IPA Test Batches Coming Soon

[rodwha]

Just recieved my MoreBeer order which included what I’ll need to conduct 4 small test batches to compare how hop additions come through in the end product.

Long ago I was shown a hop utilization chart that when I’ve reposted it I’ve been given a lot of flack for it not being remotely close to factual, which I’ve assumed that all hops being a little different from the next, might be more or less the gist of how it might work. This is the chart:



My recipes are all identical as well as the hop amounts. All that will change is the time at which they are used. These are the 2.5 gal recipes I’ve come up with:

4.75 lbs pale ale malt
0.25 lb cane sugar (FO)
0.125 lb C-60
0.125 lb light DME (starter)
0.125 oz Centennial (10.1%) FWH
0.875 oz Centennial @ either 21, 14, 7 mins, or whirlpool
US-05

1.061/1.011
6.6%
75/57/47/69 IBUS’s (Rager)
7 SRM
75% efficiency (likely get closer to 80%)

I’ve been keeping US-05 going (washed the yeast after initial use) as I found I actually get a little better attenuation and flocculation than the WLP001 I used to use.

I know many feel a starter should be decanted, but I use a whisk to aerate and keep it in my fermentation chamber (65*) so it’s not shaken or fermented hot. I also just haven’t understood why one would prefer to make the yeast slow and lazy by cooling it when you can have them lively and reading to go, and it’s not just some wasted ingredient that gets poured out (I’m a bit frugal).

As time is of the essence to a degree when it comes to hoppy beers I’m considering trying to brew twice a week and ferment at 65* for 3 days at a time instead of my usual week before pulling it and finishing it at room temp for the last two weeks. But I’m not sure I’ll have the time (or patience from SWMBO) to do this. So it might end up being one each week.

I’ve been wanting to do this for years now. Glad I’m finally focusing on it. I’m hoping to find enough people to help me taste these to get a better field of opinions. My neighbors are always down to drink my beers, and I like that they give me honest feedback. Another neighbor has been very to himself but did say he only appreciates IPAs. Might have to knock on his door too.

 

[rodwha]

Mistakenly ordered an 8 oz bag of Centennial. Thankfully I ordered some extra pale ale and had a bit of that and white wheat on hand so I’ve adjusted the recipes to (3.75 gal):

5.75 lbs pale ale
0.75 lb cane sugar (FO)
3.7 oz white wheat
3 oz C-60
.25 lb DME (starter)
0.25 oz Centennial FWH
1.75 oz Centennial @ 21, 14, 7 mins, 49 min whirlpool
US-05

1.059/1.009
6.5%
79/64/43/52 IBUs
7 SRM

I used to start my whirlpool somewhere around 185* but will be trying 154* instead as many feel it adds more/better flavor at the lower end of the temp range.

 

[Dgallo]

Seems interesting. You’ll def get a feel for the diff times. Just want to make sure I follow; 4 beer with Same grain bill, FWH addition, and yeast, however each beer will receive one addition between 21 minutes thru whirlpool?

It would also be interesting to do a beer with only the FWH and a dryhop addition

 

[rodwha]

Seems interesting. You’ll def get a feel for the diff times. Just want to make sure I follow; 4 beer with Same grain bill, FWH addition, and yeast, however each beer will receive one addition between 21 minutes thru whirlpool?

It would also be interesting to do a beer with only the FWH and a dryhop addition

You got it.

I’ve been considering testing whirlpool temps against a dry hop as well.

From what I read a few years ago it was said that a high temp (~185* F/85* C) gave more flavor. I add any sugars, honey, LME when I do a big beer, etc at flame out, which will cool the temp a little, along with fishing out the muslin bags, and after that I drop my wort chiller in. I’ve never been too specific, but it was at that time I began my whirlpool. But it seems that since my wort’s temperature is still rather high it is likely I’m still isomeritizing (Spl?) the hop oils. But I was recently told that the lower end (~155* F/68* C) isn’t more of an aroma addition, that it provided better flavor than the higher temp. So I’ll use the lower temp for this test, and likely for all future whirlpools since it will stop any additional isomeritization. Plus it’s probably easier to stay closer to the initial temp at a lower temp.

