If you could brew for the first time all over again...

[crux]

... knowing what you know now, what would you do first?

I joined this site some months ago, in a fervor to start my own brew. But no. I can never take the easy or sensible route. "I'm going to start with an all-grain."

I got three books, read half way through How to Brew, bought a grain mill first of all things, and then became indecisive. What kind of kettle? Should I pay extra for a spout? A site glass? A thermometer? Do I get a bucket or a carboy? An immersion or counterflow chiller? When is the extra money worth it? When have I gone too far just for a first brew? I perused the FAQs and guides here and elsewhere, but couldn't make up my mind. Paralysis encroached, and my motivation was suddenly shot. Many months later, I have no signs of progress but a grain mill on my kitchen counter.

So, I ask you more experienced brewers, what would you have done for your first brew with the knowledge you have now? Any "upgrades" worth getting from the get-go? Would you keep it simple? I'm a true lover of beer, I love to experiment and fine-tune a recipe, and I've got a network of people that will critique my brews once I'm ready. I just need to get past my obsessive compulsive snobbishness and just get started already. Put me in my place!

 

[Oldbrew75]

I did the same thing, and finally said enough is enough I am getting in over my head, and finally just brewed a Extract Recipe. I was over complicating stuff my head was full of theories without some practical knowledge under my belt!

 

[Oldbrew75]

IMO I say go simple first who cares how it turns out we all have to start somewhere!

 

[SenorPepe]

Agreed. If you don't have the money/motivation to get a system together now, throw together an extract batch. Once you taste beer _you_ made I think you'll get back into it pretty quickly and start amassing equipment almost involuntarily.

 

[TopherM]

LOL....years from now, someone's going to ask you:

"If you could brew for the first time all over again knowing what you know now, what would you do first?"

And your answer is going to be:

"I wish my first purchase was NOT a grain mill!!"

Seriously, I'd venture to say only about 10-15% of the experienced brewers on the board own a grain mill. The online brew shops will mill for you, and most local brew supply shops have a mill you can use.

But I digress.......my serious advise is to buy the Northern Brewer starter kit with one of the extract kits. Skip on the secondary fermenter:

http://www.northernbrewer.com/brewing/starter-kits/basic-starter-kit-1.html

From there, you'll still need a thermometer, a kettle, STARSAN, and some bottles:

Bottles: http://www.northernbrewer.com/brewing/brewing-equipment/bottling/bottles/beer-bottles-12-oz.html

Bottle Caps: http://www.northernbrewer.com/brewi...tle-caps-closures/plain-gold-caps-144-ct.html

Thermometer: http://www.thermoworks.com/products/low_cost/6032.html

StarSan (get the biggest bottle, it'll last a year): http://www.northernbrewer.com/brewing/star-san.html

For the kettle, most everyone always wishes they got a pot that could do full-volume 5 gallon batches. I would recommend:

http://www.bayouclassicfryers.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=211

This pot can be had for around $80.00 if you shop around.

This pot is big enough that it can be used in an All-Grain BIAB or traditional all-grain setup in the future. You can also ADD a ball valve and sight glass in the future. I have a ball valve on mine, but don't really think a sight glass is worth it, as they are often difficult to keep clean.

That's about $250.00 to get started. I spend about $60.00 a month to brew about every other weekend, then every-so-often get an itch to buy a new piece of equipment or upgrade something. Once you get the basics down, I think your needs will naturally evolve and you'll have the knowledge to know the next steps you wanna take.

Hope that helps. This is exactly what I would do if I were just starting. Do 5-6 extract batches to get the system down, then if you want to go to all-grain, you can do BIAB just by getting some $4.00 paint strainer bags at Home Depot.

Good luck!

 

[BrewerinBR]

My first brew was in Dec 2010 a Mr beer kit that I screwed with the recipe and instructions and it was not drinkable. Batch 2 was a Spiced Black Lager all grain. A very good beer (not a true lager tho)... I would change nothing.... went small (3 gallon) and as cheap as I could... made my own mash tun from parts I had in the house, used kitchen pots and pans for heating water and purchased a boil kettle. I purchased a glass carboy and crushed grains online and followed the instructions in How to Brew ... I used that process and system to make 16 three gallon batches and each one better than the last ... then I went to 5 gallon batches in my brew room... a learning experience that continues and continues and ...
For all grain you need a way to heat water, a mash tun and a boil kettle... or use the Brew In A Bag Systems documented elsewhere in the forum... the thing is... just brew it. Dive in and have fun, and what ever method works best for you and helps you make great beer, then that is the best method for you! All are good and I have used many of the ideas and pointers and examples I have found here. Enjoy... and brew on my friend - and Welcome!

