Hybrid Fly Sparge Technique

[pirate504]

Well if you see what WildWest and I did in this thread, we did a true hybrid, running off the first runnings and doing a big infusion before running off. It's quicker than straight fly sparging since you dump the first runnings in a hurry, and allows you to achieve mashout quickly without a special mashout infusion.

uhhhh Ok I got lost somewhere on that part first time through reading the thread

I understand now :rockin:

I'm going to be brewing a heavy stout soon once I keg the batch i have going now ...sounds like an ideal beer to test this technique out on

 

[BierMuncher]

Here's a slight set up modification for a large grain bill.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-3WNUXtA64]YouTube - Fly Sparge Bucket[/ame]

 

[planenut]

Fly Sparging – Relies on a “squeegee” method of washing the sugar out of the grain bed. The grain bed may be stirred once just before sparging begins. Then the wort is drained very slowly and hot water is continually added to the top of the tun to maintain 2-3 inches of liquid over the grain bed. This hot clean water slowly pushes the sugar water down and out through the drain valve. By not stirring the grains, you are not re-suspending sugars in the grain bed and the rinse is (in theory) more complete.

Do you recommend stirring the grain bed before the vorlauf?

 

[BierMuncher]

Do you recommend stirring the grain bed before the vorlauf?

About 20 minutes prior to the sparge, I give the mash a good stirring. Just to make sure I'm breaking up any wet clumps and getting a consistent mash consistency.

 

[planenut]

Planning to try it tomorrow.

Thanks!

 

[justrich]

I have used this system for a couple of years and find that by adding a pie tin on an arm over my grains I can pour suacepans without channeling the grain bed. When you are doing it right, the top of the grain bed looks like a sandy beach...no pumps, no problem

 

[Monsterc]

About 20 minutes prior to the sparge, I give the mash a good stirring. Just to make sure I'm breaking up any wet clumps and getting a consistent mash consistency.

What kind of false bottom are you using with your set up?

 

[BierMuncher]

What kind of false bottom are you using with your set up?

No false bottom. MAnifold.

 

[Pete08]

When I converted to this simple fly sparge method I picked up 8 points in efficiency. No extra equipment needed…just a change in the method for adding / draining wort from the mash tun. This method was discussed in a recent issue of BYO, but these are my own random notes.

In both cases…the approach to the vorlauf is the same.

Difference between batch and fly.
Batch Sparging – Uses a method of stirring and rinsing the grains several times to wash out the sugars. We drain the wort. Add more water. Stir. Drain the wort and repeat until we get our desired pre-boil volume.

Fly Sparging – Relies on a “squeegee” method of washing the sugar out of the grain bed. The grain bed may be stirred once just before sparging begins. Then the wort is drained very slowly and hot water is continually added to the top of the tun to maintain 2-3 inches of liquid over the grain bed. This hot clean water slowly pushes the sugar water down and out through the drain valve. By not stirring the grains, you are not re-suspending sugars in the grain bed and the rinse is (in theory) more complete.

Fly sparging does not require sparge arms, drip rings or other apparatus to get the desired effect. Though a hybrid approach may be somewhat less efficient than using a sparge arm…it is also much quicker. Hybrid Fly sparging is a nice compromise between the simplicity of batch sparging and the extreme efficiency of fly sparging.

Technique:

If you use a march pump to deliver your sparge water…you can adapt your system to this technique very easily.
For me…I’m a sauce pot kind of guy.

1. Raise your sparge water to 185 degrees (we’ll save the debate for exact temps for another time).
   [*]Vorlauf your first few quarts of runoff like normal. (I advise a very slow vorlauf to prevent grain bed suction and stuck sparges)
   [*]When you’re ready…begin draining the wort very slowly into your kettle. (My valve is usually opened about 25%)
   [*]Immediately begin ladling in hot water to the top of your mash…careful not to disturb the bed of grains below the waters surface.
   [*]I usually will lay the pot into the water and then gently tip it to “fold” the water in rather than pour it.
   [*]Continue to ladle in your sparge water at the same rate it is flowing out. (You are now fly sparging).
   [*]If you need to pause to refill you hot liquor tank….simply close your valve until you are ready to resume.

