Imperial Stout primary to bottle

[pdog44450]

I was at a fancy restaurant and was wise enough to order an "Old Rasputin Russian Imperial Stout" which was absolutely phenomenal, and usually after I try a beer like this I end up brewing a clone. So I got the recipe from BYO and bought the ingredients. Tomorrow I plan on brewing it but need some advice.

The biggest beer I've ever brewed was a 7.9% IPA which turned out great with 3 week in the primary then bottled. This is an estimated 1.090 and 9%. However, all this research I've done everybody and their grandmother are praising leaving a RIS in the primary for a month then 3+ months in the secondary. Now I've personally never used a secondary in my life and don't plan on it in the future.

Does anybody see anything wrong with or have done something like primary for 4-6 weeks then bottle as is, no added yeast?

 

[SlanginDueces]

I have brewed the BYO clone recipe many times as published as well as with modifications. If you pitch a proper amount of yeast you will reach FG in less then two weeks. I have kegged in as little as 16 days and received 40+ scores. A "secondary" is absolutely unnecessary. My usual is 3 weeks then keg but I don't think you would have any negative effects out to 6.

 

[pdog44450]

I have brewed the BYO clone recipe many times as published as well as with modifications. If you pitch a proper amount of yeast you will reach FG in less then two weeks. I have kegged in as little as 16 days and received 40+ scores. A "secondary" is absolutely unnecessary. My usual is 3 weeks then keg but I don't think you would have any negative effects out to 6.

That's what I was thinking, good to have assurance. As you said I don't think a beer this big would have a problem on the cake for an extended period. What CO2 volumes did you use in the clone that you felt was good?

 

[SlanginDueces]

Eh....not sure what the volume is. I set my keg at 12ish PSI for 3-4 days and it tastes right.

 

[urg8rb8]

I've made an RIS with similar original gravity. Primary for two weeks. Secondary for two weeks (cocao power, nibs, and PB2). Been bottle aging now for three months. Opened a bottle recently and carbonation is perfect.

 

[SlanginDueces]

The recipe is spot on btw

 

[azazel1024]

Don't use a secondary. I rarely use one these days and almost only for fruit beers where I drop the fruit in primary, rack to secondary after a week and then cold crash.

My RISs I generally let sit in primary for 4-6 weeks, bottle and then shove the case under my oil tank to forget about for 6 months. My typical batch is large enough for a case + 3-5 bottles, so I'll leave the "spare" bottles on my shelves and I'll crack a bottle every 4-6 weeks just to make sure it carbs and also to see how it is evolving.

IMHO, but I think general consensus, you are looking at a minimum of 6 months to start hitting the proper aging and 12+ months is better. RIS need aging like most heavy beers and it is going to be young at 3 months post bottling (unless you left it in primary for 3-4 months and then it was in the bottle for 3 months).

My Coffee Oatmeal RIS I bottled 3 years ago when I first started brewing (about 6 months in) was okay at 3 months. It was good at 6 months. It was great at a year, it was amazing at 18 months and still amazing at 22 months when I opened the final bottle (a bomber). I wish I had made a much larger batch of it at the time (didn't have the pot size for it with BiaB).

I brewed up a regular RIS that hit 10.5% ABV and actually really sweet, with only 67% attenuation (something like 1.112 OG down to 1.032FG or something in that ballpark). It was okay, drinkable, but nothing special at a month in the bottle (2 months post brew day). It was pleasant at 3 months in the bottle. It hit good at 6 months and now at about 8 months it is really good. It probably still really needs another 6-12 months to hit its peak. The aging has mellowed the malty sweetness and brought forward some of the roastiness from the roasted barley and chocolate malt. Also allowing just the tinniest hint of alcohol warmth now, all of which was kind of hiding behind being a little too sweet without quite enough IBUs to mask it (as I had built the recipe figuring 72% attenuation and about 11% ABV). I think it needs somewhat more oxidation and aging on it. I'll probably still bring a 6-pack to Thanksgiving as my Father-in-law loves RIS. Also brewing Bitters for him, his first ever request for me to brew him a beer (he is a hard man to please and almost never gives words of praise, but the Session ale I brewed he actually commented he liked, and "oh, maybe you could brew some Bitters. Something barely carbonated and extremely drinkable"). Gotta do that soon.

 

[SlanginDueces]

North Coast gets Old Rasputin on the shelves is less than a month from brew date. With this balanced recipe you can enjoy a delicious RIS without the painful wait!

 

[d3track]

It's not so much about using a secondary or not, it's letting it age and meld in a beer with so much going on. Some bulk age in a carboy (me), some in a keg, some bottle.

Like most things home brewing, it's not "right vs wrong" as much as "what works best for you"

 

[pdog44450]

North Coast gets Old Rasputin on the shelves is less than a month from brew date. With this balanced recipe you can enjoy a delicious RIS without the painful wait!

I noticed that on BYO. Is there any truth to this or verification?

 

[pdog44450]

It's not so much about using a secondary or not, it's letting it age and meld in a beer with so much going on. Some bulk age in a carboy (me), some in a keg, some bottle.

