Immersion or plate chiller

[skyducati832003]

Hi all,

This is a bit of a debatable post. I'm setting up a micro Brewery in Liverpool and I've been researching what's the best way to cool the wort.

There mixed reviews online regarding pros and cons for immersion and plate but does anyone have experience using either?

I'm thinking about buying the blichmann therminator plate chiller.

Thanks for your help everyone

 

[ifnotuthenwho]

I have the blichman terminator and I love it. But you need to make it easy to back flush it right away. I spent the money for quick connects on all the ports, so I can quickly hook my garden hose up to the Wort Out port as soon as I am done chilling the wort.

To me the only benefit of an immersion chiller is the easy sanitation. Just plop it into your kettle about 10 minutes before the boil is done, and it is sanitized. But it takes a lot longer to cool your wort.

 

[iijakii]

Everyone has their own opinion from what's worked for them. I think plate chillers are way too much work to clean, prevent clogs etc. But you mention a microbrewery so I am picturing a larger batch size, wouldn't go IC either. CFC will be the way to go.

 

[skyducati832003]

Thanks for all the support. I'm thinking the blichmann plate chiller. I've heard they are slightly more effect to clean but as long as your prepared it's worth the effort as you chill wort really quick.

 

[skyducati832003]

I'm newish to brewing as well and was curious to know what CFC is

 

[bruteforce]

Counterflow chiller. Copper tube that wort runs through inside a larger copper tube that water runs through. Sort of like a plate chiller, but with tubes.

 

[augiedoggy]

Hi all,

This is a bit of a debatable post. I'm setting up a micro Brewery in Liverpool and I've been researching what's the best way to cool the wort.

There mixed reviews online regarding pros and cons for immersion and plate but does anyone have experience using either?

I'm thinking about buying the blichmann therminator plate chiller.

Thanks for your help everyone

I advise against the blichmann for two reasons as I see them.

1) The length of the plate chiller makes it far more efficient than the amount of plates.This is due to longer contact time between hot and cold surfaces on one pass through the chiller (This is why the 10 plate shirron performs about the same as the 30 plate blichmann ) plus the more plates you have the more dead space areas for things to get stuck in your chiller if your worried about that and this makes total sense from a practical standpoint. Its explained well here, https://www.dudadiesel.com/search.php?query=+wort++chiller&i=beerchillers FYI the duda $84 economy chiller model b3 12a has the same dimensions and amount of plates as the blichmann just to give you an idea of what your really getting for your money, marketing costs aside the only difference between the two is where the water ports are located which has no effect on performance that I know of. you can compare the performance of the B3-12a/30 which is the blichmann equivilent to other longer models here. http://www.dudadiesel.com/files/beerwortchart.pdf

2) The blichmann chiller is literally more than twice the retail price than any other chiller with the same dimensions and specs..whomever makes them for blichmann just moves the water ports to the opposite side compared to the common design. Theres no advantage here unless you need the water hookups on the opposite side for some reason. for the same money you can get chillers from actual chiller retailers that perform over 3 times as well. This just shows how strong marketing can be over actual performance.

I use a longer duda diesel B3-23a 20 plate chiller (about $105) which outperforms both the commonly sold 10 plate shirron of the same legth due to twice the plates as well as the blichmann. All the breweries I've been to seem to use larger plate chillers on a cart... Ive never seen an imersion chiller in a micro brewery... I could see them in a nano environment though... I never used a CFC but they look like they would work well too. I have had zero issues with solids in my plate chiller so never really gave anything else a though after ditching my slow immersion chiller.

And no I have no affiliation with Duda Diesel... I just used them myself and remember the info being on his site.

 

[skyducati832003]

Thanks for your comments this all really helps.

I am drawn to a plate chiller but might find an alternative to blichmann. The most expensive isn't always the best I guess

 

[augiedoggy]

Thanks for your comments this all really helps.

I am drawn to a plate chiller but might find an alternative to blichmann. The most expensive isn't always the best I guess

Dont get me wrong blichmann makes some very nice stuff and this is coming from someone who thinks they just charge too damn much and have become the exotic car company of homebrewing.. Many people get lazy though when it comes to research and just find it easier to buy everything from one supplier or one brand name and this just isnt the best thing to do... A company that specializes in say kettles is not always got to be the best choice for say a gas burner or in this case a chiller...

 

[skyducati832003]

Totally agree great point. Do research and explore options. Ask for help which is why I think this forum is great. Thanks to everyone for your advice and happy brewing!

 

[AkBrew907]

I use the Bilchman and with the cold Alaska water I have out of my garden hose I can take boiling wort down to 50 degrees in a single pass. I am very impressed with it. I usually control the flow to hit around 70 so I can pitch the yeast during transfer.

