Intentionally creating vinegar

[Beer666]

I know its obvious but you wont get a really strong vinegar from a session beer. Mine is not quite as acidic as commercial vinegar but its very close and very nice. I would not worry about the SCOBY dropping as a new one will form within a week. I have a jar with 4 or 5 at the bottom. They sink when you tip the jar for a taster. If your in a hurry just leave it alone.
My apple cider vinegar has never formed a SCOBY for some reason. Anyone know why? Its almost done.

 

[RPh_Guy]

a really strong vinegar from a session beer.

Assuming you let it ferment to completion, the final acetic acid level will be close to the initial ABV.

If you're in a hurry just leave it alone.

If you're in a hurry you need to keep it warm and add as much oxygen as possible.

One of the articles above said theirs is done in 6 hours, facilitated by adding huge amounts of air.

My apple cider vinegar has never formed a SCOBY for some reason. Anyone know why? Its almost done.

The film is called a pellicle.
Wild microbes are unpredictable. Did you add any culture to it from a batch that does form a pellicle?

Cheers

 

[Beer666]

Assuming you let it ferment to completion, the final acetic acid level will be close to the initial ABV.

If you're in a hurry you need to keep it warm and add as much oxygen as possible.

One of the articles above said theirs is done in 6 hours, facilitated by adding huge amounts of air.

The film is called a pellicle.
Wild microbes are unpredictable. Did you add any culture to it from a batch that does form a pellicle?

Cheers

It actually says on the bottle never been above 37c. Do they pump oxygen directly into the liquid? There is nowhere very warm in our house so will have to let nature take its course with mine.

I was under the impression it is a SCOBY as i read somewhere you can convert ( not sure if that the right term) to make kombucha. Looks like a mini pancake.

I initially added some organic apple cider vinegar to get it going. I have tried without but after a while it smelt like old socks so i had to add some vinegar. Its the batch below, the pong has faded and its getting close to finishing (i think).

 

[Miraculix]

It actually says on the bottle never been above 37c. Do they pump oxygen directly into the liquid? There is nowhere very warm in our house so will have to let nature take its course with mine.

I was under the impression it is a SCOBY as i read somewhere you can convert ( not sure if that the right term) to make kombucha. Looks like a mini pancake.

I initially added some organic apple cider vinegar to get it going. I have tried without but after a while it smelt like old socks so i had to add some vinegar. Its the batch below, the pong has faded and its getting close to finishing (i think).

View attachment 657239 View attachment 657240 View attachment 657241

Scoby, pellicle.... Kind of the same thing actually.

 

[RPh_Guy]

It actually says on the bottle never been above 37c

Most microbes work fastest in the 30-37°C (85-99°F) range.

Do they pump oxygen directly into the liquid?

"This [...] relatively large piece of machinery [...] [allows] the production times of vinegar to go down to around 6 hours per batch. [...] The ‘Frings Acetator’ works quickly by pumping 1600 L of air per hour thorough [sic] a carbon filter and into a type of blender where it is “atomized’ into the alcohol substrate. The alcohol is acetated [sic] at 30 °C and the acetator is equipped to keep this temperature stable."

If you felt the need to make large quantities of vinegar quickly, you certainly could do that at home...
Continuous aeration
https://www.morebeer.com/products/aeration-system.html
Heating
https://www.morebeer.com/products/fermwrap-heater.html
Temperature control
https://www.amazon.com/Inkbird-Max-1200W-Temperature-Controller-Greenhouse/dp/B01HXM5UAC/

Leaving it sit for weeks-months is fine too.

I was under the impression it is a SCOBY as i read somewhere you can convert ( not sure if that the right term) to make kombucha. Looks like a mini pancake.

SCOBY refers to a mixed culture of Yeast and Bacteria, the microscopic organisms.

These microbes can form a film; the film is called a pellicle. Not all pellicles are from a combination of yeast and bacteria, and a "SCOBY" (mixed culture) can exist without a pellicle. Therefore "SCOBY" does not equate "pellicle".

There are 3 different fermentations happening to various degrees in a wild mixed culture:
Sugar -> Ethanol (by yeast)
Sugar -> Lactic Acid (by lactic acid bacteria)
Ethanol -> Acetic Acid (secondary fermentation by acetic acid bacteria, and to a lesser extent, yeast and other types of bacteria)

The vinegar culture will indeed ferment sweet tea into something resembling kombucha, assuming the yeast haven't died. YMMV. There's no kind of "conversion" needed.

¡Salud!

 

[RogerL47]

Maybe. The more oxygen you can get in there, the faster it will finish. For example commerical vinegar can be produced in only a couple days because they continually add oxygen. If you're in a hurry you could easily do this with a stir plate or some kind of air pump like for fish tanks.

Acetobacter forms a pellicle that limits oxygen transmission, so a straw or tube might not be particularly helpful.

Infusing air into the batch transforms it into a "submerged" process rather than a "static" process, in which case, the process should be monitored closely. Once the acetobacter (Vinegar producing bacteria) consume all of the available food source which would be ethanol, they will start to consume the acetic acid already produced (Over oxidation). If this happens, the batch is converted back to water and cannot be recovered.

 

[RogerL47]

Update:

My vinegars are still doing... something. I think I have the white film indicative of a vinegar "mother" on two jars. The bubbling has died down a lot. I don't know whether the yeast ran out of food for making alcohol or whether the acetic acid bacteria aren't present or doing their thing. I added a little sugar to two jars to see what happens.

I've been punching down the fruit daily and so far no mold. The smell of the stuff isn't terribly strong. A faint combination of yeasty and vinegary. Most of the fruit pieces are starting to break down in the jars.... except for the quince. That stuff is tough.

It sounds as if you've got a process where you're expecting an ongoing ferment in both, alcohol production and then vinegar production. Quite possible but very difficult to balance.

 

[RogerL47]

The toxin causes muscle paralysis. With full muscle inhibition you will be dead in minutes. It turns out that you need your diaphragm and cardiac musculature. Plenty of people die from food poisoning.

Take a grain of sand. Break it (hypothetically) into 10 pieces. Just one of those pieces will kill you. In fact, 2 kg of botulism is able to kill every living person on earth. The military once thought of using it for chemical warfare.

Fortunately 100C destroys the toxin. This type of bacteria is cyst forming. The cyst remains active for many years. These cysts have been found in Egyptian tombs and very much alive. To kill these cysts, the water temperature must be raised to a 115C which can be accomplished with a pressure cooker. That is why there are "canning" pressure cookers.

 

[RogerL47]

It actually says on the bottle never been above 37c. Do they pump oxygen directly into the liquid? There is nowhere very warm in our house so will have to let nature take its course with mine.

I was under the impression it is a SCOBY as i read somewhere you can convert ( not sure if that the right term) to make kombucha. Looks like a mini pancake.

I initially added some organic apple cider vinegar to get it going. I have tried without but after a while it smelt like old socks so i had to add some vinegar. Its the batch below, the pong has faded and its getting close to finishing (i think).

View attachment 657239 View attachment 657240 View attachment 657241

From the looks of the "mother", that batch has been finished for quite some time. It is possible that it will then go into a 3rd phase (over oxidation), where the batch will be converted back to plain water.