Ideal PH for each style

[mrdauber64]

Is there a list anywhere that gives the ideal mash PH for each style? I know that for West Coast IPA's and Pilsners that the target should be 5.2(crisp and dry) and for sweet stouts(full and sweet) it should be around 5.5. But where would something like an Oktoberfest or red ale fit?



I'm just now starting to dabble in water chemistry using Bru Water and I always struggle with where to set my PH.



Thank you!

 

[McKnuckle]

If you are referencing room temp mash pH, try the narrower range of 5.4 (light and crisp) to 5.5 (dark and malty). At least that is what I've landed on after some experimentation, and according to my palate. I could probably push it higher for the heaviest beers, but haven't tried yet.

 

[mrdauber64]

If you are referencing room temp mash pH, try the narrower range of 5.4 (light and crisp) to 5.5 (dark and malty). At least that is what I've landed on after some experimentation, and according to my palate. I could probably push it higher for the heaviest beers, but haven't tried yet.

Yes, I'm talking about room mash temperature, specifically the one that is used in the Brun Water spreadsheet when building your water.

From what I've read the range of conversion is actually 5.1 - 5.8, but the recommended is more like 5.2 - 5.6 depending on what style you are brewing. I guess I was just wondering if there is any documentation out there that lays out the recommended PH for each style.

 

[ajdelange]

Recommended by whom? There are many that will tell you that stouts should be mashed at the higher end of the pH range. I don't agree. Are you going to accept my recommendation because I have a lot of likes on HBT? Or are you going to accept the recommendation of the others because there are a lot of them? The answer should be that you will do neither but instead brew several stouts at different levels of mash pH and see which you (and your 'customers') like best.

 

[mrdauber64]

Recommended by whom? There are many that will tell you that stouts should be mashed at the higher end of the pH range. I don't agree. Are you going to accept my recommendation because I have a lot of likes on HBT? Or are you going to accept the recommendation of the others because there are a lot of them? The answer should be that you will do neither but instead brew several stouts at different levels of mash pH and see which you (and your 'customers') like best.

Ok, that's fair. I get the whole, it's your beer, brew it how you like sentiment. That is how I brew most of my beers anway. I've always wondered if there was a starting point so that I get a good base line without having to brew the same beer over and over again to "dial it in". There are too many recipes and styles to try and not enough time for that!

Also I guess I was looking more at the BJCP styles. You know, they tell you that the OG needs to be in a specific range, the IBU's too, along with other factors. I figured that along with those type of specifications that someone, somewhere, probably factored in ideal mash PH for BJCP style guideline beers. Would a Bo-Pils with a lower PH score higher than a Bo-Pils mashed at a higher PH? Same for an Oatmeal stout and so on.....

 

[McKnuckle]

In my mind, mash pH has two factors: Conversion and flavor. The first is practical and the second is subjective.

There's a recommended general range for conversion to work efficiently, and yet inside that wider range, I believe flavor is dialed in within a smaller band. That's why 5.2-5.6 might be an entirely acceptable range for mashing efficiently, but the pH affects the final beer's flavor in a big way, so those four tenths are significant. A 5.2 stout is going to potentially be sharp and high-toned. A 5.6 stout will be round and full. I'm avoiding using the word "acidic," but frankly, that's how I perceive the lower pH values in the final product.

There is science to this of course, but I focus more on the sensory empiricism gained from brewing my first stouts at 5.2-3 and thinking, ack, this is not what I was going for. Then brewing them again around 5.5 and thinking they are smooth and terrific. A crisp pale ale can and possibly should go lower. For my palate, I've learned that I just don't love sharpness in my beers. Maybe 5.3 would work great in a pale ale for many people, but I prefer it around 5.4 or 5.45 because it seems to drink fuller and maltier at that pH.

Since you're focusing on styles, just consider if you want the style to feel full or bright on your tongue. It should be somewhat intuitive, especially since it's related to other brewing choices such as hops and mineral additions.

 

[RTL]

I can't remember which podcast it was but I was listening to one and the brewmaster of some well known brewery said they check/adjust mash pH based on their target OG/FG. Then they check the pre-boil pH and adjust as necessary to target a specific post boil pH. Then they check the final beer post fermentation and see if that is what they expect/desire. So this rabbit hole can get pretty deep.

It seems to me the biggest impact is going to be efficiency and conversion, when it comes to mash pH. Whether you target a dry beer or malty beer will likely have more final flavor impact than a pH difference of 0.1. I could be wrong there however I haven't actually tested it in the mash, but your mash pH range will be very tight and what you and the yeast do after that can vary it quite a bit. I would start by brewing one beer with a traditional mash pH (like your stout at 5.4 or 5.5), then take the final beer and adjust it up or down in small increments and see how the flavor changes.

I had to do something similar with my first parti-gyle batch because the final second gyle beer tasted too flabby. I adjusted the pH with lactic acid slowly until it tasted how I wanted.

To answer your original question I personally am not aware of any such guidelines. I know there are guidelines for Berliner Weisse but they are post mash guidelines. I think if someone were to develop such a list it would be based on final beer pH, not mash pH, since final beer pH can be varied a lot more without affecting your brewhouse performance.