 

[crux]

Thanks for the tips. Keeping it simple is what I was leaning towards, and it seems I wasn't wrong. I'm keeping the grain mill though! And thanks for the specific suggestions and links, Topher.

I lied a little, though. I did make some strides in the last few months, which is amassing enough empty bottles (well, they're empty now, anyway) for a five gallon batch...

 

[stratslinger]

It helps to start small, yet plan for growth.

Starting with extract kits allows you to focus your purchases on those things that are critical to all forms of brewing: your fermenters, your packaging (be it bottling or kegging gear), cleaning and santizing solutions and/or devices , etc.

This way, you can start brewing now, and add pieces of equipment over time to build out your capacity and allow yourself to grow into things like all grain.

More to the point of the OP, if I could go back and tell myself one thing before I started my first batch, it'd be "make a checklist!!!!". On my first brew, I just went from the instructions listed in the kit coupled with the better advice on sites like this or in Palmer's book. Everything went fine, until I had transferred half my wort to my fermenter before realizing I had never sanitized the fermenter!!! Fortunately, the beer still came out just fine - but had I used the checklist I've since built up for myself, I could've spared myself some worrying!

 

[WestCoastHopper]

+1 on keeping it simple. I too decided to go all-grain off the bat, and also got stuck into the fancy equipment trap. Eventually I realized that I don’t need that much. Simple cooler mash tun, converted keg kettle for hot liquor, another one for boil kettle, a propane burner and a basic kit from my LHBS is all that was needed. Sight glasses, through wall thermometers and pumps are nice, but not necessary to start brewing.

I have three batches now under my belt, and each time I realized I need to adjust things on my system, once I have those basic things fixed I will start looking at upgrades. I say get in there, and see what you can do with whatever you have or can easily assemble. Work on your processes then work on the gear.

 

[JuanMoore]

I bought an $80 equipment kit and a $20 extract kit for my first batch, which was done on my stove using an enamel pot I already owned (partial boil). If I could do it over the only thing I would have done differently was have a system for fermentation temp control set up in advance. Keeping things relatively simple to start allowed me to learn more about the process so that I could make better and more informed choices about how I wanted to eventually set up my system. I only did two more extract batches before making the jump to all grain, which I once again did as simply as possible to start, (SP-10 burner, 60 qt stockpot, and converted cooler MLT). I continued to brew using that very simple AG set-up for nearly 2 years while I slowly gathered parts for and built the HERMS I currently use. Had I tried building or buying a complete brewing system with all sorts of features right away, I don't think I would have been nearly as happy with the end result as I am now. In short, keep it simple.

 

[rjsnau]

This is a hard question to answer since everyone has different areas where they would perfer to spend more to upgrade and others where they would perfer to save.

From my perspective, The upgrades I am happy I did or wish I had done earlier are:

1) a 10 gallon mash tun - Even if you think you are not going to do 10 gal batches or high gravity beers, at some point you may and will be glad to have it.

2) Turkey Fryer for full batches. - This falls under both categories. I wish I had gotten it earlier but I am glad I did not spend a bunch of money on an expensive pot and burner. Again, just me though.

3) IC - An immersion chiller is so much easier to use and quicker than an ice bath, especially in AZ. I am a big fan of KISS (Keep it Simple Stupid) and a counter flow chiller is too much work to me. Having to deal with all the hoses and trying to sanitize it. An IC you just put in the pot the last 15 min of the boil and at flameout you are all sanitized. Cleanup is very quick and easy too.

4) Temp controller/Fermenting fridge - The single best thing you can do for your beer is proper temp control. Again, in AZ this is a must. Not so important if you are in a region with lower temps.

5) Kegging equipment - A pretty big investment but worth it to not have to bottle. Plus even though I know it is mental, to me keg beer tastes better.

Things I am ok that I have not upgraded or would have been ok if I didn't:

1) Plastic fermemter - Eventually I want a SS conical but in the mean time I am perfectly happy with these over carboys. They are easier to clean and while some people worry about sanitation, I have never had a problem. (knock on wood). I just be careful not to scratch them and clean them well every time.

