Huge Imperial Stout Recipe Critique

[rjstew]

I'm planning on a ridiculously high gravity Imperial Stout for my next brew in September. That'll give me about 3 months to bulk age and mellow for the winter. I'm aiming for a Parabola clone, minus the bourbon barrel aging.

Imperial Stout
All Grain, Russian Imperial Stout

Efficiency: 60.0 % Batch size: 6.5 gal

Fermentable Amount Use PPG Color
Maris Otter Pale (UK) 24.9 lb 59 % Mash 38 3 °L
Munich Dark (DE) 4.0 lb 9 % Mash 35 9 °L
Chocolate (UK) 2.0 lb 4 % Mash 31 337 °L
Golden Naked Oats (UK) 2.0 lb 4 % 33 10 °L
Flaked Oats 28.5 oz 4 % 37 1 °L
Black Patent (UK) 24.0 oz 3 % Mash 27 525 °L
Crystal 45L (UK) 1.2 lb 2 % Mash 34 45 °L
CaraHell (DE) 1.2 lb 2 % Mash 35 9 °L
Caramel/Crystal 120L (US) 1.2 lb 2 % Mash 32 120 °L
Crisp Roasted Barley 19.0 oz 2 % 34 550 °L
Carafa III 17.0 oz 2 % 34 525 °L

Hops Boil time: 60 min

Hop Amount Time Use Form AA
Columbus (US) 3.75 oz 60 min Boil Pellet 15.0%
Hallertauer Tradition (DE) 2.0 oz 0 min Boil Pellet 4.5%

Yeasts

Name Lab/Product Average Attenuation
Dry English Ale Yeast White Labs WLP007 75.0%
Predicted Stats

1.140 OG
1.035 FG
74 IBU
13.8% ABV
100 SRM
0.53 IBU/OG

A couple questions:

Any comments/critique on the overall recipe/grain %'s?

Is that a OK % of black patent? I'm concerned about the acrid/bunt flavor people have mentioned but with all the other grains, I feel 3% shouldn't overwhelm.

I haven't seen much about Golden Naked Oats, but they had them at Northern Brewer so I picked them up. Any comments/advice?

I was planning on making a 3.5L starter. Will that be sufficient or should I brew a 3 gallon pale ale, wash the yeast and then use that yeast cake for this RIS? I've brewed quite a few 9-11% beers and never had an issue with pitching a 2L starter and having it take off. I don't have a stir plate, I just use a 1 gallon pickle jar, start with 1L, step up to 2L 24 hours later and then 3.5L 48 hours later. When I initially pitch the yeast I shake the heck out of it, cover with foil and then swirl every hour or so.

I'd also like to brew a Parti-Gyle with the leftover grains from this huge stout. Any suggestions for something interesting? I have a ton of hops from a previous DIPA. Black IPA? I could throw some Conan I cultured from two cans of Heady Topper into the Parti-Gyle to see how that yeast goes with a darker beer? I also have Wyeast 3711 French saison sitting on a cake right now. Maybe a dark fall saison?

Many thanks in advance.

 

[MrSnacks]

I love how much black patent is in there. I'd even consider dropping the Carafa III for more.

Somewhere along the line black patent got a bad name and it doesn't seem to have recovered. Like Obsidian Stout? Well there's a crap-ton of black patent in there.

More info here:

http://byo.com/stories/issue/item/155-back-in-black-the-truth-about-black-patent-malt

And here's an experiment I ran that didn't get much attention:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/we-did-blind-tasting-roasted-dark-malts-here-results-483719/

 

[rjstew]

Appreciate the input MrSnacks. I actually read that BYO article before I decided on the 3% number . I'm going to leave the Carafa III more for the SRM and less for the flavor. I think there's enough roasted malts to make up for it. I have to buy the Black Patent in 1lb increments, so I may just toss in a few extra ounces to bring it to 4%. As I said, I'm going for a Parabola clone, and since that's aged in Bourbon barrels, which imparts a charred flavor from the barrels, I'll use the Black Patent to add char.

 

[SpeedYellow]

Overall, seems to me that if you're asking for recipe comments, then you probably haven't mastered these ingredients, which means this recipe with 11 grains (!!) is too complicated. I'd suggest simplifying -- you can easily do this with 6. But if learning about the impact of ingredients isn't high on your list, then nevermind. Personally, I'd use just one form of oats, drop the Carafa (redundant), drop the Black Patent (redundant and nasty anyway), drop the Carahell (redundant), drop the Munich (likely to get lost amidst the roast anyway), etc. Also, 11% roasted malts may be a bit high for a beer that big, but that's a judgment call. I'd drop a few %.