 

[Dgallo]

You got it.

I’ve been considering testing whirlpool temps against a dry hop as well.

From what I read a few years ago it was said that a high temp (~185* F/85* C) gave more flavor. I add any sugars, honey, LME when I do a big beer, etc at flame out, which will cool the temp a little, along with fishing out the muslin bags, and after that I drop my wort chiller in. I’ve never been too specific, but it was at that time I began my whirlpool. But it seems that since my wort’s temperature is still rather high it is likely I’m still isomeritizing (Spl?) the hop oils. But I was recently told that the lower end (~155* F/68* C) isn’t more of an aroma addition, that it provided better flavor than the higher temp. So I’ll use the lower temp for this test, and likely for all future whirlpools since it will stop any additional isomeritization. Plus it’s probably easier to stay closer to the initial temp at a lower temp.

I’ve been messing around with my whirlpool over that past few years and found it’s all about what you’re looking to achieve from the hops. If you want more bitterness and boil addition like flavor you can keep it 180-170, if you’re looking for less bitterness and the “juicer” component of the hop, than 150 is the call

 

[GnenieGone]

I’ve been messing around with my whirlpool over that past few years and found it’s all about what you’re looking to achieve from the hops. If you want more bitterness and boil addition like flavor you can keep it 180-170, if you’re looking for less bitterness and the “juicer” component of the hop, than 150 is the call

Years back when doing Pliney clones, waiting till 147F to drop in WP hops made a significant improvement to the juiciness. [emoji106]

Oh and I appreciate IPAs @rodwha....don't we live like 10miles from eachother?? [emoji6]

 

[GnenieGone]

Seems interesting. You’ll def get a feel for the diff times. Just want to make sure I follow; 4 beer with Same grain bill, FWH addition, and yeast, however each beer will receive one addition between 21 minutes thru whirlpool?

It would also be interesting to do a beer with only the FWH and a dryhop addition

Just sampled my DME only No-boil brew neipa. Used Golden Light/Wheat, 3lbs each heated to 175F. Omega DIPA/Connan strain with 05 also. Hops were 1oz each of Cryo Citra/Ekuanot and 1oz regular Simcoe all thrown in a fermentation temp. 6days old now. Plenty of perceived bitterness and resembles Voodoo Ranger Haze. Not over the top. Will keg later today no DH on this one.

 

[Dgallo]

Just sampled my DME only No-boil brew neipa. Used Golden Light/Wheat, 3lbs each heated to 175F. Omega DIPA/Connan strain with 05 also. Hops were 1oz each of Cryo Citra/Ekuanot and 1oz regular Simcoe all thrown in a fermentation temp. 6days old now. Plenty of perceived bitterness and resembles Voodoo Ranger Haze. Not over the top. Will keg later today no DH on this one.

2.5 gallon batch? I would say your just getting some hop bite from the powder, they are high in alphas usually, like 24% +. Should go away once they drop out and condition

 

[rodwha]

I’ve been messing around with my whirlpool over that past few years and found it’s all about what you’re looking to achieve from the hops. If you want more bitterness and boil addition like flavor you can keep it 180-170, if you’re looking for less bitterness and the “juicer” component of the hop, than 150 is the call

Bitterness is a funny thing to me. I don’t get a big bitterness from my overly hopped IPAs. For the most part I’ve used 1/2 oz of Warrior @ 70 mins/FWH and 2-2.5 oz of high AA hops at both 21 and 7 mins, along with close to 4 oz at 185* whirlpool for 49 mins (and a dry hop) and these just don’t come across as bitter to me. Torpedo IPA has a more pronounced bitterness to me.

But I’m always after the flavor, a big punch of it.