Like most things home brewing, it's not "right vs wrong" as much as "what works best for you"

I guess a good question to that would be is there substantial differences in the final product from doing any of those as opposed to the others?

 

[pdog44450]

Don't use a secondary. I rarely use one these days and almost only for fruit beers where I drop the fruit in primary, rack to secondary after a week and then cold crash.

My RISs I generally let sit in primary for 4-6 weeks, bottle and then shove the case under my oil tank to forget about for 6 months. My typical batch is large enough for a case + 3-5 bottles, so I'll leave the "spare" bottles on my shelves and I'll crack a bottle every 4-6 weeks just to make sure it carbs and also to see how it is evolving.

IMHO, but I think general consensus, you are looking at a minimum of 6 months to start hitting the proper aging and 12+ months is better. RIS need aging like most heavy beers and it is going to be young at 3 months post bottling (unless you left it in primary for 3-4 months and then it was in the bottle for 3 months).

My Coffee Oatmeal RIS I bottled 3 years ago when I first started brewing (about 6 months in) was okay at 3 months. It was good at 6 months. It was great at a year, it was amazing at 18 months and still amazing at 22 months when I opened the final bottle (a bomber). I wish I had made a much larger batch of it at the time (didn't have the pot size for it with BiaB).

I brewed up a regular RIS that hit 10.5% ABV and actually really sweet, with only 67% attenuation (something like 1.112 OG down to 1.032FG or something in that ballpark). It was okay, drinkable, but nothing special at a month in the bottle (2 months post brew day). It was pleasant at 3 months in the bottle. It hit good at 6 months and now at about 8 months it is really good. It probably still really needs another 6-12 months to hit its peak. The aging has mellowed the malty sweetness and brought forward some of the roastiness from the roasted barley and chocolate malt. Also allowing just the tinniest hint of alcohol warmth now, all of which was kind of hiding behind being a little too sweet without quite enough IBUs to mask it (as I had built the recipe figuring 72% attenuation and about 11% ABV). I think it needs somewhat more oxidation and aging on it. I'll probably still bring a 6-pack to Thanksgiving as my Father-in-law loves RIS. Also brewing Bitters for him, his first ever request for me to brew him a beer (he is a hard man to please and almost never gives words of praise, but the Session ale I brewed he actually commented he liked, and "oh, maybe you could brew some Bitters. Something barely carbonated and extremely drinkable"). Gotta do that soon.

Like I mentioned I've never used a secondary in my probably 30+ batches and always felt I was missing out. BUT after hearing Revvy, others on HBT including you, and even John Palmer saying skipping secondary could make even better beer I've changed my thinking on that.

My situation is currently the exact same as yours was. I usually get around 26 bottles per batch and I BIAB in a 4 gallon pot (I'm assuming yours was right around the same size).

As you said beers like this get better with age. I plan on primary for 4 weeks then I'll just go straight to bottle. I'll try it incrementally to check flavor. If it is good after a short amount of time, I will probably get more ingredients and brew another batch or two just to bottle age for months to years like you mentioned. Thanks for taking the time to write all that!

 

[d3track]

I guess a good question to that would be is there substantial differences in the final product from doing any of those as opposed to the others?

I personally don't think so, but have not tried splitting a a batch to do a true comparison

 

[azazel1024]

Like I mentioned I've never used a secondary in my probably 30+ batches and always felt I was missing out. BUT after hearing Revvy, others on HBT including you, and even John Palmer saying skipping secondary could make even better beer I've changed my thinking on that.

My situation is currently the exact same as yours was. I usually get around 26 bottles per batch and I BIAB in a 4 gallon pot (I'm assuming yours was right around the same size).

As you said beers like this get better with age. I plan on primary for 4 weeks then I'll just go straight to bottle. I'll try it incrementally to check flavor. If it is good after a short amount of time, I will probably get more ingredients and brew another batch or two just to bottle age for months to years like you mentioned. Thanks for taking the time to write all that!

A 6 and a 4 gallon actually. I typically BiaB with batch sparging. So I'll do about 2/3rds 1/3rd on the water. I used to be doing a 60 minute mash, then 15 minute batch sparge in 168F water. Recently I've switched to doing no batch sparge for smaller 2.5-3 gallon batches and a 45 minute mash and then mash out at around 165F. The larger 3+ gallon batches I still batch sparge, but I only do a 45 minute mash now.

I've tested every beer from my 1.084OG Double IPL to a 1.064OG Pumpkin Stout and some nice light/medium ales and lagers in between and none have shown purple past 30 minutes at mash temps from 146F (for the double IPL) to 158F. So I feel pretty safe at 45 minutes now.

I am taking a step back and looking at the secondary thing and revising it to say that I probably won't use it much. I will possibly start using it on the occasional lager. At least the Oktoberfest I brewed picked up a lot of sediment even trying to be careful. A rather poorly flocculating yeast. The German lager yeast I use is pretty good at flocculating though and I don't seem to pick up any real clarity/sediment reduction in bottle by putting it through a secondary.

So I might do a secondary for my Oktoberfests if I continue using the White Labs Oktoberfest yeast.