If a full boil is possible, DO IT!!

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

so...what's the reason for this? i often do partial boils (with my partial mash batches, usually) and never get the twang. i have had the twang with full extract brews, tho.

what's the science??? sorry, i'm forever the skeptic

.....And I'm forever the *******! I have no idea about the science, but one terrific brew after 14 good ones with only one major difference in the method, well, that can't just be coincidence, can it?

Of particular note to me was that I had done three of te exact same brews as a partial boil before this one, otherwise I would be more prone to put it down as dumb luck.

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

Why is it so dark?

Bad lighting for the pics. It is on the dark side, but nothing like in those pics.

 

[DeathBrewer]

.....And I'm forever the *******! I have no idea about the science, but one terrific brew after 14 good ones with only one major difference in the method, well, that can't just be coincidence, can it?

Of particular note to me was that I had done three of te exact same brews as a partial boil before this one, otherwise I would be more prone to put it down as dumb luck.

are you going to let me remain the brooding skeptic????

somebody chime in...there has to be something to this.

i mean, i want to believe this crazy gnome...

 

[MoRoToRiUm]

i mean, i want to believe this crazy gnome...

You want to believe a gnome!? They are nothing but tricksters!

 

[jay672]

Who knew you could get Angelina Jolie just from using a full boil

 

[farmbrewernw]

Congrats on making your first brew!! I didn't even know you knew how to make beer.
EDIT: Upon further contemplation it had become evident to me that you probably got those pictures from someone else's gallery.

 

[jpmcd03]

so I am intrigued by all this...I was just talking in another forum about how my latest batch (an Irish Red) turned out pretty good as usual, but still lacking a good thick head, with good retention. I would like to try a full, or at least larger boil (space/equip constraints) maybe around 4 gallon boil for a 5 gallon batch. Is it necessary to adjust ingredients for this? Use more hops, etc? Seems all the same to me.

 

[goodbyebluesky82]

so I am intrigued by all this...I was just talking in another forum about how my latest batch (an Irish Red) turned out pretty good as usual, but still lacking a good thick head, with good retention. I would like to try a full, or at least larger boil (space/equip constraints) maybe around 4 gallon boil for a 5 gallon batch. Is it necessary to adjust ingredients for this? Use more hops, etc? Seems all the same to me.

If anything you would use less hops by boiling more liquid. The Beer Recipator - Home can help you see what IBU difference it will make and let you adjust.

 

[yeoldebrewer]

Are you steeping nipples again, LG?

Seriously, congratulations and I don't doubt your findings. But a cause and effect explanation would help us keep the mechanism consistent.

 

[goplayoutside]

+1 to the big boil!

I just had a beer come out AMAZING after a bunch of good but not mind-blowing extract brews too, also after switching to a bigger boil (pulled of 2.75 gal for a 3 gal batch). I also did a late extract addition... (I was really pissed about the sweet/twangness and was taking no chances). And although I lack the... ummm... creative eloquence (I suppose that's what you'd have to call it) to invoke Ms. Jolie's anatomy, I agree that the difference is PHENOMENAL.

I'm glad to see you making some noise about this!

 

[goplayoutside]

And for the folks who are stuck in a 5 gal kettle I have two recommendations:

1) Do 3 gallon batches. You get to brew more often and improve your recipes faster, and you can do a full boil.

2) If you must do a 5 gal batch in a small kettle, do a late extract addition with 2/3 or
3/4 of your extract. As in, just but in a little of your extract at the start, and then add the rest five or ten minutes before boil end (just enough to get it sterilized). This will help avoid caramelization in the partial boil and will increase your hop utilization. I don't know of a rule-of-thumb for adjusting hop quantities in extract late brewing, but beersmith does it for you (and a whole lot more!) and is cheaper than a new kettle...

 

[McPintley]

to qoute Brew Your Own- Hop Lovers Guide
" The amount of bitterness in extract brewing is primarily limited by two factors. The first is the inherent solubility limit of bittering compounds in wort- in short, there is only so much bitterness that can be boiled out of the hops. Between 100-120 IBUs....the solubility of isomertized alpha acids (hoppy stuff) also varies with density of the wort.

For example, if you boiled 2.5 gallons of wort at an SG of1.048 and 2.5 gallons of wort at 1.096, and added the same amount of hops to each, the weaker wort would yield a more bitter beer. Given that most stovetop brewers usually brew a concentrated wort, wort density frequently limits the amount of bitterness in their beer.

