop using secondary. Just use primary for almost all beer styles. Furthermore, if you're dry-hopping, try to do that on the tail end of fermentation but before it's completely finished. This will further reduce the risk of oxygen pickup.

 

[Jim R]

Besides the above suggestions, I would also figure out how to do a pressure transfer from the fermenter to the serving keg. In other words, the goal is to never let your IPA's see any oxygen (as best as equipment will allow) from the time you pitch your yeast in the fermenter till the beer hits your drinking glass except maybe to dry hop before active fermentation is complete.

 

[D.B.Moody]

i keg and then bottle to free my kegs for new beer i just have 2 kegs and make 10 gallons batches but my method of bottling i think i causing this issue

So when is the beer going bad? It's okay, I assume, in the keg. It's in the keg for some time. It's in the bottles for some time. Yes, you could be introducing oxygen at bottling. I do secondary, I transfer to a bottling bucket, and I bottle, but I don't get oxidation in my bottles. In my experience, if it's good at one month, it's good for two or three. (Not that that happens much.)

Also, you imply that this didn't used to happen. Any changes in recipe like the aroma hops? In procedure like time in keg?

 

[day_trippr]

If I was a betting person, I'd wager the damage was done racking to a "secondary" vessel and then racking to an unpurged keg, and it was already doomed before it ever saw glass.

File all of that under "Don't Do That"...

Cheers!