Improved Mash Efficiency - Thanks!

[doug293cz]

... I've never heard of anyone draining to the kettle as they are pouring the sparge water into the mash tun. ...

Really? It's called fly sparging.

Brew on

 

[doug293cz]

yes and no. It depends on what you believe the draining process is. If you rapidly drain the wort, add sparge water, and immediately rapidly drain. Your efficiency will be lower. Now if you rapidly drain, add sparge water, wait sometime (10-20 minutes) you will see higher efficiencies. They are both batch sparging but different technics of sparging.

I have never found that waiting has made any difference in my efficiency. I add the sparge, stir very well, vorlauf with the valve only opened a little. Once it is running clear I open it all the way.

When I have waited the 10-20 minutes it made no measurable difference.

YMMV.

To get the most benefit (efficiency) from a batch sparge, you want the sugar concentration in the sparged wort to be uniform throughout the MLT. You can achieve this by vigorous stirring for a couple of minutes, or just adding the water and waiting for diffusion to get rid of the concentration gradients. Stirring is much faster. Once you have achieved uniform concentration throughout, neither additional time, nor additional stirring will allow you to extract any additional sugar (provide any increase in efficiency.)

The above assumes you have reached ~100% conversion efficiency or mashed out, so that no additional conversion is occurring during the sparge.

Brew on

 

[doug293cz]

I'm having a hard time buying the theory that higher efficiency leads to thinner or more watery beers for worts with identical mash processes and OG's. In order for this to happen, you would have to get proportionately less of some body/flavor producing component from more thorough rinsing of the grain. For this to happen, something that was in the liquid in the original mash would have to go back into the grits (or precipitate out) during the sparge step, so that proportionately less of it is recovered during the sparge vs. 1st runnings.

It is possible to get proportionately more of a component during sparging, if and only if, the concentration of that component in the original mash was at its solubility limit, and therefore more of this component could be dissolved out of the grain during the sparge. This is never the case for sugar, as the solubility limit is at an SG in the 1.300 range at mash temp. I don't see how getting more of a low solubility, minor component in the wort could make it thinner or more watery.

Can anyone explain a mechanism that would cause higher efficiency brews to be thinner or more watery.

Brew on

 

[dmtaylor]

I'm having a hard time buying the theory that higher efficiency leads to thinner or more watery beers for worts with identical mash processes and OG's.

I'm probably just not using the right words, not explaining it properly. Perhaps what is really going on is a lack of depth of flavor, as opposed to "thin or watery". My soul yearns for deep malty flavors. I am a malthead. And at 94% brewhouse, I wasn't getting it. The flavors were all there, but were not as awesome as I wished they would be.

 

[LarMoeCur]

I'm having a hard time buying the theory that higher efficiency leads to thinner or more watery beers for worts with identical mash processes and OG's. In order for this to happen, you would have to get proportionately less of some body/flavor producing component from more thorough rinsing of the grain. For this to happen, something that was in the liquid in the original mash would have to go back into the grits (or precipitate out) during the sparge step, so that proportionately less of it is recovered during the sparge vs. 1st runnings.

It is possible to get proportionately more of a component during sparging, if and only if, the concentration of that component in the original mash was at its solubility limit, and therefore more of this component could be dissolved out of the grain during the sparge. This is never the case for sugar, as the solubility limit is at an SG in the 1.300 range at mash temp. I don't see how getting more of a low solubility, minor component in the wort could make it thinner or more watery.

Can anyone explain a mechanism that would cause higher efficiency brews to be thinner or more watery.

Brew on

From what John Palmer said on the pod cast. There are proteins and other things are being extracted. These can lead to less mouth feel in the beer. If I'm remembering right the reason is that the proteins make the yeast over attenuate. but don't quote me i'm old.

 

[LarMoeCur]

Really? It's called fly sparging.

Brew on

Let me rephrase...I've never heard of anyone draining to the kettle as they are pouring the sparge water into the mash tun and call it Batch Sparging.

Better?