...
Somewhere along the line black patent got a bad name and it doesn't seem to have recovered...

I think Black Patent got a bad name because it's nasty and it ruins every beer it's used in. But that's just a guess.

 

[Xpertskir]

Asking on one message board wasn't enough, discostew?

 

[SpeedYellow]

... I'm going to leave the Carafa III more for the SRM and less for the flavor. ....

Not sure I see the reasoning there. Once you get beyond 45 or 50 SRM, you're already dark black so why bother tossing in grains just for the sake of getting to 100 SRM? Just food for thought.

 

[MrSnacks]

I think Black Patent got a bad name because it's nasty and it ruins every beer it's used in. But that's just a guess.

Yeah, Bells Kalamazoo Stout and Expedition Stout suck. So does Obsidian Stout.
Founders Porter. Blech. Nasty. Ruined. Oh and Founders Breakfast Stout. Disgusting.

Surly Darkness. Also gross.

I could keep going. But I'm sure you see the point.

 

[rjstew]

Asking on one message board wasn't enough, discostew?

Ha, I had a feeling you'd be on here. Hey, I go to PT for my general life questions (relationship advice, travel tips, restuarant recs, tax questions) but feel it's also helpful to get specialized input. I didn't ignore your advice, look at that Black Patent addition because of you!

SpeedYellow, If anything over 50 SRM doesn't matter, why do commercial beers go well over 100?

 

[SpeedYellow]

Yeah, Bells Kalamazoo Stout and Expedition Stout suck. So does Obsidian Stout.
Founders Porter. Blech. Nasty. Ruined. Oh and Founders Breakfast Stout. Disgusting.

Surly Darkness. Also gross.

I could keep going. But I'm sure you see the point.

My comment was obviously tongue-in-cheek. Enough folks dislike the flavor of BPM that it's gotten a bad rap. That's the reality. It's bad reputation didn't come out of thin air. I find it disgusting, but obviously some folks like it, and I totally respect that.

...
SpeedYellow, If anything over 50 SRM doesn't matter, why do commercial beers go well over 100?

I'm merely saying going over 50 won't have much impact on color. It'll most certainly have an impact on flavor!! So again, it depends what you want.

 

[Xpertskir]

Ha, I had a feeling you'd be on here. Hey, I go to PT for my general life questions (relationship advice, travel tips, restuarant recs, tax questions) but feel it's also helpful to get specialized input. I didn't ignore your advice, look at that Black Patent addition because of you!

SpeedYellow, If anything over 50 SRM doesn't matter, why do commercial beers go well over 100?

LOL...

I knew you didn't ignore it, any advice is worth hearing(even from PT) not all advice is worth following, however.

 

[kingwood-kid]

I don't know what Parabola is, but oak cubes make a fine sub for a Bourbon barrel at a fraction of the price. 11 grains is indeed a bit excessive, but Black Patent is delicious. So brew http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2012/02/lets-brew-wednesday-1914-courage.html

 

[rjstew]

I don't know what Parabola is, but oak cubes make a fine sub for a Bourbon barrel at a fraction of the price. 11 grains is indeed a bit excessive, but Black Patent is delicious. So brew http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2012/02/lets-brew-wednesday-1914-courage.html

Firestone Walker Parabola - http://www.firestonebeer.com/beers/products/parabola

Thanks for the tip kingwood. I actually used charred oak chips soaked in Heaven Hill bourbon for a "Bourbon Barrel Aged Stout" I made last winter. It turned out amazing, lots of bourbon and vanilla. It somehow got infected from the chips/bourbon though, because the bottles were fine for the first few months but are now gushers. I had a 9 gallon batch I split into two 4.5 gallon fermenters. I made half a breakfast stout with coffee and cacao, the other half had the bourbon oak chips. The breakfast stout bottles still open fine but I can't open the bourbon bottles unless I'm over a sink.

I'm looking for a straight up, no additives stout for this one.

All that being said, one of my next beers is going to be my first attempt at a sour beer, which will be a Supplication clone. Planning on baking oak cubes at 250 for an hour to sanitize, then soak in Pinot noir.

Sorry, that was all another thread.