I hate refrigerators

[Owly055]

I've owned countless refrigerators in the last 40 years, and NOT ONE SINGLE ONE WORKED RIGHT.........

That's right....NOT ONE. The freezer doesn't freeze properly, while the fridge swings wildly from too warm to freezing. You get things balanced out decently, and a week later your ice cream melts, or your salad greens freeze.

I can't be alone in this frustration.......can I? My big expensive side by side is just as bad as every other unit I've owned.

Here's what I propose doing. This fridge operates on a sensor in the refrigerator compartment, does it's cooling in the freezer compartment, and a "valve" allows a percentage of the cold air to enter the fridge. You adjust the freezer temp according to how much air you allow into the fridge, and you adjust fridge temp with the thermostat. This is a pretty much universal method of operation.

I intend to install two PID controllers..... One in the freezer and one in the fridge. The one in the freezer will control freezer temp by turning the compressor on and off. The one in the fridge will control refrigerator temp by turning a fan on and off, bringing cold air from the freezer to the fridge.

This will allow me to set the Hysteresis for the variation I want... 1 degree or 20 degrees, or 3 degrees.

Is this nuts? I don't think so. I've finally come to the conclusion that if I want something to work right, I'm going to have to build it myself!!


H.W.

 

[JINKS]

Million dollar invention right here.ipe:

 

[jbaysurfer]

Same principal of the Son of a Fermentation Chamber.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mb226sT6qEc[/ame]

 

[kh54s10]

I guess your solution sounds good but I have owned 3 refrigerators since 1990 and still own all of them. The second one came with my present house and is from 1988 I think. I had an energy audit and was told they were not too bad. They all work fine. One is a minifridge that cools my fermentation chamber.

 

[Owly055]

I guess your solution sounds good but I have owned 3 refrigerators since 1990 and still own all of them. The second one came with my present house and is from 1988 I think. I had an energy audit and was told they were not too bad. They all work fine. One is a minifridge that cools my fermentation chamber.

Energy isn't the issue....... at least energy at the plug. You apparently are satisfied with the performance of typical household units. To be honest, the problem is probably ME. I do NOT use "climate control". I don't like climate control. My windows are open, and the indoor temp will vary this time of year from the high 80's to the low 50's (day/night). I suspect that "normal" people don't have the problems with refrigeration that I do. If they did, every refrigerator would have two PIDS. People around me set their thermostat at 72. If it gets colder, it kicks the heat on.......if hotter, it kicks the AC on. I'll run nothing but a fan (when needed) from now until September.

H.W.

 

[Billy-Klubb]

technology is for suckers.

 

[gratus fermentatio]

My fridge works well enough for me. Freezer keeps stuff frozen, refrigerator keeps things cold without freezing them. It's set at about 7 on the temp dial. My AC units are a bit underpowered though, had to augment them with external fans. So far, I've been able to keep 1 room at a pretty constant 65*F & the rest of the house under 70*F, but I don't know if they'll be able to do so when it's 100*F outside.
Regards, GF.

 

[podz]

I've got a Siemens Electronic standing freezer that I bought 15 years ago half-price because it was a floor model. It still works flawlessly. I even stored it outside on my balcony during a long Finnish winter one year because I didn't have room for it inside my apartment. Simply couldn't ask for a better freezer.

On the other hand, all refrigerators are crap. I especially hate it when manufacturers combine freezers with refrigerators. I just spent two hours yesterday defrosting the freezer portion of my fridge with a blow dryer, a bucket and a rag. Next time, I'm going to buy a construction-grade heat gun to do the job. Anyway, good thing the freezer portion is on the bottom on european models instead of on the top like north american models. Makes the job a whole lot easier.

 

[Homercidal]

I don't think I've owned a fridge that I noticed wasn't doing it's job well. Maybe I haven't been as obsessive about it as I need to be...