The second variable influencing bitterness in extract brewing is dilution. When stovetop brewers are done boiling their wort they add water in the fermenter. The water not not only dilutes the sugars in the wort, but the alpha acids as well. So, if you want to brew 5G of beer with 30 IBUs and your posted boil volume is 2.5G, your boiled wort will need to measure 60 IBUs."

There's your science. This explains why Gnomes like Extra Special BITTERS that are brewed full boil.

If you would like to know more head down to LHBS and pickup a copy b/c I have exceeded my WPD (words per day) of typing and probably broke every rule ever written about parenthetical documentation!

 

[MoRoToRiUm]

Congrats on making your first brew!! I didn't even know you knew how to make beer.
EDIT: Upon further contemplation it had become evident to me that you probably got those pictures from someone else's gallery.

Here I thought it was the beer left over in the keg from when he made his keggle!

Seriously though, congrats and thanks for posting LG- You're right, until now I've always seen it as 'preferred', with not all of the benefits being as noticeable as yours.

Side note, now I really want more space and equipment...

 

[rico567]

When I started brewing, about a year ago, I was fortunate in that I started off with a 30 qt. stainless brewpot. I was advised that full boils were desirable by my son, who got me started in this pastime. I have no reason to regret this decision, as all the beers (extract only) I have brewed have been great.

As to the heat issue, my rather anemic propane cooktop will do a bubbling boil -barely- on a full 5 gallons. However, I wanted the water to come to a boil quicker, and also to recover faster from the late additions that I do. After reading a few threads on various forums, I decided to insulate my brewpot. I used this material from J.C. Whitney:

Heat/Sound Insulation : JC Whitney: Auto Parts & Accessories

I also purchased the adhesive and tape to fasten the insulation to my pot, and it all worked well. My pot now produces a better boil, comes up to a boil more quickly, and recovers from adding a bunch of LME late much faster.

NB: It's obvious, but I will note for the sake of form that you cannot use the insulation referred to above if you immerse your brewpot to chill it. Immersion chillers only.

 

[Pogo]

I'm missing something here.

I'm doing my first no-boil kit now...but as I'm studying up on all of the different processes for doing all types of brewing, how can one do a full boil without an IC?

For a five gallon batch, if you do a full five gallon boil, how can you then add 'clean ice' directly to the wort, to chill, without ending up with a diluted, greater than five gallon, batch?

Hummmm...?

Pogo

 

[MoRoToRiUm]

Ice bath- Did first brew that way. It's funny watching your brew kettle float around in the bathtub full of ice water, but I like my IC.

 

[Willy Boner]

Angelina's nipples.............ice bath..........I GOTTA GO NOW!

 

[smizak]

are you going to let me remain the brooding skeptic????

somebody chime in...there has to be something to this.

i mean, i want to believe this crazy gnome...

I don't know exactly, but I guarantee it has something to do with the ratio of water to hops/extract/sugar. I do know that boiling thick sugary wort reduces your hop utilization, and it probably affects the way the proteins and sugar coagulate/react compared to a full boil. Also, I could never really get a rolling boil on the stove compared to my SQ-14 and 10 gal pot. That probably has an effect too.

 

[DeathBrewer]

i think rolling boil definitely has something to do with it, and perhaps the lighter concentration helps the wort work its magic. late extract additions could still allow you to do all those things with a partial boil, however.

i usually do a partial boil with my dunkelweizens and they come out perfect. i like the Wheat LME over the DME, too. i think it's because of the carmelization that occurs...it may have its place in some beers.

makes me want to do a side-by-side comparison...

 

[MikeG]

I used the exact same method for this brew as always except I did a full boil. I cooled the wort by throwing a bunch of clean ice directly into the wort. I Had it cooled in about twenty minutes.

I'm confused about this part. If you're doing a full boil then you should end up with 5GAL at the end of an hour boil. What you are adding is not ice that melts into the wort but rather in a container, such as a gallon jug?

 

[DeathBrewer]

he probably started with 5 gallons...usually when i hear "partial boil" i'm assuming they are starting with about 3 gallons.

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

Well, I started with just under 6 gallons, but being in the cold garage for the first time, I underestimated the evaporation. After the boil I still needed to top up a bit, so I used the ice for cooling. I now have a lid for that keggle to keep the evaporation rate down.