 

[normonster]

I have the Therminator as well and it works great but I'll be switching to CFC as soon as I can because the difficulty of cleaning (and not really knowing) with the Blich is a b17ch.

 

[JonW]

My last brew rig had a Therminator, but my new brew system is using a DudaDiesel B3-36A-40. Night and day difference. My ground water is very warm and I used to recircualte back into my BK for about 20 minutes before running into the fermenter at low 70's. Last Sunday I did my first brew day on my new rig and the DD chiller brought the wort to 70 in a single pass. I'm saving chilling time and water!

 

[Louder]

The Duda looks great! Was just about to go with a Therminator, but these look like a much better investment. A question for the group, do you use a pump or gravity? And if gravity, how high above the plate chiller does the kettle need to be for optimal flow?

 

[tsever00]

I have the Hydra immersion chiller from www.jadedbrewing.com and it will chill a 5 gallon batch to 65 degrees in about 4 minutes. Cleanup takes about 30 seconds. It uses under 20 gallons to chill a 5 gallon batch and I use the first 5-10 gallons for cleaning water. I looked at counterflow and plate chillers and the main complaint was cleanup. The Hydra chiller is built very well.

 

[augiedoggy]

I have the Hydra immersion chiller from www.jadedbrewing.com and it will chill a 5 gallon batch to 65 degrees in about 4 minutes. Cleanup takes about 30 seconds. It uses under 20 gallons to chill a 5 gallon batch and I use the first 5-10 gallons for cleaning water. I looked at counterflow and plate chillers and the main complaint was cleanup. The Hydra chiller is built very well.

From what Ive read and thats been reported bycounterflow chiller users, Unless you have a brush head thats long enough to reach the entire length of a counterflow chiller. It gets a slimy nasty buildup in many cases as well...

I always run hot water through my chiller when im done but every few uses I'll run pbw through it for a while to do a better job of cleaning it... otherwise as long as you have decent hop filtration cleaning either a should be about the same.
The advantage the counter flow has is that it does better with high trub and poor hop filtered wort as far as having no places for solid particles to lodge themselves inside. An immersion chiller is the easiest to keep clean but come in last as far as performance.

 

[TX_Brewing]

Look at the jaded brewing counterflow chiller, it is the only design I have seen that can be really well cleaned and inspected. It is a bit bulky, but that is a small price to pay in my opinion. For the record I use an immersion chiller as I only make 6 gallon batches. If I were to go immersion, it would be the jaded chiller.

 

[tracyk]

I did the research on plate chillers and ended up going with DudaDiesel B3-36A-40 plate chiller. Like JonW stated there is a world of difference between the Blichmann and DudaDiesel. A brewer friend has the Blichmann and swears by it, but he also has to put a small 3/8 immersion chiller in front of his plate chiller to get his temp water down to 70. I run the DudaDiesel through on one pass and get my wort down to 70- 73. Now granted we both live in Texas where the ground water can get pretty hot during the summer months, but he is having to do an immersion chiller in another bucket with ice water, plus his plate chiller. I certainly do not need all that equipment, just the plate chiller.

I flush it out with hot water after each use, then fill the plate chiller up with StarSan and let it sit 24. It is usually sitting in my StanSan bucket, then drain. I have not had any problems with the plate chiller, but I also have a hop spider on my equipment.

 

[jrgtr42]

I think it depends on what batch size the OP is looking at - he did mention a microbrewery, so that implies going professional (to me at least.) Therefore you're probably looking at a multi-barrel brew system. You're going to want a plate chiller or something even more pro.
For something in the line of 5 - 10 gallons (20 - 40 liters) an immersion does the trick not much longer than plate. I have a homebuilt immersion, 50' of 1/2" copper tubing, that will bring it (usually target 5.5 or so gallons into fermenter) down from boiling to 60 - 65, depending on the season, in about 15 minutes. That is plenty quick enough for my uses.

 

[Duda_Energy]

Fair warning, unlike the other posters, I *am* affiliated with DudaDiesel.

I think it depends on what batch size the OP is looking at - he did mention a microbrewery, so that implies going professional (to me at least.)

This hits the nail on the head. For a guy only doing a 5 gallon batch every few months, I can certainly see the virtue in a CFC, which is easier to clean as everyone stated.

For 10 gallon to 1 barrel guys, our 23a and 36a series are extremely popular.

For a microbrewery, we do have plate heat exchangers designed to chill 10 barrels from boiling to pitch in under 10 minutes. My main concern is these are rather large and heavy, so shipping to the UK would be up there.

 

[JonW]

Fair warning, unlike the other posters, I *am* affiliated with DudaDiesel.

Dude, you're so chill.