 

[Owly055]

I don't think I've owned a fridge that I noticed wasn't doing it's job well. Maybe I haven't been as obsessive about it as I need to be...

One doesn't have to be "obsessive" to be frustrated with damaged produce ( I use a lot of mixed salad greens), and soft ice cream. Interesting that while both of us have had quite a few refrigerators, I find their erratic behavior frustrating, and you don't even notice it. I live alone and cook for myself, so perhaps that's the difference....... I also rarely buy a new fridge, but I do not hesitate to replace the thermostat if it seems to be acting up (with a factory replacement). Mine's going to get a PID one of these days.


H.W.

 

[brewingmeister]

To be honest, the problem is probably ME. I do NOT use "climate control". I don't like climate control. My windows are open, and the indoor temp will vary this time of year from the high 80's to the low 50's (day/night).

You have already solved and created your problem. It's the 40+ degree ambient temp swings in the room with the fridge. Sounds like unless you want to constantly be adjusting the fridge dial to accommodate the temp swings you need to a) put the fridge in the basement where the ambient temp is constant b) turn on the hvac or c) build on overly complicated franken fridge that will probably die out of spite shortly after you complete it. Good luck with your endeavors, fighting nature can be a real ***** sometimes.

 

[Owly055]

You have already solved and created your problem. It's the 40+ degree ambient temp swings in the room with the fridge. Sounds like unless you want to constantly be adjusting the fridge dial to accommodate the temp swings you need to a) put the fridge in the basement where the ambient temp is constant b) turn on the hvac or c) build on overly complicated franken fridge that will probably die out of spite shortly after you complete it. Good luck with your endeavors, fighting nature can be a real ***** sometimes.

The fridge has a thermostat which should respond to the internal temp of the fridge.........not room temp. If the fridge gets too cold.... it should shut it off, if too warm turn it on.... The thermostat and it's sensing coil are inside the fridge, not in the kitchen. I could understand the freezer compartment not being really consistent as there is no sensor there. But that's not the problem.


H.W.

 

[j1n]

Get ice blocks delivered to you via railroad and then you can use that to store your food. no chance of freezing your greens either.

 

[brewingmeister]

The fridge has a thermostat which should respond to the internal temp of the fridge.........not room temp. If the fridge gets too cold.... it should shut it off, if too warm turn it on.... The thermostat and it's sensing coil are inside the fridge, not in the kitchen. I could understand the freezer compartment not being really consistent as there is no sensor there. But that's not the problem.


H.W.

But the thermostat IS in the kitchen. It's in the fridge which is in the kitchen where the temp varies greatly and the fridge is trying to keep up with the changes. I keep my fridge pretty cold and get some frozen veggies maybe twice a year from this kind of thing.

 

[Homercidal]

A fridge ought to be able to adjust it's internal temperature to keep up with ambient temp. IF its insulation and cooling capacity is up to snuff.

I've never noticed my refrigerated items too warm or too cold. Our new fridge has a temp display and I've never seen it off it's setting by more than 2 degrees.

It's a Samsung side-by-side about 2 years old.

 

[krackin]

I have one that was given to me a couple years ago. I can't think of the brand, it is kind of old also. I'll try to remember to look later. This one is great for meat curing, the only one that I ever found that was. I can keep it at 36-38* regardless of ambient temps. The top freezer seems ok too but that is secondary. I'll go out and see what it is, have to feed the hogs anyway.

 

[krackin]

It's an older GE. I didn't crawl around the back to see the tag for a DOM. I'll bet it is 20 YO.

 

[Owly055]

It's an older GE. I didn't crawl around the back to see the tag for a DOM. I'll bet it is 20 YO.