 

[rodwha]

Years back when doing Pliney clones, waiting till 147F to drop in WP hops made a significant improvement to the juiciness. [emoji106]

Oh and I appreciate IPAs @rodwha....don't we live like 10miles from eachother?? [emoji6]

Yes! It’s so close it seems we should meet up to drink some beer!

By the way, did you see they are planning on canning Ectric Jellyfish soon?

 

[GnenieGone]

Yes! It’s so close it seems we should meet up to drink some beer!

By the way, did you see they are planning on canning Ectric Jellyfish soon?

The Round Rock location is where the canning starts I believe. Drove up for their inaugural Crispy Waves cans. Not too shabby. Little too far for me tho so sticking with the South or Burnet locations.

Tied up this weekend but next week sounds good. I'll hit Suds Monkey for sure.

 

[rodwha]

The Round Rock location is where the canning starts I believe. Drove up for their inaugural Crispy Waves cans. Not too shabby. Little too far for me tho so sticking with the South or Burnet locations.

Tied up this weekend but next week sounds good. I'll hit Suds Monkey for sure.

Next weekend is a Campfire backpacking trip at Lost Maples (favorite state park by far!).

 

[rodwha]

Brewed up the whirlpool version on Tues. I wasn’t paying attention and passed up my desired temp of 154*. Ended up getting down to 120* a lot quicker than I expected, but then I usually just do 5.25 gal batches.

Anyone have an idea as to how the low temp will impact the flavor? Seems with it being that low it might almost be more like a short dry hop and not as effective.

Today is brew day #2 and I’ll be doing the 21 min hop addition. Thinking Mon and Thu will be the other two. I want them pretty much back to back to make them as even as possible. Figure 3 days in my ferm chamber should be good enough pulling the last one to fit the next.

 

[rodwha]

So these beers have been done for a while now and I noticed some interesting things.

The 7 min version did not have as much aroma as I expected and also did not taste as hoppy as I’d expect a 53 IBU beer to taste like. It was like a tame pale ale.

I couldn’t really taste any more flavor in the 21 min version over the 14 min, but did notice a bit more of a perceived bitterness. The whirlpool version has a similar amount of taste but seemed so much softer or less loud. This beer cooled down much faster than I anticipated and so this addition was dropped in at ~120* instead of 154* as I intended.

In essence I have gone back to my old traditional times of 5 mins and 15 mins or for a single late addition, 10 mins. And since I’ve been dropping my bittering hops as first wort hops I don’t see a need to extend the boil to 70 mins unless that addition is large such as the barleywine I’ll be doing tomorrow.

 

[brewbama]

I use 60-30-10 simply out of brewday convenience because other things are happening at those times in the brewery. However, I imagine whirlpool, hopback, hop stand, dry hop, etc techniques would render more flavor and aroma than kettle hops which are all basically bittering hops IMO.

I recently heard a podcast on Hop Stand Bittering Unit calculations that you might be interested in. Basically, the presenter brewed several beers using only a hop stand across different varieties and developed a calculation to adjust the effect.

I use hops by the IBU (as calculated by BeerSmith) vs weight. I like to use half the IBU(s) at 60 and split the remaining IBU(s) between 30 and 10 min. For example a 40 IBU APA would get 20 IBU(s) at 60 min, 10 IBU(s) at 30 min, and 10 IBU(s) at 10 min. The result is a larger amount by weight at 10 min for somewhat of a burst effect. I have been enjoying the results.

 

[rodwha]

Actually I didn’t find the whirlpool to produce more flavor. It didn’t have as crisp of a hop flavor. I preferred the 14 min version to the WP and the WP to the 21 with 7 last since it just wasn’t as pronounced. But I’ve often wondered when people state that whirlpool/hop stand and dry hops come across so much better if they are comparing equal weights. If it’s not equal weights it’s not truly apples to apples.