2) Flask - Not a huge purchase but a 5L flask is around $50. A 1 gallon (almost 4L) jug is $6. If using a stir plate you may have some problems with the curved bottom but people make them work. The only real advantage I see is you can boil the starter in a flask as they are heat resistant but I have two friends who have shattered several flasks on the stove anyways.

3) Expensive boil kettle. - As I mentioned above, to me it is not worth spending several hundreds of dollars on a boil kettle with valves and thermometer. The valve is just one more set of hoses, etc to worry about cleaning. I just dump it into the fermemter. If you really want to transfer it through a tube to leave the hot break behind, you can use a siphon anyways. A good trick I learned for estimating volumes in a boil kettle is get a big stir spoon, use a gallon jug to put a gallon of water in your pot. Place the spoon so it is touching the bottom and make an etch on the spoon. Repeat until you have 8 or so notches. Then when boiling just place the spoon in so it is touching the bottom and you can see how much liquid you have. Much cheaper than a site glass. A Turkey fryer with pot will run about $65 or less if you watch for a sale. A pot with all the bells will run $300+ and you still need a burner.

Overall I would recommend a basic starter kit which would be around $100 and then a turkey fryer for $65 and get started. Then upgrade the areas you want to.

Good Luck!

 

[hillhousesawdustco]

The one thing I wish that I had done was to just got ahead and get a pot big enough (8 or more gallons) to do a full volume 5gal boil without huge worry about boilovers. I started with a 5 gallon pot doing partial-volume boils, but I almost immediately wanted to jump to full volume, then all grain etc. When you want to upgrade, that 5 gallon pot isn't good for much besides making soup, in my opinion.

I also recommend starting with an extract + specialty grains kit- going through the process a time or two will help make everything in your books make so much more sense, and get you ready for how the mash works. I brew mostly all grain now, but occasionally brew an extract batch (lordy they're quick after doing 12 gallong all grain batches) and the beer is still delectable.

Best of luck!

 

[huge1s]

I am far from an experienced brewer.... so take what I say with a grain of salt.

Just buy a basic homebrew kit from one of the online homebrew shops. I purchased one from Midwest and it has everything I need to brew and bottle beer minus the boiling equipment. Order yourself an extract kit from the same place (at the same time will help you save on shipping costs). My setup was ~$100. After you do this, the only thing to figure out is how you are going to boil. I happened to have a lightly used turkey fryer that was easy to clean up. Problem solved. Your first brew day should focus on your process. There are more moving parts than you may think, but nothing too difficult with an extract batch and a little pre-planning.

I understand your desire to go all grain. I went all grain after my first extract batch. What you learn from the first extract batch will really help you in all grain. More variables, more moving parts, more things to control.... having gone through the basic process first will make all this easier.

As for an upgrade path, reading this forum will probably give you a good idea on things to focus on (order of which is depatable). For me, it goes: Starters (first because it is easy to start doing this for very little cost), Temperature Control (bigger investment, but high payoff), Yeast Banking (keeping costs down). Those are all second to process control.

I do have one question for you though....

If you have never brewed before, how/why are you experimenting with and formulating your own recipes? This doesn't seem to jive.

 

[eastoak]

i might be in the minority here but i don't think extract brewing really prepares you for all grain brewing in the same way that a 125cc motorcycle prepares you for a 750cc motorcycle. the whole mash process has many variables that do no exist in extract brewing;ph considerations, stuck mashes, tannins and so on. nothing wrong with starting out with extract but going all grain is a new beginning in my view.

 

[huge1s]

i might be in the minority here but i don't think extract brewing really prepares you for all grain brewing in the same way that a 125cc motorcycle prepares you for a 750cc motorcycle. the whole mash process has many variables that do no exist in extract brewing;ph considerations, stuck mashes, tannins and so on. nothing wrong with starting out with extract but going all grain is a new beginning in my view.

I respectfully disagree. Yes, AG has more complexity but there is something to be said for having the basics figured out, so you can focus on your added variables. Extract and AG share a lot of the same process. Simple stuff like how to transfer wort from boil kettle to fermenter, how to cool the wort down, how long it takes to get your water to boil with your setup, how much you boil off in an hour, can you carry 5 gallons of wort or do you need some help.... all things that will give you a leg up when you do your first AG batch. Maybe it has just been my experience... but I don't think AG has to be all that complicated. Sure, you can really start delving into complication with water chemistry, step mashes etc... but you don't have to do all that on your first AG.

