I want to brew a massive IIPA Sunday...

[lastsecondapex]

You’re only going to get about 100 IBU’s to go isomerize into the wort so anything more is just a waste of hops and will do nothing else except add a rank vegetal taste to your beer…

I disagree with this theory... Of course, the law of diminishing returns comes into play, but I've had 100 ibu beers and I've had Mikkeller's 1000 ibu and there's a noticeable, non-vegetal difference. The hop bitterness is so enjoyably intense that you can taste it on your palate for a full 15 minutes after emptying the glass.

That being said, I've been positive PROP tested and I'm a supertaster. I don't know if that makes any difference, but contrary to most supertasters, I love bitterness... (underripened fruit, outrageous ipa's, fresh white grapefruit, passionfruit, etc)

 

[Irrenarzt]

2-row is cheap.

I agree with that grain bill now. Orange blossom honey at flameout for a hint of that sweet sipping summertime goodness you are after...

 

[lastsecondapex]

2-row is cheap.

I agree with that grain bill now. Orange blossom honey at flameout for a hint of that sweet sipping summertime goodness you are after...

Alright, sounds good. I can get Orange Blossum pretty cheap here from a local keeper

 

[lastsecondapex]

Edited the recipe... Adding 4 oz Citra @ 15 mins.

 

[NyPDFustercluck]

If you haven't picked out your yeast yet, I'd really recommend the us-05. I did the IIPA "Hop Hammer" from brewing classic styles recently (16oz hops/5 gal) and it finished under 1.01 all the way from 1.087. I used two packets of yeast, and there was a pound something of dextrose, boy that stuff really helps a beer attenuate. Good luck with this one!

 

[Irrenarzt]

Alright, sounds good. I can get Orange Blossum pretty cheap here from a local keeper

Just be sure to add it late, after flameout if possible. this way you'll get some of the notes in the final fermented beer. If you boil it, it'll just all be converted to sugar. Not that that's a bad thing but why not have some honey notes to meld in with the huge hop bill?

 

[lastsecondapex]

If you haven't picked out your yeast yet, I'd really recommend the us-05. I did the IIPA "Hop Hammer" from brewing classic styles recently (16oz hops/5 gal) and it finished under 1.01 all the way from 1.087. I used two packets of yeast, and there was a pound something of dextrose, boy that stuff really helps a beer attenuate. Good luck with this one!

Bought US-05 today, first time not using liquid yeast.

 

[Irrenarzt]

Be sure to rehydrate 2 packs in ~200 mL of 104 degree sanitized water with a bit of yeast nutrient for at least 15 minutes before you pitch. That's your best chance of making your numbers for attenuation.

 

[King of Cascade]

I disagree with this theory... Of course, the law of diminishing returns comes into play, but I've had 100 ibu beers and I've had Mikkeller's 1000 ibu and there's a noticeable, non-vegetal difference. The hop bitterness is so enjoyably intense that you can taste it on your palate for a full 15 minutes after emptying the glass.

That being said, I've been positive PROP tested and I'm a supertaster. I don't know if that makes any difference, but contrary to most supertasters, I love bitterness... (underripened fruit, outrageous ipa's, fresh white grapefruit, passionfruit, etc)

I've been positive PROP tested

That’s cool that you’re a pilot and have your props tested but I brew beer and a lot of it and have been brewing this type of beer for 15 years (before it was cool). 100 IBU’s is 100 IBU’s no matter if you use whole hops, pellets or extract. I think those hops would be of better use in the later additions so you could get some flavor and aroma as well as the 100 or so IBU’s that you get in solution. How you use the hops gives you character, not how much. Water chemistry plays a big role as well so you get a more rounded bitterness and not a harsh lingering bitterness that stays on the back of your tongue for 15 minutes. That is my opinion so take from it what you will.

 

[Sean]

I agree with King on the hops schedule and water chemistry.

