Is it possible to keg IPA from bucket fermenter without oxidizing it? Last time I purged keg like 3-5 times with prv, opened keg and connected silicone tub from fermenter spigot to the bottom of keg, transfered slowly and purged headspace 4more times. After a week it was strongly oxidized. Is it possible to have good ipa in a keg without pressure tranfers?
IPA kegging without pressure transfer
- Thread starter vaidas
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First of all, there is no point in purging a keg and then opening it. Once opened it's no longer purged as gasses mix pretty much instantaneously. Also 3-5 cycles is nowhere near enough to purge an empty keg. Fill it with sanitizer and push that out with CO2 instead.
Since your fermenter has a spigot you can do a closed loop gravity transfer. All you need is a piece of tubing with a liquid QD to go from the fermenter spigot to the liquid post on the keg, and another with a gas QD to go from the gas post back to the top of the fermenter. So the purged keg doesn't have to be opened and the fermenter headspace gets filled with CO2 from the keg instead of ambient air. Bonus points for modifying the fermenter lid with a gas post and purging the jumper lines.
You might also consider adding some ascorbic acid to the keg.
Since your fermenter has a spigot you can do a closed loop gravity transfer. All you need is a piece of tubing with a liquid QD to go from the fermenter spigot to the liquid post on the keg, and another with a gas QD to go from the gas post back to the top of the fermenter. So the purged keg doesn't have to be opened and the fermenter headspace gets filled with CO2 from the keg instead of ambient air. Bonus points for modifying the fermenter lid with a gas post and purging the jumper lines.
You might also consider adding some ascorbic acid to the keg.
I considered to push sanutizer from keg to purge it, I just wonder whether all sanitizer will be pushed out and no sanitizer will be left in a keg?
This sounds like a really good way to keg ipa, should I leave any level of pressure in keg before connecting keg to the top of fermenter?
Some invert the keg in the hope of reducing any remaining sanitizer. There's going to be some minor residue, but not enough to affect flavor.
Another method of purging kegs: fermentation gas from a 5 gallon batch, flowing through a sanitized keg, dilutes the oxygen sufficiently to prevent the rapid degradation you've experienced. This works well for many, including me.
Turn the keg upside down after you purge it. Let the last bit of snaitizer drip down into the lid. Pull the PRV briefly to drain it.
Any pressure left in the keg will equalize with the fermenter as soon as you hook it up to the fermenter. So leaving pressure in the keg is a bad idea unless the fermenter can handle the amount of pressure you left in the keg. Ask me how I know.
This is really good idea, if I add qd to the lid of my fermenter, why not to connect it to the sanitized keg during fermentation.
Thanks! I will try it.
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Btw, are there any benefits to connect fermenter to liquid qd of the keg and gas qd connect line and put it in sanitizer. Or just connect fermenter with gas in qd of the keg?
Not sure what kind of fermenter you use, but it needs to seal very well for purging with fermentation gas to work. This thread is very long but tells you more than everything you need to know. And this one is a great resource for modifying your fermenter lid (also very long).
fluketamer
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If you are starting with a keg full of sanitizer, connect fermenter gas out to keg gas (in) post and connect a liquid QD with tubing to a bucket to collect the sanitizer. If you are purging an empty sanitized keg connect the fermenter gas out to the liquid (out) post of the keg and connect a gas QD with tubing to a blow-off jar with some sanitizer in it. You will get better "sweeping" if the CO2 enters the keg at the bottom. In theory at least.
You have to let fermentation gas in and out of keg - I personally do in to liquid side, out gas side. But you could do it the other way around. You want an airlock of some kind on the outlet, or air will get in after fermentation ends.
Due to the shape of the keg lid, it holds about 3 oz of liquid when turned upside down and the PRV stem is removed. I measured this. With a full length dip tube properly centered in the bottom dimple of the keg, a simple purging will only leave about 1 oz of liquid in the keg. If you really want to get out every last drop you have to cut the gas "dip tube" flush with the keg wall, purge most of the sanitizer thru the liquid out, remove the CO2 from the gas post, attach the CO2 to the liquid post, invert the keg so that the gas dip tube is at the lowest point, and then press the gas poppet to blow out the last little bit of sanitizer. Personally, I don't think it's worth the trouble. Purging with fermentation gas is easier.
Brew on
Not having read all the replies, I will just add my process when kegging. I start by sanitizing the keg and my tap by putting 2.5 gallons of water into my keg and add the appropriate amount of Starsan to the keg. Seal it and roll it on the ground for about 2 mins or so. Once that is done, I hook it up to my tap by hooking up the CO2 bottle and the liquid line to the keg and pump the 2.5 gallons of water and sanitizer thru the tap and into a 5 gallon pot. I run the keg dry and shake it a few times to make sure I have as much liquid out of it as I can get. I do this twice and at the end of the second run, I simply remove the gas and liquid lines but keep the keg pressurized. I then move to my bucket, hook up my transfer line to the spigot of the bucket but don't hook it up to the liquid line of the keg yet as the pressure from the keg will cause beer to come out of the relief hole of the spigot. I will then take the gas line from my tank, take off the connection and put the open line into the hole in the top where the airlock goes. I then will add just enough pressure to the bucket to see the lid start to bulge, but not anything more than that. I let the PRV valve out on the keg to relieve the pressure on the keg and tank and hook up the transfer line to the liquid line of the keg. I then leave the PRV valve open and start the transfer by opening the spigot on the bucket. I figure the pressure from the gas will help get the liquid moving and the keg will be purged of CO2 while the liquid is moving from the bucket to the keg. Now, in the past, I have done the transfer by simple gravity, having the bucket sitting well above the keg, leaving the airlock on the hole and just opening the spigot once the transfer line is hooked to the liquid line of the keg and that seemed to work very well also. Sorry for the long response, but anytime I get a chance to share my process, good or bad, I enjoy sharing. I will let the pro's respond, but that has worked very well for me in the past,.
G_robertus
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I can confirm that buckets work fine to purge kegs and also do well in closed loop transfers. I do nearly the same as what @fluketamer posted, albeit with different connections. Up to now it has actually given me better results than doing it under pressure, but that is my own fault I think.
You might want to swap out the silicone for plastic (PVC, EVA) with low oxygen permeability is you want to let as little oxygen in as possible. I've heard about commercial breweries allegedly ruining batches using silicone post fermentation and they have since switched to teflon (although I think that too isn't even as impermeable iirc, I looked up some numbers once).
You might want to swap out the silicone for plastic (PVC, EVA) with low oxygen permeability is you want to let as little oxygen in as possible. I've heard about commercial breweries allegedly ruining batches using silicone post fermentation and they have since switched to teflon (although I think that too isn't even as impermeable iirc, I looked up some numbers once).