I’ve been thinking of trying different whirlpool temps vs dry hop times, but won’t be doing 4 beers at one time as it was a bit much.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

I use hops by the IBU (as calculated by BeerSmith) vs weight. I like to use half the IBU(s) at 60 and split the remaining IBU(s) between 30 and 10 min. For example a 40 IBU APA would get 20 IBU(s) at 60 min, 10 IBU(s) at 30 min, and 10 IBU(s) at 10 min. The result is a larger amount by weight at 10 min for somewhat of a burst effect. I have been enjoying the results.

I have seen some discussion (by John Palmer and others) about how the IBUs that are produced by late hopping are not nearly as bitter as the same IBU produced by boil hopping. While the acronym stands for International Bitterness Unit, the actual tests detects many compounds that are not bitter. For late hop additions, you really have to taste the beer to judge bitterness.

For me, every pub or brewery has 50% of their taps devoted to hazy over hopped beers. So while I enjoy them, I don't feel much need to brew them myself or throw over $30 worth of hops at a beer. I will likely continue to focus on the Pale Ales and IPAs that I enjoy. I feel like I enjoy the flavor from additions in the 20 to 10 min range. At some point will formulate a hazy, juicy, moderately hopped Pale Ale in the 5% range.

 

[rodwha]

I have seen some discussion (by John Palmer and others) about how the IBUs that are produced by late hopping are not nearly as bitter as the same IBU produced by boil hopping. While the acronym stands for International Bitterness Unit, the actual tests detects many compounds that are not bitter. For late hop additions, you really have to taste the beer to judge bitterness.

For me, every pub or brewery has 50% of their taps devoted to hazy over hopped beers. So while I enjoy them, I don't feel much need to brew them myself or throw over $30 worth of hops at a beer. I will likely continue to focus on the Pale Ales and IPAs that I enjoy. I feel like I enjoy the flavor from additions in the 20 to 10 min range. At some point will formulate a hazy, juicy, moderately hopped Pale Ale in the 5% range.

Funny as I generally buy IPAs and a few pale ales, overly hoppy ones are better. But because I buy these so often (95% of my commercial purchases) I tend to brew beers that take up maybe 75-80% of the other styles (and some that aren’t a style).

But I have to say that I generally much prefer my own IPAs (I usually brew these to as close to 100 IBUs and 7% as I can) where the bulk of the hops are in the whirlpool and dry hop with a 1/2 of bittering addition of Warrior in 5.25 gals. In essence a clearer Hazy/Juicy with thrice the IBUs and not necessarily those types of hops.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

Funny as I generally buy IPAs and a few pale ales, overly hoppy ones are better. But because I buy these so often (95% of my commercial purchases) I tend to brew beers that take up maybe 75-80% of the other styles (and some that aren’t a style).

But I have to say that I generally much prefer my own IPAs (I usually brew these to as close to 100 IBUs and 7% as I can) where the bulk of the hops are in the whirlpool and dry hop with a 1/2 of bittering addition of Warrior in 5.25 gals. In essence a clearer Hazy/Juicy with thrice the IBUs and not necessarily those types of hops.

The beauty of homebrewing...you get to tweak your recipes to what you want! I really like a 70-90 IBU west coast IPA with lots of classic hops. I like 40-50 IBU pale ales with maybe 4 oz total hops (went for a crazy 4.6 oz in the one I just kegged!). I do like hazy-juicy beers, but I find these 8%-10% beers loaded with Mosaic/Galaxy/Citra to be too draining to enjoy more than one, where I find the lower ABV version to be refreshing and something I want to go back for a second.

 

[rodwha]

The beauty of homebrewing...you get to tweak your recipes to what you want! I really like a 70-90 IBU west coast IPA with lots of classic hops. I like 40-50 IBU pale ales with maybe 4 oz total hops (went for a crazy 4.6 oz in the one I just kegged!). I do like hazy-juicy beers, but I find these 8%-10% beers loaded with Mosaic/Galaxy/Citra to be too draining to enjoy more than one, where I find the lower ABV version to be refreshing and something I want to go back for a second.

Absolutely! I find myself wanting to brew session IPAs now. Initially I wasn’t quite the fan, but I like it. There’s a time and place for each.