It sounds a bit like you are putting the recipe together from what you have on hand. You're also taking a huge OG down in one big step. All of that is fine for a pale ale, or a brown, but for such a grand enterprise you need to plan.

My first thought when I looked at the recipe was you will end up with about 9 gallons of syrupy bile.

Not that I am wishing you bad luck, on the contrary, good luck. I think you may need it.

 

[lastsecondapex]

That’s cool that you’re a pilot and have your props tested but I brew beer and a lot of it and have been brewing this type of beer for 15 years (before it was cool). 100 IBU’s is 100 IBU’s no matter if you use whole hops, pellets or extract. I think those hops would be of better use in the later additions so you could get some flavor and aroma as well as the 100 or so IBU’s that you get in solution. How you use the hops gives you character, not how much. Water chemistry plays a big role as well so you get a more rounded bitterness and not a harsh lingering bitterness that stays on the back of your tongue for 15 minutes. That is my opinion so take from it what you will.

How is 1 lb of hops @ 20 or later and 4oz dry hop not enough????

 

[King of Cascade]

How is 1 lb of hops @ 20 or later and 4oz dry hop not enough????

You’re missing the point. I just think the hops wont make much of a difference in bittering as you will already get all the IBU’s you could get into solution. It seems like you want to use up all these hops so use them at a time in the boil that will benefit your beer is a positive way.


BTW: Just joking about the PROP test... how and where did you get tested?

 

[lastsecondapex]

Just spoke with a brewer & lab manager @ Russian River. His Advice:

Keep the 90 & 40 minute additions and move the 6oz at 20 mins to a dry hop addition- he stated Pliny the Younger has 4 seperate dry hops and this lends to more perceived hop flavor once the beer is IBU saturated... Then move the 15 minute addition to the 10 min. mark and bump the last additions to flameout. Also, he said switch the grain bill:

27.5 lbs 2-Row
10 lbs Maris Otter
4 lbs honey

and remove the Caramel completely

Hmm...

 

[passedpawn]

You’re missing the point. I just think the hops wont make much of a difference in bittering as you will already get all the IBU’s you could get into solution. It seems like you want to use up all these hops so use them at a time in the boil that will benefit your beer is a positive way.


BTW: Just joking about the PROP test... how and where did you get tested?

I've understood that the 100 IBU limit was due to a threshold of the mouth's ability to perceive bitterness: after 100 IBU we just don't taste any further bitterness. I don't think there is a limit that keeps the hop oils from being isomerized.

 

[lastsecondapex]

[quote="King of Cascade]
BTW: Just joking about the PROP test... how and where did you get tested?[/quote]

It was a lab test in college, although, the chemical is found in a number of prescription drugs... 6-n-Propylthiouracil, I think...

If you've ever taken prednisone, I'm pretty sure that it contains traces of the chemical... A VERY unpleasant taste.

 

[King of Cascade]

I've understood that the 100 IBU limit was due to a threshold of the mouth's ability to perceive bitterness: after 100 IBU we just don't taste any further bitterness. I don't think there is a limit that keeps the hop oils from being isomerized.

Check out a book called Brewing Science and Practice by Dennis E Briggs, Chris A Boulton, Peter A Brookes and Roger Stevens.

This section covers the information you seek
8.2.4 Isomerization of the a-acids


I could copy a bunch of links or quotes but I think you will learn more if you look it up yourself

 

[passedpawn]

Check out a book called Brewing Science and Practice by Dennis E Briggs, Chris A Boulton, Peter A Brookes and Roger Stevens.

This section covers the information you seek
8.2.4 Isomerization of the a-acids


I could copy a bunch of links or quotes but I think you will learn more if you look it up yourself

Thanks, I'll do that. Always something new to learn around here.

 

[passedpawn]

I skimmed the first few pages of 8.2.4 and the only mention of 100 IBU is that it says "exceptional 100 IBU beers have been reported".

Unfortunately, that's all I could get from Amazon without coughing up $355. Yeah, right.