 

[LKABrewer]

i might be in the minority here but i don't think extract brewing really prepares you for all grain brewing in the same way that a 125cc motorcycle prepares you for a 750cc motorcycle. the whole mash process has many variables that do no exist in extract brewing;ph considerations, stuck mashes, tannins and so on. nothing wrong with starting out with extract but going all grain is a new beginning in my view.

Extract brewing will allow you to practice your sanitization and cold side technique without worrying about all of the other variables that all-grain adds. Once you begin making good beer with extract, then you can go to all-grain to perfect your process. However, if you can not make a good extract batch then there is no use going to all-grain.
The other problem is that if you make a bad all-grain batch, it is much harder to determine what went wrong than with an extract batch.
+1 to getting fermentation temperatures down first. I wish I had done this when I started, I wasted over a year with so-so batches before getting a chest freezer with a controller; this is the single greatest thing you can do for your beer.

 

[KevinW]

If I would do anything different I would have made a bigger IC and bought a 10gal container instead of 5gal for my mash tun. I would have also purchased Beersmith right off the bat!

If you are handy then by all means make or convert all the equipment that you can. It can be cheaper and there is a great sense of pride knowing you've made your own brew using equipmnet you've made!

My 2 cents!

 

[huge1s]

If I would do anything different I would have made a bigger IC and bought a 10gal container instead of 5gal for my mash tun. I would have also purchased Beersmith right off the bat!

If you are handy then by all means make or convert all the equipment that you can. It can be cheaper and there is a great sense of pride knowing you've made your own brew using equipmnet you've made!

My 2 cents!

I agree with getting a bigger container. I don't plan on going to 10g batches anytime soon (if ever), but there are a couple bigger beers that I want to make that are going to be really tight (if not impossible) unless I want to switch up my process (I batch sparge). I suppose I shouldn't complain because the cooler was free

 

[eastoak]

if you can not make a good extract batch then there is no use going to all-grain.
The other problem is that if you make a bad all-grain batch, it is much harder to determine what went wrong than with an extract batch.

i respectfully disagree with both of these points. all grain and extract are two different ways of making beer. i don't see extract as a step to all grain or the other way around. if you start will all grain right away you will eventually get it right and if you try an extract batch it will not be easier because you have to learn a new process that has different pitfalls. sanitation, chilling, fermentation control and so on apply to both and you are made aware of them regardless of which method you choose.
i guess i'm more for encouraging someone to go all grain right away if they want to because there really is no reason they shouldn't, in my view.

 

[LKABrewer]

i respectfully disagree with both of these points. all grain and extract are two different ways of making beer. i don't see extract as a step to all grain or the other way around. if you start will all grain right away you will eventually get it right and if you try an extract batch it will not be easier because you have to learn a new process that has different pitfalls. sanitation, chilling, fermentation control and so on apply to both and you are made aware of them regardless of which method you choose.
i guess i'm more for encouraging someone to go all grain right away if they want to because there really is no reason they shouldn't, in my view.

All grain and extract are two different ways to make wort, not beer. Sanitation, chilling, yeast pitching rates, fermentation temperatures, racking techniques, bottle carbonation and kegging can all be perfected using extract, and will all be the same once you go to all grain. How can you say that extract is not a step toward all grain? Do you not agree that is is a LOT easier to find out where you went wrong with extract than it is with all grain?

I have no problem with someone going straight to all grain if they wish, but I would urge a new brewer to get comfortable with the process of extract brewing before adding the complexity of all grain.

 

[beergolf]

If I knew then what I kow now I would do a few things differently.

Make a starter.

Temp control. I was lucky and started brewing in the winter so my basement was pretty much a constant mid to low 60's

Give the brew plenty of time. First one I did rack to secondary after a week. Knowing what I know now I would have just left it in the primary for 3 weeks.

My first brews were pretty good but probably could have been better.

 

[TheSlash]

Extract brewing will allow you to practice your sanitization and cold side technique without worrying about all of the other variables that all-grain adds. Once you begin making good beer with extract, then you can go to all-grain to perfect your process. However, if you can not make a good extract batch then there is no use going to all-grain.
The other problem is that if you make a bad all-grain batch, it is much harder to determine what went wrong than with an extract batch.
+1 to getting fermentation temperatures down first. I wish I had done this when I started, I wasted over a year with so-so batches before getting a chest freezer with a controller; this is the single greatest thing you can do for your beer.