 

[DeathBrewer]

don't cover your boil, silly...just adjust your water preboil

(topping off is ok, too.)

 

[conpewter]

Covering the boil pot allows the DMS monster to rear it's ugly head of Dimethyl sulfides. Thus making your beer taste slightly of creamed corn.

Dimethyl sulfides - Home Brewing Wiki

Although I wonder how much this really affects extract brewers since the wort is pre-boiled and may have driven off most of the SMM (precursor to DMS)

 

[Chriso]

Oi've done abouut feeftayn ex'trakt brauws thees yeer. All wif 'a tree gollon boyl. Oi've always been playsed wif da brows but dere was aw'ways a steeky, n' somtoymes twangee tayste dat stopped theyse brauws bee'n som' spayshel.

All right, since it was deemed that OB's translation was too Australian and not British enough, I'll take a crack at translating it instead!

"I've cocked abot tin an' fife of the sticky can to the bolly dodg'r infe pas' caler yea. Alls wiv' a levn'anhaf li'r boi. I pas' ha'pissed 'n grin'd wit' a smile on m'tooker wi' th' pine's but der' twang an' rang an' some kin' sicky 'ase 'o dem done ri'e ma'e them a 'alf-pine of pissa bi'er wivout a s'iny gol' s'ar on d'op of 'ems."

 

[shecky]

All right, since it was deemed that OB's translation was too Australian and not British enough, I'll take a crack at translating it instead!

"I've cocked abot tin an' fife of the sticky can to the bolly dodg'r infe pas' caler yea. Alls wiv' a levn'anhaf li'r boi. I pas' ha'pissed 'n grin'd wit' a smile on m'tooker wi' th' pine's but der' twang an' rang an' some kin' sicky 'ase 'o dem done ri'e ma'e them a 'alf-pine of pissa bi'er wivout a s'iny gol' s'ar on d'op of 'ems."

Much better. I can't understand that at all.

 

[Dloucks]

I read this thread today as I was preparing to purchase ingredients for a nut brown, and though maybe I should go ahead and splurge on a bigger pot. While searching Northern Brewers economy pots I noticed that the one they are selling for "full 5 gallon boils" was listed as 30 quarts (7.5g). I got to thinking about this and I went out and grabbed the Aluminum pot that I had sitting in the garage (never been used) and sure enough 7.5 gallons.

HAPPY DAY! So I spent the extra "splurge money" on a ESB extract kit as well. This will also accelerate my jump to all grain. it's like christmas in november!

 

[MikeG]

I brewed last Sun with an extract recipe designed for a full boil. I put 5 gal in my 30qt pot and got it to boiling. (I added 4 gal to my 1 gal steeped grain wort). I don't think I can add another gal to that, 5 was a lesson in fine tuning the flame to prevent boil over.

To cool it I put it in the sink and did two tap water cold baths that got the temp down to 110F or so. I then proceeded to use an ice bath and added a 1 gal of spring water that was in the freezer for about 4 hours. Part of the water had frozen so I cut the top off to get the ice out. That was able to get the temp down to 70 to pitch the yeast. I think it took about 30-40 min to cool.

I didn't exactly measure before adding the cold/frozen 1 gal jug directly to the wort but my fermenting bucked ended up with about 5.5 gal so I hooked a blow off tube just in case. My Monday I had lots of CO2 activity and by Tuesday morning it was just about done.

Give me a few weeks after I keg and I'll try to give some feedback on how it turns out.

 

[JacktheKnife]

Gentlemen,

I used two '2.5 gallon' boil pots and divided the wort in two,
50/50. I filled the primary with a little store bought water but the wort was mostly a full boil.
Call it a 'dern near' full boil.
It doesn't take much more propane than boiling a 5 gallon
pot and it tasted noticably better than my other batches.
Even though it was only a week old,
{I was reracking and tried a gallon.}
I will always split the boil in two pots from now on.

Good idea,
thanks.

Now what about covering ones brew pot?
I keep the lid cocked where steam can get out the side.
Not all the way down where no steam can escape.

But is this bad?


J. Winters von Knife

 

[DeathBrewer]

don't cover your pot. you want as much crap to boil off as possible and if you leave the lid on, a lot of it will be kept back by the lid.

 

[Yooper]

Now what about covering ones brew pot?
I keep the lid cocked where steam can get out the side.
Not all the way down where no steam can escape.

But is this bad?


