Interesting pump flow discovery/idea

[Komodo]

Huh? There is no reason why it wouldn't work in both directions.

Believe me, I was kinda dumbfounded by the response. I even asked if they could explain to me why it wouldn't work in both directions.
They responded "It will not work because of how the seals and the valve are set up. There wouldn't be a way to seal it up against the kettle wall plus the linear portion of the valve would not work properly."
In my application, which is following pretty close to your ebiab setup @Bobby_M , it would be screwed into the kettles female NPT couplings using the male NPT arm of the valve. Then I'd use the valves female NPT to connect a quick release fitting / silicon hose to the pump. I was going to respond but realized I would likely be snarky and I gave up. I'm still undecided on what I'll do. My main reason for the linear valve was ease of cleaning. 2 piece aren't bad once correctly opened, three piece are heavier and have lots of parts disassembled. I'm also wondering on the flow rate vs regular ball valve?
Sorry OP, I didn't mean to hijack.

 

[natmartin]

Oh, maybe it's not a problem with letting flow through, as much as a problem with blocking flow. The seals are on the movable part, that slides forward into the cylinder. It might not seal between the "output" and the threaded side with the knob. Maybe it leaks if you turn it off and apply pressure on that side.

 

[natmartin]

If you don't need the right-angle configuration, you can check out SSBrewTech's linear valves. They are definitely bidirectional, and also are easy to clean.

 

[dzimm27]

Oh, maybe it's not a problem with letting flow through, as much as a problem with blocking flow. The seals are on the movable part, that slides forward into the cylinder. It might not seal between the "output" and the threaded side with the knob. Maybe it leaks if you turn it off and apply pressure on that side.

The rear seal never loses seating until the knob/bullet portion is forcibly pulled from the rest of the valve, regardless of how far it is unscrewed, so that seal is intact. Flow in one direction or the other would not make a difference considering it manages to not leak when under pump pressure. It is possible that hop matter might be more likely to clog if the flow didn't get pushed in over the bullet nose of the valve but even likely wouldn't make a big difference. Same amount of gap in the valve opening to allow flow either way should yield the same results. @Komodo what's the use case for reversing flow?

 

[Komodo]

In my application, I would be mounting the male side of the valve to my kettle wall female coupling. So, most of the time I would actually be using it in “reverse mode”. Underletting mash would be a case where I would use it in the other direction. Also, as my set up is basically @Bobby_M setup, the pickup tube valve would be reversed, but then for the recirc/whirlpool valve, it would be reentering the kettle the “correct” direction!

 

[Bobby_M]

Believe me, I was kinda dumbfounded by the response. I even asked if they could explain to me why it wouldn't work in both directions.
They responded "It will not work because of how the seals and the valve are set up. There wouldn't be a way to seal it up against the kettle wall plus the linear portion of the valve would not work properly."
In my application, which is following pretty close to your ebiab setup @Bobby_M , it would be screwed into the kettles female NPT couplings using the male NPT arm of the valve. Then I'd use the valves female NPT to connect a quick release fitting / silicon hose to the pump. I was going to respond but realized I would likely be snarky and I gave up. I'm still undecided on what I'll do. My main reason for the linear valve was ease of cleaning. 2 piece aren't bad once correctly opened, three piece are heavier and have lots of parts disassembled. I'm also wondering on the flow rate vs regular ball valve?
Sorry OP, I didn't mean to hijack.

The only thing I can think of is that they made the NPT ones specifically to work as a bulkhead on one end and they have tunnel vision on that. I haven't specifically checked, but it's possible the female side is BSPP thread rather than NPT. In their design, the male threaded end of their bulkhead could also be BSPP loose thread and the assembly would work as designed without allowing an male NPT to thread in. I can easily check tomorrow.

One reason I'm speculating is that I know for certain these male threads on the aseptic valve are BSPP

Bobby

 

[Bobby_M]

You know how I know Blichmann didn't really think their answer through? They use the linear flow valves on their own systems as the input to their whirlpool returns. That's why the flow direction doesn't matter but they absolutely were thinking about how the one end is made to attach to the kettle side (physically).

 

[Komodo]

I’m guessing you may be right about the female BSPP since it’s clearly designed as a bulkhead and the valve has the sealing Oring. It’s odd they sell the male bulkhead insert separately and don’t mention BPSS thread, and the website lists the valve as 1/2” NPT although they don’t indicate whether that’s the male or female end. I guess I assumed both.

 

[Tropicpine]

dzimm27: If your goal is to effect a tempature drop from 190 to 145 during mash, have you by any chance tried just tried circulating your 190° wert without the CFC in the loop to see how much heat all that pretty stainless steel hardware will shed into the ambient environment? It might be that a box fan blowing on your equipment will provide the temperature drop you need in an acceptable time frame. Try with a load of water for a simple test.

 

[Komodo]

The only thing I can think of is that they made the NPT ones specifically to work as a bulkhead on one end and they have tunnel vision on that. I haven't specifically checked, but it's possible the female side is BSPP thread rather than NPT. In their design, the male threaded end of their bulkhead could also be BSPP loose thread and the assembly would work as designed without allowing an male NPT to thread in. I can easily check tomorrow.

