Impact of freezing on Wyeast Pack?

[Braufessor]

Does anyone have any information on the viability of Wyeast packs that get frozen in transit?

I had an order from NBrewer that they sent over last weekend.... so, instead of 1 day transit, it was about 3 days in very cold weather and the packs arrived frozen - beyond slushy, closer to solid.

I notified them and they were very gracious to send 3 new packs. I told them there was not a hurry on them and preferred they wait a week/few days to send them so they did not get hung up over New Years and some upcoming COLD weather (this weekend.) Well....... they sent them on friday, which means they are once again going to sit in UPS on Saturday, Sunday and get delivered on Monday sometime. Temps are plummeting to -25 degrees air temp tonight with highs of -15 tomorrow....... So, once again, I will be getting yeast packs that are frozen solid probably.

I did smack one of the original packs. It did gradually/slowly inflate (american wheat). I recognize that they yeast (or some of it) is still "viable". Just kind of wondering what the impact is. I assume that a "new" Wyeast pack that gets frozen is not really a "new" pack anymore in relation to quality and viability. Anyone know to what degree?

I make starters on stir plates anyway, so I will build them back up. Wondering How much more though?

 

[aiptasia]

Just read up on a production article on Wyeast and White Labs on the BYO website. The yeast solution in the tubes and the inner portion of the smack packs only contain the yeast sample and distilled water. They only preserve yeast using glycerin for long term storage, not in their consumer products.

Freezing encourages ice crystals to form which destroys cell walls in yeast. If the yeast did freeze solid, i'm sure it won't be viable enough to brew with directly. I would probably make a stepped starter to get any remaining cell counts up.

 

[Riot]

Even if you're down to 10% viability you should be able to do it in 2 steps. Just be gentle with the first one, those yeast have been through a war.

 

[Braufessor]

Yeah...... Kind of what I was thinking. I honestly can't understand why Northern Brewer would even consider sending out packages with yeast on a friday/saturday (when they KNOW for a fact that it is going to sit over the weekend) a weekend that has been advertised every day for the last week as being the coldest temps. in a decade. It is going to be -35 or worse air temp. in minnesota...... 100% of the yeast they send in this window of 3-4 days is going to be frozen solid. Why wouldn't you just wait a couple days? Especially when I told them to wait before sending out the second batch of yeast.

 

[craigger64]

Last winter i received a Wyeast pack from NB that arrived "slushy". I don't know whether or not it was ever frozen solid, but it had obviously gotten a bit "too cold" to say the least. I was a bit worried. I let it "defrost" at room temp, and smacked it before making my starter. That pack swelled up bigger than any other smack-pack I have ever used! It looked like it could burst! My starter took off like crazy and I had an awesome fermentation in that batch of beer.

 

[PGHcableguy]

Received my kit today from NB and sure enough the Wyeast and LME were both frozen solid. I am not worried about the LME but the Wyeast smack pack. I waited for it thaw out and smacked it. It has been sitting for 4 or 5 hours and the package is not "swelling". I called NB and they said wait a week and call back and they would replace it.

 

[Braufessor]

yep - all 3 of mine were frozen as solid as a rock the second time too.

Make sure you do a starter on any frozen packs. They do swell back up gradually, but you can bet that it is not the same as a healthy "new" pack.

Especially this time of year with so many beginners - it is really kind of disingenuous to tell people that "the yeast will be fine". A normal smack pack (new) really is borderline for pitching into beer as is...... telling people to pitch a pack that froze would result in fairly substantial underpitching I would think.

 

[PRE66_6TART]

Does anyone have any information on the viability of Wyeast packs that get frozen in transit?

I had heard that Chris White says you only lose 10%. Looking for a quote I found this. I assume it would apply to Wyeast as well.

"Thank you for your inquiry. Some yeast cells will die when the yeast freezes which can reduce the viability by approximately 10%. However, in our experience, this reduction is not significant to cause fermentation problems. While it is not desirable to freeze the yeast on purpose, incidental freezing during shipping or storage is not usually a problem. Making a starter is probably the best recommendation for your brew. Stay warm!

Lisa R. White

Vice-President

White Labs, Inc."

EDIT: By the way, I agree that pitching one pack of yeast is already borderline underpitching and pitching a pack that froze without a starter is probably a bad idea. Especially if it might have frozen and thawed more than once. But then again, making a starter is usually a good idea. I wonder if yeast ever freezes during the supply chain that we don't even know about?

 

[TyTanium]

I had heard that Chris White says you only lose 10%. Looking for a quote I found this. I assume it would apply to Wyeast as well.

"Thank you for your inquiry. Some yeast cells will die when the yeast freezes which can reduce the viability by approximately 10%. However, in our experience, this reduction is not significant to cause fermentation problems. While it is not desirable to freeze the yeast on purpose, incidental freezing during shipping or storage is not usually a problem. Making a starter is probably the best recommendation for your brew. Stay warm!
..."