J. Winters von Knife

I think it's ok to cover it to bring it to a boil, but once it's boiling it's best to leave it off if you can. It should be ok with extract brewing (since it's already been boiled in the processing), but it's said that allowing the steam to escape facilitates the removal of compounds like DMS that can cause off-flavors in your beer.

 

[JacktheKnife]

YooperBrew,

Very valuable information, and thanks.
I skim the brown foam off,
and just learned that a year or so ago.
And the, not 'full boil' but the 'double boil'.
ie. two brew pots and boiling about a '4 gallon wort'.
A 'dern near full boil',
how about that one?
I have only done a 'dern near full boil' once!

But 'the 'leaving off of the brew pot lid during the boil' ...
idea!
Wow,
my brew is getting better and better as we talk.
Its already pretty good,

I guess improvment of ones homebrew
can go on forever.



Thank you
J. Knife

 

[ThreeSheets]

So on the topic of "double boil" (two 2.5 gal batches) I'm trying to understand this,

So basically I would have two worts boiling at the same time, and add hops and the extract to each. What about the quantities? Do I split those in half? Lets say that the recipe for a 5 gallon batch includes:

8lbs of extract
2oz of hops

So then for each 2.5 gal wort would I add 4lbs of extract and 1oz of hops? And then combine the two worts after cooling them separately making a 5 gallon batch?

Is this correct? I don't have alot of knowledge on IBUs and all that other stuff to know if this will get the same effect of a full boil with everything in one pot.

 

[DeathBrewer]

uh...are you making two 2.5 gallon batches or just splitting one 5 gallon batch for the boil?

if you are just splitting between two pots for the boil, split your hops accordingly.

for instance. i split this RIS 08/08/08 into 3 pots. one with 4 gallons and two with 2 gallons.

i had a hop addition of 0.8 ounces. i put 0.4 ounces into the 4 gallon and 0.2 ounces into each of the 2 gallons. make sense?

 

[ThreeSheets]

uh...are you making two 2.5 gallon batches or just splitting one 5 gallon batch for the boil?

I would be splitting the 5 gallon batch into two. I'm planning on doing a brew here soon and don't have the money to get larger pot and all the other things that follow like a propane burner and wort chiller. I do have two 20qt pots and will be doing this on my stovetop with ice baths to chill. Its probably going to be more work keeping track of two warts but I'm willing to do it if it will make the end result better.

So it sounds like I have it right then, just split the original 5 gallon recipe into two equally.

 

[Ego Archive]

Covering the boil pot allows the DMS monster to rear it's ugly head of Dimethyl sulfides. Thus making your beer taste slightly of creamed corn.

Dimethyl sulfides - Home Brewing Wiki

Although I wonder how much this really affects extract brewers since the wort is pre-boiled and may have driven off most of the SMM (precursor to DMS)

That's a great idea for my "Creamed Corn" Barleywine, thanks!

But in seriousness, thanks for the reminder, I might scale my next batch down to 3 gallons, and see what comes of it.

 

[williec30]

so if i am stuck in a 5 gallon for now and want to try the 2.5 / 2.5 gallon split boil, tell me more about the steeping part. am i steeping and then transferring some of that to the other pot, adding water to make 2.5 in each and then continue on?

 

[Kilgore_Trout]

so if i am stuck in a 5 gallon for now and want to try the 2.5 / 2.5 gallon split boil, tell me more about the steeping part. am i steeping and then transferring some of that to the other pot, adding water to make 2.5 in each and then continue on?

That would work.

Or you could do two steeps.

Or you could just steep in one pot and leave the other alone.

As long as you mix it well as it goes into the fermenter it shouldn't matter.

 

[wildwest450]

Exactly how long did it take you to figure out there was a top half to this forum??

 

[Dloucks]

Just did my first batch of full boil. In fact it was a batch of firsts for me. My first liquid yeast (wyeast smack pack) my first full boil. My first batch with a functionining wort chiller (wow did that thing take some time off my night)!


Couple things didn't go as well as planned. The chiller sprung a minute leak (tiny spray stream coming from one of the hose clamps). I think most of the water went over/out of the kettle but I can't be 100% sure. And at one point I had to reach into the wort to get restart the siphon to transfer from kettle to carboy (my darned funnel turned out to be too small).

All-in-all it was a more pleasant experience than my last two batches, and thanks to prep early in the day and the wort chiller it was a much faster process. Hopefully the result is a similar experience.