Mine is also a GE... but probably not quite that old............. Technically ambient temps should be irrelevant to an insulated thermostatically controlled environment. The idea that I should create a temperature controlled HVAC living environment that varies only a few degrees in order to be like every other rubber stamp yuppie so that my appliances can operate correctly, just offends me to the core. My body LIKES change, it thrives on it. In my childhood it was just accepted that you got up in a house where you could see your breath, lit a fire in the stove and took the chill off. Went out to the outhouse......often in bare or stocking feet, packed water, etc. I learned to dress for the weather and carry enough clothes so when it changed, I could deal with it. Where I live, I deal with temps (outdoor) that I've seen range from -48F up to nearly 100F, and I spend a great deal of time outdoors, and work outdoors a lot in all seasons. I adapt to the conditions and always have. The urban indoor climate controlled environment is something I rebell against with every fiber of my being. It's like wearing a "body condom".... Isolating yourself from the world around you. It's fine for the modern yuppie.....not for me. I'm an old fashioned redneck country boy and will be that until I breath my last!

H.W.

 

[brewingmeister]

The idea that I should create a temperature controlled HVAC living environment that varies only a few degrees in order to be like every other rubber stamp yuppie so that my appliances can operate correctly, just offends me to the core.

First off, hilarious. Second, it's not that you have to hvac yourself to yuppy land. I take temp readings and adjust my dials around twice a year when the weather shifts. Every fridge is different though. Size, compressor, insulation, thermal mass, etc along with the original settings of the fridge are going to vary.

 

[Owly055]

First off, hilarious. Second, it's not that you have to hvac yourself to yuppy land. I take temp readings and adjust my dials around twice a year when the weather shifts. Every fridge is different though. Size, compressor, insulation, thermal mass, etc along with the original settings of the fridge are going to vary.

40 years ago I lived in yuppie land ( the city ) for a number of years. Every place you go has an artificial climate with central heating and central air, soft lighting and elevator music. If you work in an office or go to school, etc, you hear the soft drone of fans and the buzz of fluorescent lighting, walk on soft carpeting and live in a precisely regulated 72 degrees. The air reeks of chemical perfumes, &c. This is what most people seem to regard as "normal". Where I live, the way I live, the temp fluctuates up and down with the weather, and I apply a bit of heat when it gets uncomfortably cold, or turn on a fan when it gets uncomfortably hot. There is no traffic noise except when my neighbor goes out to do his ranch chores. The magpies strut around on my lawn picking whatever they can find, and I toss them meat scraps every morning. My window opens toward the creek 15' behind the house, and the breeze blows in warm or cool.... whatever the temp outside is, along with the sounds of the red wing blackbird perched on a cattail, and the croak of ravens, occasional owl hoot, the honking or snorting of the deer in the hayfield. In a couple of hours, I'll head for the post office on foot...... a mile through fields and woods. The sweet scent of cottonwoods and alfalfa in bloom mingle with the dank rain smell. There are no humming fans or chemical stink bombs here, no elevator music.... I can't live the other way!

H.W.

 

[Billy-Klubb]

so far all I got out of this is some kind of conspiracy where you end up with a crappy fridge, you really love living in the "cuntreh", and city=yuppy.


a fridge does rely on its' outer environment. performance is related to ambient temps (including constant temps) and humidity. the more well designed and insulated models aren't as sensitive as the lesser of the spectrum.

 

[krackin]

Makes for an acceptable rant. Maybe not a fist banging, bounce bottles off the table rant, but acceptable for a low key general midweek gripe. I'd rate it a 6.5.

 

[benco]

If makes anybody feel better my kitchen fridge is not working right. Probably on its way out. The repair man has worked on it a couple of times. I've worked on it a couple of times. Everytime he comes out, he tells me I have a good one( maytag). I'm not ready to spend a couple of grand.

 

[Stealthcruiser]

Glue some insulation sheets on the outside of your refrigerator, and monitor it for the temp swings for 6 months.

Some of that pink foam stuff, as pink has a calming effect..........

Get back to us then...........