That is really surprising to me, in a good way. Thanks.

 

[Grannyknot]

I ordered some yeast from Farmhouse last week and they shipped it Monday, right as the Midwest cold temps moved into the southeast. It was supposed to deliver today, but UPS now updates its status as "On Hold for unexpected weather conditions".

I assume I will be receiving 2 frozen smack packs, which i'm not happy about.

The question I have is, who bears the burden of this misfortune? obviously a weather event is nobody's fault, but the retailer got paid for the yeast, the carrier got paid for the shipment, and the customer gets a product that is sub-standard that they paid full price for. Just doesn't seem right that the burden is passed right along to the customer, even if it was out of anyone's control. I'm considering asking this question of farmhouse, but I usually try to keep my gripes to a minimum.

 

[Braufessor]

I had heard that Chris White says you only lose 10%. Looking for a quote I found this. I assume it would apply to Wyeast as well.

"Thank you for your inquiry. Some yeast cells will die when the yeast freezes which can reduce the viability by approximately 10%. However, in our experience, this reduction is not significant to cause fermentation problems. While it is not desirable to freeze the yeast on purpose, incidental freezing during shipping or storage is not usually a problem. Making a starter is probably the best recommendation for your brew. Stay warm!

Lisa R. White

Vice-President


White Labs, Inc."

EDIT: By the way, I agree that pitching one pack of yeast is already borderline underpitching and pitching a pack that froze without a starter is probably a bad idea. Especially if it might have frozen and thawed more than once. But then again, making a starter is usually a good idea. I wonder if yeast ever freezes during the supply chain that we don't even know about?

Thanks for the info - that makes me feel better as well. And, as I mentioned earlier too - when I contacted Northern Brewer, the first thing they said was that they would get some new packs out.... Just wish they would wait to send yeast on monday instead of friday when it is going to sit in -20 weather. I do feel better about the overall viability though, especially with a good starter.

 

[lbco318]

I recently had a Roselare smack pack show up frozen. Thawed it out, smacked it, and within four hours it was fully ballooned and swollen. Pitched it into a stout and it is Rollin!!

 

[mrduna01]

Same thing happened to me on a NB order. I emailed them about it and they wouldn't replace, said it didn't hurt anything. Either way I made a starter and all is well.

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[PGHcableguy]

We will see what happens , just brewed a Belgian Dubbel and used the Wyeast 1214 that arrived frozen in another kit from NB.

 

[mrduna01]

I pitched my 1 litre starter six hours ago and she's taking off already. Yeast is surprisingly tough.

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[Riot]

I have seen so many successful starter reports in the last month or so I think I'm finally gonna risk winter yeast shipping. If I want an attempt towards Guinness ready for March I need to start it pretty soon.

 

[teeotee]

I'm going to chime in on this too. I got two frozen/slushy Wyeast packs, a Ringwood ale and a 1056. I had emailed NB ahead of time since I knew they would be left outside before anyone was home. This is the response i got.

"Freezing is actually less of an issue for liquid yeast than you might think. Freezing the cells puts the yeast into a stasis from which they typically are able to remain viable for your batch after being allowed to thaw out in your fridge for 48 hours. I'd recommend activating your packs at least 48-72 hours prior to brewing after the yeast has been thawed in your fridge. Should it fail to expand please let us know & we'll replace the yeast within three months for no extra cost."

Well i did as suggested, the Ringwood expanded like normal, so i pitched that yesterday into a batch of St Paul Porter at 5:00 pm. NO airlock activity after 12 hours but will wait, i have learnt to be patient with homebrewing.
The 1056 swelled but not as much as normal. This is going to be pitched into a dead ringer batch so i went ahead and made a starter out of it. The starter is looking ok but i think i will step it up at least once more before pitching.

I can post updates as things progress.

 

[Doongie]

The question I have is, who bears the burden of this misfortune?

I don't think it should be the responsibility of the company to track the weather where their customers deliveries are shipping to. While they do make an effort to protect the product during shipping (cooling packs in warm weather), that recent weather event was extreme, and considering what I think I know about yeast, I probably would have delayed my order rather than expect it to arrive unharmed. I may also have considered dry yeast instead.

 

[mrduna01]

I don't think it should be the responsibility of the company to track the weather where their customers deliveries are shipping to. While they do make an effort to protect the product during shipping (cooling packs in warm weather), that recent weather event was extreme, and considering what I think I know about yeast, I probably would have delayed my order rather than expect it to arrive unharmed. I may also have considered dry yeast instead.

Even though I had the same issues I agree with this. I would never expect a replacement. Nothing a proper starter wont fix.

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