 

[King of Cascade]

Thanks, I'll do that. Always something new to learn around here.

Brewing Science is an expensive book and will tell you why things in brewing happen. It’s a tough read if you don’t have a chemistry back ground but has a ton of info. I think Designing Great beers has some info on the solubility of aa in wort and might give you the same info.

 

[passedpawn]

Brewing Science is an expensive book and will tell you why things in brewing happen. It’s a tough read if you don’t have a chemistry back ground but has a ton of info. I think Designing Great beers has some info on the solubility of aa in wort and might give you the same info.

I had a Gilbert chemistry set when I was young. Heated sugar in a tt over a burner and made caramel. That's about it.

Nothing like a little chemistry to make an otherwise intelligent person feel very stupid. I've been meaning to pick up Designing Great Beers for a long time - it's that time now. Thanks again.

 

[lastsecondapex]

Okay, brewed this yesterday. Here's what I did after that conversation with Russian River and a talk with a local brewmaster:

37.5lbs. Maris Otter
4 lbs. Sugar Syrup (I boiled 3.5lbs organic brown sugar in 1 quart of pineapple puree and 1 quart water to soft crack and added it at the 30min remaining mark. Tasted Awesome)

4oz Apollo @ 90
2oz Warrior @ 90
2oz Warrior @ 45
2oz Centennial @ 45
2oz Citra @ 45
2oz Warrior @ 15
2oz Warrior @ 5
2oz Citra @ 5
2oz Centennial @ 5
2oz Warrior @ Flameout

Dry hop 14 days:
4oz Citra
4oz Magnum

I hit 1.090 on the dot. This beer smells amazing.

 

[Cubslover]

Okay, brewed this yesterday. Here's what I did after that conversation with Russian River and a talk with a local brewmaster:

37.5lbs. Maris Otter
4 lbs. Sugar Syrup (I boiled 3.5lbs organic brown sugar in 1 quart of pineapple puree and 1 quart water to soft crack and added it at the 30min remaining mark. Tasted Awesome)

4oz Apollo @ 90
2oz Warrior @ 90
2oz Citra @ 45
2oz Centennial @ 45
2oz Citra @ 45
2oz Warrior @ 45
2oz Warrior @ 15
2oz Citra @ 5
2oz Centennial @ 5
2oz Warrior @ 5

Dry hop 14 days:
4oz Citra
4oz Magnum

I hit 1.090 on the dot. This beer smells amazing.

I assume one of these times is a typo? That brew sounds great!

 

[lastsecondapex]

I assume one of these times is a typo? That brew sounds great!

Correct- edited.

Thanks!

 

[brum]

^

Might be a dumb question but is this 5 or 10gal

 

[lastsecondapex]

10 gallons

 

[passedpawn]

Correct- edited.

Thanks!

Doesn't look edited to me. Though: I'm still working on my 1st coffee Monday morning, so I'm still a bit daft.

 

[lastsecondapex]

Doesn't look edited to me. Though: I'm still working on my 1st coffee Monday morning, so I'm still a bit daft.

Had 1 too many 45 minute additions, and 2 oz warrior at flameout

This, of course, being on the recipe posted at the beginning of this page

 

[passedpawn]

Had 1 too many 45 minute additions, and 2 oz warrior at flameout

This, of course, being on the recipe posted at the beginning of this page

It was the coffee / Monday excuse. I was looking at the recipe in post #51, which is corrected now but wasn't a minute ago (er, I don't think it was... uh, nevermind. Mondays )

 

[King of Cascade]

Why dry hop with Magnum? Its not known for its aroma. Is this what your local brewmaster recommended? What brewery is he at?

 

[lastsecondapex]

Why dry hop with Magnum? Its not known for its aroma. Is this what your local brewmaster recommended? What brewery is he at?

The brewer at Russian River recommended a high aa aromatic hop (citra) accompanied by a neutral bittering hop (magnum) to maximize flavor and perceived bitterness. Its an experiment, so we'll see