A trick I like to employ is that once the kettle is filled up to my post boil level…I draw a sample…cool it and take a gravity reading. Then I continue to fill the kettle. This gives me a good reading about how aggressive I’m going to need to be with my preboil volume to hit my target OG.

Since you can’t be exact with how much runoff you’re going to have…once I get to my preboil level, I’ll drop the drain hose into a separate bucket to catch the excess. In theory, if my rinse has been effective, this excess should have little to no sugar value and can be discarded.

This process is a bit longer than a standard batch sparge. But it is substantially quicker than a full fly sparge.

A few notes:

• Since your grain bed essentially resting longer with this method…you’ll want to adjust your rest times accordingly. My first few beers with this method were bigger than I anticipated…but the longer rest time meant they attenuated lower as well.
• The slower you are in this process, the better your efficiency.
• For round coolers, keeping your manifold or other device in the center of the grain bed will prevent water from finding the course of least resistance (the cooler wall), which will lower your efficiency.
• Remember that the point here is that the clean hot water on top…is pushing down on the denser sugar water below and “plunging” it out the bottom.

Anyway. You don’t need to buy any equipment to give it a try. See if it helps your Brewhouse.

The sketch below is my terrible attempt to illustrate the effect of a hybrid fly sparge.

View attachment 7128

So no 1st runnings, just open the valve and drain until about 2 inches above grain bed, then start the sparge?

 

[BierMuncher]

So no 1st runnings, just open the valve and drain until about 2 inches above grain bed, then start the sparge?

Yep. Just one steady, continual sparge. I will obviously vorlauf a few quarts for clarity, but then it's one sparge session.

 

[BigWhitey_FrostBox]

Has anyone tried this techinique with a SS braid instead of a manifold or false bottom?

 

[Bobby_M]

I know I wouldn't. A stainless braid begs for channeling due to it's small collection point.

 

[Hentai]

This is exactly what I do.
I am too impatient to wait for the batch sparge (it seems to take forever) replacing the draining water with hot water keeps the sparge moving.

Now, I do it with a pump a well, did i mention I am impatient, I just needed to get a larger hose from the HLT to keep up. Start off slow then ramp it up

 

[portlandbeergeek]

Awesome write-up, BM! I use this method with a s/s braid. Not the best setup, I know. I can actually see the wort on top want to flow in the direction of the spigot. So I add all my sparge water to the other side of my rectangular cooler. But it's easier than batch sparging, and seems to get me better efficency.
I'm not crafty enough to construct a false bottom (took 8 trips to the hardware store just go modify my cooler!), so I think a bazooka screen is in my near future. *IF* I an figure out how to install it, that is.

 

[BierMuncher]

...
I'm not crafty enough to construct a false bottom (took 8 trips to the hardware store just go modify my cooler!), so I think a bazooka screen is in my near future. *IF* I an figure out how to install it, that is.

No need for either.

You could probably knock something like this out in a couple hours.

My mashtun and cpvc manifold - HomeBrewTalk Gallery

 

[portlandbeergeek]

Ooooh that dosen't look too hard to make. Just PVC pipe? How does it attach to the spigot? You wouldn't happen to have a tutorial for that, would 'ya?
Does that need to be taken apart to be cleaned?
Also, it looks like you've taken the lid of your cooler off the hinges. Great idea, my lid always seems to get in the way as I mash on the kitchen counter and the cabinets get in the way.

 

[BierMuncher]

Ooooh that dosen't look too hard to make. Just PVC pipe? How does it attach to the spigot? You wouldn't happen to have a tutorial for that, would 'ya?
Does that need to be taken apart to be cleaned?
Also, it looks like you've taken the lid of your cooler off the hinges. Great idea, my lid always seems to get in the way as I mash on the kitchen counter and the cabinets get in the way.

That wasn't mine...just and example of a rectangular cooler setup.

I used copper for mine.

I think it's worth a trip to HD or Lowe's or someplace like that with your cooler in tow. Go to the plumbing section and have someone help you fit together what you need for a manifold and spigot.

Search around here...there are plenty of DIY examples.

 

[portlandbeergeek]

Is the copper worth the money? I don't want to go through the trouble of making a plastic one only to upgrade after three batches.
Think i'll do that this weekend if I've got the time. God knows my wife will agree I need to spend more money on beer stuff....