One reason I'm speculating is that I know for certain these male threads on the aseptic valve are BSPP


Bobby

I’ve been back and forth with Blichmann a couple more times. This was like pulling teeth, but finally got: “The threads are 1/2 inch NPT both male and female.”

Since all their responses have either been wrong or almost resistant(?), I don’t even trust that answer. Did you ever check one of the valves @Bobby_M?

 

[dzimm27]

dzimm27: If your goal is to effect a tempature drop from 190 to 145 during mash, have you by any chance tried just tried circulating your 190° wert without the CFC in the loop to see how much heat all that pretty stainless steel hardware will shed into the ambient environment? It might be that a box fan blowing on your equipment will provide the temperature drop you need in an acceptable time frame. Try with a load of water for a simple test.

Well, my initial goal was to be able to do a temp drop during mash - which I can definitely achieve quickly with the counterflow chiller. Without it (now that I have it), anything but CFC would be too slow! It is so FAST!

 

[doug293cz]

Well, my initial goal was to be able to do a temp drop during mash - which I can definitely achieve quickly with the counterflow chiller. Without it (now that I have it), anything but CFC would be too slow! It is so FAST!

What's your reasoning for a temp drop during the mash? You cannot reactivate enzymes after they have been denatured.

Brew on

 

[dzimm27]

What's your reasoning for a temp drop during the mash? You cannot reactivate enzymes after they have been denatured.

Brew on

I brew with gluten free grains (for my wife who is celiac) so I need to add additional enzymes as I brew. My older school gluten free doctrine had an initial gelatinization/cereal mash at 190 with Termamyl L, then drop to 145 and add Ondea Pro and SEBAmyl L, then raise up to 190 again. This is completely foreign to barley brewers of course.

The newer school of gluten free brewing involves a rising step mash from 125 - 145 - 175 with Ondea Pro and Ceremix Flex (being the enzyme that avoids the need for the cereal mash) added at the beginning. I am adapting to “new school” but not yet hitting my numbers as I expected with “old school”. I started building this system during “old school” methodology.

 

[mggray87]

Apologies if I'm misunderstanding anything, but why would you include the CFC in the path at all during a mash? Currently, I use camlocks and only put my CFC in the path in the last 15-20 mins of my boil. I've bought some 3-way valves from @Bobby_M for my next system that I'm currently building to solve that.

@Bobby_M im looking for a 3way TC so my spike solo doesnt drip disconnecting my quick connects to put chiller on last 5 min of boil then switching back.. please tell me you have a 1.5" TC 3 way with the inner diameter the same as what Spike uses for their flow and elbow. im not home but i think 1" ID? cant find one lol

 

[Broken Crow]

I can't find one on brewhardware.com but there is this;
https://www.brewershardware.com/tri...5-Tri-Clover-3-Way-Ball-Valve-TC15BALL3W.htmlhttps://www.blichmannengineering.com/3-way-ball-valve-1-5-inch-tri-clamp-l-type.htmlhttps://www.blichmannengineering.com/3-way-ball-valve-1-5-inch-tri-clamp-t-type.html

 

[mggray87]

I can't find one on brewhardware.com but there is this;
https://www.brewershardware.com/tri...5-Tri-Clover-3-Way-Ball-Valve-TC15BALL3W.htmlhttps://www.blichmannengineering.com/3-way-ball-valve-1-5-inch-tri-clamp-l-type.htmlhttps://www.blichmannengineering.com/3-way-ball-valve-1-5-inch-tri-clamp-t-type.html

Yea I've seen those. It appears to be 1.5" bore as well I gotta get up and measure spikes but I think they use 1" conduit on their 1.5" tri clamp fittings

 

[sbro]

Just measured a spike 1.5" TC 90 and it is a bit over .8" ID. The QD 1.5" TC fittings measure .5" ID to connect to the silicone hoses.

 

[Broken Crow]

Well..there is this:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/329...429995!sea!CA!0!AB&curPageLogUid=VeLL9g719pY0..pretty sure I've bought from that seller before and was satisfied...I've never been too certain about how much difference an oversized internal diameter would make, but I'd rather have too large than have less than 1/2" since that's the max size of most pumps and lines.

 

[Broken Crow]

...PS: You could always pair up these:
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/3wvalvel.htmhttps://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/tc15m12npt.htm

 

[mggray87]

Amazon has one too just late Nov and Dec delivery so not end of world. I can just disconnect hoses for first two brews.

Amazon.com 1". So .87" inside if that's what spike is using

 

[Jmezz]

webstaurantstore

Would you happen to have a link? That shelf add-on is perfect, and I can't seem to find it on that website. Thanks.

 

[day_trippr]

Might be here: https://www.webstaurantstore.com/14451/equipment-stands.html?filter=features:work-surface
I expect castors are an option/add-on...

Cheers!