I end up with too much sparge water?

[Dizzey]

I read here that for all grain you should use a ratio of something like 1.25/qts per lb of grain and 2/qts per lb of grain to spare, so Im multiplying my grain by 1.25 then diving by 4 to get galloons, and then the weight of the grains by 2 and dividing by 4 to get gallons.

My batch I made today endedup with 4 gallons mash water and like 6 gallons 3 pints sparge water. I was using 12.75 lbs of grain. But I put 4 gallons in the mash and had about 2.7-2.9 gallons come out.

But with sparging, I ended up with like 2 gallons too many. Im using an 8 gallon pot, I usually just leave whatever cant fit in my brewpot and pour it off--so far my numbers have been accurate to beersmith, (beersmith estimated a final OG of 1.066 for this batch and that's close to what I had, I couldnt read the hydrometer because of the foam in the test tube, but it was above 1.06 and below 1.68 which was below the meniscus) so I think it's probably fine but why do I have so much extra sparge water?

The recipe I follow said it made a 5.5 gal batch and I put maybe between 5 and 5.5 gallons in my fermentor and still had a bit leftover in my kettle, enough to get a good hydrometer reading and then still pour some out, so it doesnt even seem like it all boiled off in 60 minutes. Like brewsmith estimated my inital boil to be 7-point-something gallons to boil down to what should be 5.5 but my numbers in terms of OG are matching, but my gallons are not.

What am I doing wrong?

What is the proper ratio of sparge water? I know grains absorb water, I lose water in the initial mash (Im estimating 1-1.5 gallons), but then the sparge, I dont really lose any, so I have too much sparge water. What's the right way to do it?

Should I change to mash initially with more water and sparge with less? I taste the initial wort I get when I first mash and it's very good; strong flavored and sweet, but maybe Im mashing with too little water and it isnt supposed to be that sticky and sweet or something?

 

[IslandLizard]

Brew365.com - Mash and Sparge water calculator.

If you mash tun is large enough, you can use a higher water to grain ratio. The larger volume keeps the temp better too.

Ratios between 1.0-2.0 are very common. Use too much, there won't be enough water left to sparge.
I use a ratio of 1.5, which I like. The mash is easy to stir that way. In a looser mash, just watch out for dough balls, break em up.

 

[Yesfan]

What's your preboil volume? Boil off rate? Knowing those numbers will help you out with the correct volume going into your carboys. You want 5.5 gallons into the fermenter, and your first runnings is 2.7-2.9 gallons (let's say 3G even for this example). If your boil off rate is 1G/hr, then you know you should start with 6.5G of wert. So:

6.5G - 3G = 3.5G of sparge water.

For mash water volume, the norm seems to be 1.25qts/lb. Like Island Lizard, I just mash with 1.5qts/lb. It just keeps the math easier. I worry more about having the mash stirred good (no dough balls) and what I need to hit my preboil volumes more than how much water is lost to grain absorption.

 

[kh54s10]

You need to fine tune the parameters in your equipment profile. I generally ignore the sparge amounts that Beersmith tells me to use.

Make it easy on yourself. Use whatever mash ratio you want. I use whatever mash amount Beersmith says to use. I then measure how much wort I collect with the first runnings. I then have a good idea what I need for my sparge. I usually divide that number in half and do a first sparge, measure the volume collected the do a second sparge with the amount I need for my preboil.

You do need to know your boil off rate. For me it is right around 2 gallons per hour so I need a little over 7 gallons to end up with a little over 5 gallons into the fermenter.

 

[Dizzey]

Boil off rate depends on altitude right? I'm at about 1000 ft so boiling here is about 210, but if it isnt based on altitude, wouldnt it be hard to get the same "level" of boil each time? Im pretty sure it's based on altitude because of physics, but maybe Im remembering high school wrong, and theres something Im overlooking.

Other than that, boil off rate would just be tested by boiling like 6 gallons of water for an hour and seeing how much you have left--right? Im measuring just using pyrex, I have a 1/2gal measuring cup, so getting precise will be kinda difficult.

But for sure, I was thinking sparging obviously is not absorbing any more liquid, so youre confirming the grains arent gonna absorb any more after the initial mash--theyre already saturated, right?

Also if youre measuring how much you get off your first runnings, dont you have to measure and heat your sparge water after that? Is it okay to let your wort and grains sit in the meantime?

Would a good way of doing it be to just measure out however much I need for the initial mash and maybe assume 1gal/absorbed by the grain, so then just assume maybe (theoretically) 7 gallons preboil, so subtract my initial mash volume fmor 7 gallons, then add an extra gallon to make up for what was absorbed by the grains?

So for example, I mashed with 4 gallons today, and got, rounded, say 2.75 gallons out, so the grains absorbed 1.25 gallons; if I theoretically need a little over 7 gallons and boil for 60 minutes at a boil off rate of 1.5gal/hr to hit 5.5 gal going into the fermenter (I think it's lower for me but havent measured yet), I would be sparging with 3 gallons, plus 1.25 to account for what the grains absorbed, so 4.25 gallons. Would that be a good way to ballpark it?

 

[jrgtr42]

I batch sparge, so I will adjust the amount I put in on the fly, depending on what I get out of the first runnings. I tend to mash at about 1.25qt /1lb, plus or minus. It's not a big deal if you use a quart to much or too little with that ratio. Also, even on a similar mash, for some reason I'll get different amounts of first runnings out.
I tend to heat up way too much water for sparging - you can leave some behind, but it you run short, it's not so easy. I have a 30qt kettle I use, and I probably heat somewhere around 5 gallons - I'm not as exact.

So, When my first runnings are drained, I'll measure how much I have, then put it on the burner to start coming up towards boil. in the meantime, I'll add the sparge water, rounding up to the next gallon to be safe, and hit that timer.
once the time is up, vorlauf and drain as usual, using another pot I have. Add to the main boil and let go.

Dizzey: In your example, what I would do, is, saying you have the 2.75 gallons first runnings, you need about 7 to hit your mark, so you need that 4.25 To be safe, I would add about 4.5 or so gallons in, just to be safe. with sparge, your grains are saturated, so you don't have to worry about loss. Generally, I would ignore what you put in to mash originally, don't factor that or the absorbtion rate into your later calculations - just focus on what your target is and how much you got out.