 

[Owly055]

Here's the way I see it. The thermostat sensing bulb in the fridge is located where it is shielded so the fridge doesn't kick on every time the door is opened. This is a compromise, but still it IS measuring the inside temp of the fridge, NOT room temp. Because I don't open and close the door constantly like a typical family, the air doesn't circulate into the semi enclosed area where the thermostat is located nearly as much as a typical American family of 4........ which is what it is designed for. I really don't see how it could have any relationship to ambient temps. It just really isn't logical.

I've considered moving the thermostat sensing bulb into the main fridge area, but then it would be too responsive. I have a notion that if I were to install a muffin fan in the fridge that operated periodically to circulate air around, the temp would be more uniform.

Thermal mass I think is the key..... water would be perfect.

When planning an off grid home and shop which I never built, a number of years ago, I included the ultimate refrigerator. It was an "ice cellar". It would be filled with blocks of ice during winter, that were buried in sawdust just like a typical ice house. The ice would be frozen in troughs in cold weather, and slid down into this heavily insulate cellar, and covered with sawdust. An open area would contain what amounted to a dumb waiter... a little "elevator" that would lower your foods down into the center of the ice cellar. When you wanted milk, eggs, meat, beer..... oops I got the order backward ;-), you would simply raise it up into an insulated "closet", then lower it again. Simple, cheap, and effective.

Many of my neighbors still have ice houses on the property (ranches) left over from the days before electricity. Many of them didn't have 'lectricity until the early to mid '60's. They sawed it off the pond or creek every winter, and stored it through the year. Of course they sawed off chunks for the ice chest in the kitchen. My best friend learned to weld using a welder that operated from the 32 volt power system that was powered by a Jacobs wind charger and a couple of Kohler generators, and of course used those big 2 volt lead acid cells in glass. There is however one old homestead a few mile from here where you can see the remains of a system like the one I envisioned. The beauty of ice is the "thermal flywheel" effect. And of course you don't have rumbling grumbling, shaking and groaning refrigerators. Most folks take these noises for granted........ they have the TV or radio blaring away all day. I kind of treasure "silence".

H.W.

 

[Billy-Klubb]

Here's the way I see it. The thermostat sensing bulb in the fridge is located where it is shielded so the fridge doesn't kick on every time the door is opened. This is a compromise, but still it IS measuring the inside temp of the fridge, NOT room temp. Because I don't open and close the door constantly like a typical family, the air doesn't circulate into the semi enclosed area where the thermostat is located nearly as much as a typical American family of 4........ which is what it is designed for. I really don't see how it could have any relationship to ambient temps. It just really isn't logical.

it is logical because the inside of the fridge doesn't exist in a different dimension. when I worked making ammunition in Vegas, I ran the "trace cell". it was an insulated, temperature controlled portable storage container, and had both a humidifier & dehumidifier since the powdered chemicals and equipment I mixed & used were sensitive to temperature and humidity. it worked fine when it was inside the building in Las Vegas. when our company relocated to outside Boulder City, NV, the put the trace cell outside where the temp swings alone caused problems with the equipment & the chemical mixing consistency.

another first hand example: my wife & I lived in NE Wyoming for almost 4 years. the fridge in the house had the same problems of "freeze spots". we got tired of it & got a fancy new fridge with the freezer on bottom. we still had the same problem. the house was not well insulated and we didn't do much in the summer for temp control except a few window fans. same freeze spot problems. in the winter we didn't have the problem when we did not have the temp swing & humidity issues. we've now been in Minnesota for 3 years with the same fridge and have no issues with freeze spots. our house here is insulated much better and we use fancy yuppy temp control devices. and when we first moved here (in the house my wife grew up in), my in-laws had the same problem with their fridge & chest freezer. they would open all the windows at night and wait for the house to get hot during the day before closing windows & turning on the AC.

every place I have lived in SD, MT, NV, WY, and now MN I have noticed the fridges and/or chest freezers rely on their environment as much as the sensor relies on insulation.