I'm going to skip starting with extract and start with all-grain
- Thread starter jetmac
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ReverseApacheMaster
Well-Known Member
Temperature control is critical from the start of the mash all the way to bottle conditioning.
Temperature control is arguably the one thing more important than sanitation, but sanitation is definitely another really important concern.
Temperature control is arguably the one thing more important than sanitation, but sanitation is definitely another really important concern.
jigidyjim
Well-Known Member
You can definitely do it. There's just more to pay attention to. And the other thing is that your beer won't turn out exactly as you plan, since you don't know what your brewhouse efficiency is yet. But it'll probably still turn out great. Just be patient and follow some well-written instructions that you can find here (or that your friends are helping you with).
buzzkill
Well-Known Member
wish I would have had some all grain friends when I started, I could have saved some money on alot of gear that I outgrew within the first year.
TacoGuthrie
Well-Known Member
I did 3 extract batches before making the jump. Looking back I wish i went straight to AG. I would've screwed a batch or two and I would've read up on everything a lot more than i did but i still say 'go for it'.
I agree with the temp control comment.
I agree with the temp control comment.
I think you have made a very wise choice. AG is not the mysterious realm of beer gurus that many would like some to think. Having the equiptment is all it takes. If you can follow a cookie recipe, you can brew AG...
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Carter5112
Well-Known Member
I like it! I went AG after 2 brews. I just couldn't help myself. Biggest problem you'll run into I think is troubleshooting flaws in the final product. Starting off with extract would allow you to focus on the boil and fermentation more. I don't blame you though. I didn't really feel like I made beer till I started from the grain. Read the stickies here on All Grain and Palmer's book if you haven't and you'll be set. The one thing it's taken me several batches to pinpoint is increased dough-in water temp to account for grain and tun temps as well as lauter water temp to increase grain bed temp to desired.
jetmac
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the replies. I have read John Palmers book. I agree keeping things sanatised is important and I am working on getting a free fridge for temp control during fermentation. I have a Ranco temp controller I used for my salt water aquarium. AND...I plan to keg to keep things simple. I hate washing dishes and washing and sanitising dozens of bottles plus trying to get carbonation correct is more work.
baystatebrew
Well-Known Member
i disagree. yes, you need more equipment. but that is not "all" you need. experience and understanding the basics can't be replaced just by spending more on equipment or knowing other people that brew beer. their experience isn't yours and there is no replacement for personal experience. there is a difference between following a step by step brew process and actually understanding the intricacies of certain steps that you only learn through experience. starting simple makes it a hell of a lot easier to add a few additional advanced steps into the basic process.
With all due respect sir, I think every thing you have said is bulls^it. Any average IQ 7th grader with the proper equiptment could easily brew an AG beer.
jetmac
Well-Known Member
AG seems pretty simple. Boil some water, mix it with your grain, let it sit, drain it, add more HL, let let it sit again, drain it, boil the wort, chill it fast, pitch yeast, let it ferment, keg it. Of course I'm leaving out some steps but basically that's it. I expect the early batches to not turn out very good and that will be my experience.
KevinW
Well-Known Member
jetmac - a good reference book (like "How to Brew") and especially good software (like BeerSmith) plus some basic equipment will be a great start on your journey to complete and total brewing obsession. This forum and MOST of the brewers here are the best people when it comes to answers for you, sometimes you have to ignore some of the responses tough!
Good luck and keep on asking!!
Good luck and keep on asking!!
shelly_belly
Someday After A While
Good choice jetmac. If you've seen someone brew all grain then you know how simple it really is. And there's no reason your early batches can't be great - mine were. Good luck!
jetmac
Well-Known Member
dummkauf
Well-Known Member
not saying you couldn't do AG from the get go, but if you've got the equipment for AG, it may make your 1st brew day less stressful to brew up an extract batch. As far as quality, if you are doing full boils, which I am assuming you have the equipment for if you're planning on doing AG, there's not much difference between AG and Extract other than being able to control the malt profile better with AG.
Personally I brew both ways. I have a few recipes, especially IPA's where it's not about the malt but about the hops, that I always brew as extract, simply because it makes for a much shorter brew day. As far as quality, I've tried brewing the same recipes as AG and Extract and haven't noticed much difference. But if you're brewing a less hoppy beer that is supposed to have more malt flavors, AG is definatley the way to go.