 

[BierMuncher]

Is the copper worth the money? I don't want to go through the trouble of making a plastic one only to upgrade after three batches.
Think i'll do that this weekend if I've got the time. God knows my wife will agree I need to spend more money on beer stuff....

I just used copper cuz I had it laying around.

 

[kcstrom]

Is the copper worth the money? I don't want to go through the trouble of making a plastic one only to upgrade after three batches.
Think i'll do that this weekend if I've got the time. God knows my wife will agree I need to spend more money on beer stuff....

Perhaps someone else can explain the benefit of copper, but in addition to being cheaper, I think I had an easier time making my manifold out of CPVC. Drilling the holes (or cutting slots if you prefer that) seems like it would be much tougher with the copper. Plus, if you screw up, you probably have a lot of CPVC left to make a new piece with.

I don't know if regular PVC would be bad to use, but I noticed that CPVC claims to be for potable (hot and cold) water, so that is what I used. Also note that you need CPVC fitting (if you use CPVC pipe) as 1/2" is actually different between the two.

kcstrom

 

[bell0347]

Do not use PVC, it will release chemicals at high temps that will be bad for you and possibly make your beer taste bad. Use CPVC instead. It is what the hot water lines in a lot of new houses are made of. That is what I made mine out of. It is easy to work with, very cheap, and you don't need to braze, solder, glue, weld or any crazy stuff like that. Just cram it all together and it comes apart with a little effort for clean up. If you screw up, you have like five feet of pipe left to play with.

 

[portlandbeergeek]

Ah, I was wondering why some people put the extra C in front of PVC. Thanks for the info, this sounds fairly easy. I've got a crappy $2 hacksaw, will that be good enough to cut through the CPVC? I don't mind a little bit of manual labor....but not too much.

 

[BierMuncher]

Ah, I was wondering why some people put the extra C in front of PVC. Thanks for the info, this sounds fairly easy. I've got a crappy $2 hacksaw, will that be good enough to cut through the CPVC? I don't mind a little bit of manual labor....but not too much.

A hack saw will cut cpvc jut fine. You'll want a clamp or something to hold it steady.

Cut as many slits as you can about 1/3 of the way through...on one side only.

When you assemble...the slits go down inside the cooler.

 

[wedward]

BM - thanks for this thread!

I used this for my first AG brew this weekend and it made life easy. I brewed two of yours - Centennial Blonde and 3 Crop Cream (same day). I hit the #'s beautifully on Cent. Blonde, but fatigue (and 5 Dark Lagers) had me bouncing around a bit on temps for the 3 crop...

This was a great intro on sparging.. Now if I could figure out my boil volumes...

 

[BierMuncher]

...This was a great intro on sparging.. Now if I could figure out my boil volumes...

Thanks. One step at a time my friend...one step at a time.

 

[nyctreasure]

Hey.. i think if we drain slowly, then the problem of the drain wont arise at all. Ive even heard that fly sparge setup takes 1 and half hour time for complete setup. Dont know this for sure!

 

[spin02]

I think I am going to give this method a try next weekend. Is there still a risk of high PH, like the regular fly sparge method?

 

[skiingimpy]

I built a set up similar to the CPVC one shown, but I built mine out of copper pipe (not the flexible tubing). I believe everything was 1/2 inch, and just used some copper elbows and Ts. Instead of doing any soldering or braizing, I was crafty about how everything goes together, so all I have to do on brew day is shove all the pieces together and shove the manifold out-pipe into the MLT in-pipe and I'm ready to go. Haven't had any problems with stuck sparges, and JUST discovered rice hulls. It's easy to clean up, I found it easy to make, having built some other types of backyard equipment out of copper, the only tool you need is a hack saw (I have a reciprocating power saw and would highly recommend it) It really isn't that expensive, and it works great.

Also, I've seen a lot of people with complicated sparge arms and such, but I built mine out of some PVC and a cheap low flow shower head. Requires a dedicated HLT set up, so you can pipe your sparge water into the shower head, but it was a pretty easy build. I fairly easily get 80% without having to pay much attention.

 

[John Long]

I've used this method the entire 14 months I've homebrewed and I thought I was just being lazy.

 

[jeremyx]

I know I wouldn't. A stainless braid begs for channeling due to it's small collection point.

I use a braid. Just bunched it together and used zip ties to keep it in the middle of the tun like a manifold. Works like a charm.