Amazing info.. Trouble shoot your off flavors and technique with extract. Less variables. If you can't make good extract batches, you def cannot make good all grain, since it only adds to the list of things that can go wrong.

 

[motleybrews]

i'd make an immersion chiller. just made mine for right around $30.

also, its not necessary, but if you are doing AG, i would HIGHLY recommend the Blichmann BrewMometer.

keeps you from having to keep track of all the different temps. Just installed mine on my kettle, and will be using it soon.

sorry about the big pic

 

[motleybrews]

I would recommend getting a bottle tree and vinator. I have an 81 bottle version. The vinator is up to this point the best money I've spent. The autosiphon is a very close second.

I've spent a bunch of money on equipment, and I'm almost to the point where I'm happy...just have to finish putting my mash tun together, and i'm set. I still have a lot of money that is going to be spent, but that will be upgrades over time (brewrig, keg setup, conicals, big SS brewpot, etc). As stated above, I made a wort chiller for right around $30, my 10g mash tun was made for right around $60, i've got 6 total fermentors (5 6.5g ale pails, and 1 5g carboy), a tap a draft (save your money...if you want to go this route, buy 3 miller lite homedraft systems, and have 3 taps instead of 1 for the same $60). Turkey fryer with aluminum pot was $60.

I am about to jump to AG. Just brewed my 10th batch this past weekend, and I feel comfortable with where I'm at. I'm producing good beer, my sanitation is on point, and doing those 10 batches has allowed me a lot of time to read up on stuff. When I take the plunge to AG next month, I will have watched and or read hundreds of articles, threads, how-tos and videos. If I'd jumped right into AG, i wouldn't have had that opportunity, and i would have been flying by the seat of my pants. So from one person about to go AG to another, I'd really recommend getting some of the processes down with extract first, then making the jump. It will also allow you more time to get the funds in order and piece together your AG setup. Plus, starting simple (basic setup, and using kits) will also let you see if this is something you enjoy. Stressing out about if your strike water is the appropriate temp, what happens if you have a stuck sparge, are you going to have a boilover, etc, could potentially turn you off brewing. With a kit, its very hard to mess up, and will allow you to get sanitation, transferring, cooling, and everything else down pat in a much less stressful environment.

happy brewing

 

[crux]

Another big thanks for all the replies.

I'll never know if the catalyst was me taking the time to post this and put it back to the top of my thoughts, or all the helpful advise here, but I've finally started acquiring what I need for my first brew.

I agree with the train of thought that says go simple and go through the process with an extract, so I'm starting with an extract kit. I plan to go into all-grain pretty quickly nonetheless, but I figure I may as well learn to swim before I jump in the deep end. I finally bought a kettle (turkey fryer), a starter kit, an outdoor burner because I have a downdraft vent in my kitchen, a thermometer, Star San, a cheap immersion chiller, and I actually like the advice of a bottle tree and a Vinator. It's a nice way to store my bottles too.

There's some extravagances there, but hopefully it should put me in a nice place where I can start in a comfortable place and add what I need to when I need to. I'll make the mash tun myself. I have a spare refrigerator in the basement and I'm remodeling my basement in the next few weeks, so I'm going to see if I can figure out a way to get proper ventilation and look into a simple brew room in the future. I'll modify the fridge for temperature control eventually regardless, though I'll ease into that. The fridge is in the same room as a utility sink, and with a remodeling happening anyway, it's too good an opportunity not to look into it.

 

[motleybrews]

looks like you're well on your way.

The first brew, bottling was a PAIN. not so much the actual bottling process as i had read Revvy's thread (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/bottling-tips-homebrewer-94812/) and that made life a lot easier, but it was the cleaning, sanitation, and rinsing that sucked so bad. now with the vinator, it takes about 15 minutes to sanitize 2.5 cases. hands down best money i've spent

 

[iaefebs]

With my first brew, I didn't know anything except what was on the Mr. beer instruction sheet. I wouldn't change a thing. Fast forward 6 years, Sunday I had an excellent day, I set up the keggles, filled them with my water profile, milled my grain, hit my mash temp hit my preboil gravity, had a nice boil, hit my OG, chilled to yeast pitch temp, added my yeast that was washed from previous batches, ferment is going well, I don't need the ferment chamber because the basement temp is perfect, (it's dropped 6 degrees in the last month ) Once again I wouldn't change a thing. It's a natural progression of experience. I am glad I didn't try to do it all at once.