My vote would be do 1 extract batch first, but that's just my $0.02. AG's not that much more difficult, but for a new brewer, it's a lot to try and remember.
Personally I brew both ways. I have a few recipes, especially IPA's where it's not about the malt but about the hops, that I always brew as extract, simply because it makes for a much shorter brew day. As far as quality, I've tried brewing the same recipes as AG and Extract and haven't noticed much difference. But if you're brewing a less hoppy beer that is supposed to have more malt flavors, AG is definatley the way to go.
My vote would be do 1 extract batch first, but that's just my $0.02. AG's not that much more difficult, but for a new brewer, it's a lot to try and remember.
dummkauf
Well-Known Member
oh, and either way, good luck and enjoy!!!
Yaeh, as papazian siad (not Revvy) RDWHAHB!
I did one extract batch when I first started brewing. My second batch was a PM. From #3 on I've brewed all grain. I started out with very little equipment, a turkey fryer stand, one kettle that was both my HLT and my boil kettle, and an Ice Cube ice chest with a homemade manifold for a mash tun.
I'm pretty much with sudbuster. I don't think it's rocket science. It's a fact that the more you do it the better you'll get, but I'd be willing to bet that if you read and prepare a bit, make sure you choose an appropriate process for the equipment you have, and then pay attention while brewing, you'll end up with a very satisfying brew. I did, and I barely understood what I was doing at the time.
Go for it. There's no way to gain experience but to just do it. Good luck.
I'm pretty much with sudbuster. I don't think it's rocket science. It's a fact that the more you do it the better you'll get, but I'd be willing to bet that if you read and prepare a bit, make sure you choose an appropriate process for the equipment you have, and then pay attention while brewing, you'll end up with a very satisfying brew. I did, and I barely understood what I was doing at the time.
Go for it. There's no way to gain experience but to just do it. Good luck.
LIES AND SLANDER!!
Hope to be making the AG jump here pretty soon. Got my holiday ale bubbling away as we speak, hoping to start of the new year with a grainological brew-ha-ha.
Now I just need to get another cooler w/ valve, larger kettle, probably another 2 cases of bottles, digi thermometer, etc etc etc...
It will all come with time, sir! enjoy the trip....LIES AND SLANDER!!
Hope to be making the AG jump here pretty soon. Got my holiday ale bubbling away as we speak, hoping to start of the new year with a grainological brew-ha-ha.
Now I just need to get another cooler w/ valve, larger kettle, probably another 2 cases of bottles, digi thermometer, etc etc etc...
Olddog
Well-Known Member
Temperature control is definitely important. I made the switch to all grain this summer and discovered the hard way that my thermometer was off on the first couple batches. Now that I got that fixed, I really enjoy AG brewing.
Although, this week I made an extract batch because I had an idle fermenter and didn't have time to do a normal batch.
Although, this week I made an extract batch because I had an idle fermenter and didn't have time to do a normal batch.
I don't see how getting the carbonation correct with AG is easier than with extract (unless you are kegging as well).
I hope you mean heat some water, rather than boil. Nothing wrong with boiling if you let it cool, but you don't want to use freshly boiling water for the mash.
IMO, AG is only slightly more difficult than extract (it's like the difference between making coffee with ground coffee rather than instant), but it does take a lot longer because of the time taken for the mash and sparge, and the fact that you will have to boil the full amount.
Before starting, I would make sure that you can boil the required volume of water. If you have a turkey fryer, that should be no problem. If you're heating on the kitchen stove, it could be a problem.
As you don't know what efficiency you will get, you may also want to get a pound or two of extract so that if your efficiency is low you can use that to bump up the OG if you feel the need.
Good luck,
-a.
TheDom
Well-Known Member
I really wish I had just gone straight to AG when I started out, but going straight to AG AND kegging? I'm jealous!
I know its already been said earlier, but brewing software makes life so much easier. I'm sure there's a way to figure out your strike water temp for your mash without the software, but Beersmith makes it so easy that I've never had to do it. I just plug in my recipe and equipment, and it gives me a temp to heat to.
Maybe it'd be helpful to post the equipment you have and plan on getting so members here who've been doing AG for a bit can give you some pointers?
Either way, good luck and have fun!
I know its already been said earlier, but brewing software makes life so much easier. I'm sure there's a way to figure out your strike water temp for your mash without the software, but Beersmith makes it so easy that I've never had to do it. I just plug in my recipe and equipment, and it gives me a temp to heat to.
Maybe it'd be helpful to post the equipment you have and plan on getting so members here who've been doing AG for a bit can give you some pointers?
Either way, good luck and have fun!
Very interesting! Since I am primarily a hophead I would be more than happy to stick with extract. I have a 40qt pot but on other advice I've been mostly boiling up 3 gal in order to more quickly cool the wort. I'm wondering about the effects of increased cooling time for the full boil .... but no matter... with winter just around the corner I will have tons of ice and snow before long.
dummkauf, have you tried the NB 3-hearted recipe? (instructions are posted on their website) Past week bottled the first of 2 batches... won't be long now....
SwampassJ
Well-Known Member
I jumped straight to all grain after doing an extract with the people at bxbeerdepot (basically they did it all and I took notes and watched.)
I suggest getting beersmith to calculate water temps/volumes needed for mash and sparge. My first 3 beers I flew by what the recipes on here called for and missed my temps because my cooler size, grain temp and I wasn't familiar with how much heat I would lose to the two.
Just four suggestions.
1. Campden your tap water otherwise you'll have chlorophenols
2. Mash temp
3. Ferment temps
4. After sparging and all good and boiling, stir the grain to cool it faster. Otherwise you'll melt the trash bag.
I suggest getting beersmith to calculate water temps/volumes needed for mash and sparge. My first 3 beers I flew by what the recipes on here called for and missed my temps because my cooler size, grain temp and I wasn't familiar with how much heat I would lose to the two.
Just four suggestions.
1. Campden your tap water otherwise you'll have chlorophenols
2. Mash temp
3. Ferment temps
4. After sparging and all good and boiling, stir the grain to cool it faster. Otherwise you'll melt the trash bag.
jetmac
Well-Known Member
This is why I hate trying to post in a forum rather than talking. What I mean is carbonating with bottles is probably harder to get the carbonation consistantly where I want it, over force carbonating a keg which is another reason not to bottle. Not AG is easier to carbonate than extract.
Ya, I was just trying to put it simply.
Good idea. I would add that prior to pitching my yeast?
jetmac
Well-Known Member
jetmac
Well-Known Member
Good insight.
Sort of like following a recipe when they tell you to cook something for a certain period of time but they don't know how big my chicken breast is, what temp it started at and maybe my oven temp is off 15 degrees. You need to cook to temp not time.
I have RO water system I was going to use for my fish tank.
flipfloptan
Well-Known Member
For what it is worth, I debated the same decision a couple of months ago. I decided on BIAB with no regrets.
As stated in an above post, getting water temp and efficiency correct is my biggest challenge. My first two batches I didn't use a hydrometer or any of the technical stuff just to concentrate on process. I didn't calculate efficiency. (Took the ingnorance is bliss road) I did keep the batch in fermenter for 3 weeks to insure complete fermentation. It still turned out as beer even without all the calculations.
Good luck
As stated in an above post, getting water temp and efficiency correct is my biggest challenge. My first two batches I didn't use a hydrometer or any of the technical stuff just to concentrate on process. I didn't calculate efficiency. (Took the ingnorance is bliss road) I did keep the batch in fermenter for 3 weeks to insure complete fermentation. It still turned out as beer even without all the calculations.
Good luck
Sorry, I missed the reference to kegging. I agree completely. Cleaning and sanitizing a keg is much easier and quicker than doing ~50 individual bottles. However, I usually carbonate the kegs naturally rather than force carbonate, and don't have any consistency problems.
I would add the DME (if required) to the last few minutes of the boil, but I know how much I am going to boil off, and use a refractometer to calculate the pre-boil SG, so I know how much would be required. For your first brew, you won't have that luxury as you won't know your boil off rate.
Take notes, and for subsequent brews you should have a pretty good idea.
I would cool the wort, take a gravity reading, andrack to the fermenter. If the gravity is low, then you could boil up some DME in a small amount of water for 10 minutes, then add that to the fermenter and stir it well before pitching the yeast. 1 lb DME added to a 5g batch should raise the gravity by about 9 points (i.e. 1.009).
-a.
