How's this for an Oatmeal Stout water profile?

[hezagenius]

This will be my first foray into stouts since I've started messing with water chemistry. Just want some additional eyes on this to make sure I'm not out of line on anything. Anything look too high or too low?

ABV: 6.8%
SRM: 33
IBU: ~30

This is my modeled profile.
Ca: 68
Mg: 5
Na: 37
SO4: 50
Cl: 99
Bicarb: 98
TH: 192
RA: 29
pH: 5.5

I'm starting with distilled water (assuming pH 7). I'll check the pH with a meter to verify. If pH is higher than 7, I can dial down the baking soda.

 

[MaxStout]

Why do you even need the baking soda?

 

[hezagenius]

Why do you even need the baking soda?

To bring the pH up. Without it, my pH is sitting around 5.2.

 

[McKnuckle]

It looks fine as is. If I were to be picky and apply my own experience, I'd reduce gypsum until Ca is around 50 ppm, which will leave SO4 lowered as well. Then I'd re-evaluate the amount of baking soda needed, since it will be slightly less. I'd aim for Na in the low 20s and any pH from 5.4 to 5.5 would be acceptable to me.

 

[hezagenius]

It looks fine as is. If I were to be picky and apply my own experience, I'd reduce gypsum until Ca is around 50 ppm, which will leave SO4 lowered as well. Then I'd re-evaluate the amount of baking soda needed, since it will be slightly less. I'd aim for Na in the low 20s and any pH from 5.4 to 5.5 would be acceptable to me.

I'm using both gypsum and CaCl. If I drop the gypsum to 0, that still leaves me with 55.7ppm Ca and 19.8ppm SO4. Is that too low for SO4?

 

[McKnuckle]

Nope, not too low at all. You don't need any SO4 (or Mg for that matter).

 

[hezagenius]

Nope, not too low at all. You don't need any SO4 (or Mg for that matter).

Is there a need for Cl in a stout? I've only brewed IPA's in the past since I started using water chemistry and most of the focus for me has been on SO4 and Cl.

 

[McKnuckle]

Well, when building up water, you have to get the calcium from somewhere - so it's either from gypsum, CaCl, or both.

There are some anecdotal opinions that SO4 and Na don't mix that well. I can't corroborate that, but I follow the guideline anyway since it seems innocuous. Stouts benefit from Na and Chloride is the "full" ion (vs. "dry" for SO4) so I follow that guideline, too. I have brewed stouts with moderate amounts of both SO4 and Cl, and have had no flaws I'd attribute to the water. I always keep my minerals very moderate, always under 100, usually quite a bit less (based on 50 ppm Ca as the overall target).

 

[stz]

I'd ditch the bicarb. A pH of 5.2 is fine and it'll give you extra buffering capacity during the sparge. I don't really feel a great need for sulphate, but you need the calcium. I get wary when it is below 100ppm. Chloride should be emphasised for a malt forward sweetness. I'd personally use up to 200ppm chloride and 80ppm sulphate. For my water this gives me the calcium I crave.

Also don't be concerned about calcium in the finished beer. While I'm not one of those that believe that more is always better tests routinely prove that high potential levels from the salts don't survive to end up in the finished beer.

 

[Jimbodaman]

It looks just fine. I'd do things slightly different but it's perfectly acceptable, no chlorine/chloramine, mash pH in range, SO4/Cl ratio is good for a stout, not 'too' hard. Cheers looks great.

 

[mabrungard]

This is my modeled profile.
Ca: 68
Mg: 5
Na: 37
SO4: 50
Cl: 99
Bicarb: 98
TH: 192
RA: 29
pH: 5.5

I'm starting with distilled water (assuming pH 7). I'll check the pH with a meter to verify. If pH is higher than 7, I can dial down the baking soda.

Nothing really wrong with that profile. However, I might dial back the calcium chloride since that is getting on up there. Keeping the sulfate modest (which you have) is important in roasty beers since roast and sulfate are both drying on your palate. You don't want to overdo it.

As you've found, the mash pH will be low with the combination of your water salts and the roast acidity. Adding alkalinity to the water is needed to keep the mashing pH up. Allowing the mashing pH to drop below 5.4 may result in the roast notes in beer becoming harsh or acrid. That effect increases with falling pH. The targeted pH of 5.5 should help smooth the roast flavors. The elevated sodium content also helps round and sweeten the beer. There is still room to increase sodium, if you need to add baking soda.

 

[hezagenius]

Nothing really wrong with that profile. However, I might dial back the calcium chloride since that is getting on up there. Keeping the sulfate modest (which you have) is important in roasty beers since roast and sulfate are both drying on your palate. You don't want to overdo it.

As you've found, the mash pH will be low with the combination of your water salts and the roast acidity. Adding alkalinity to the water is needed to keep the mashing pH up. Allowing the mashing pH to drop below 5.4 may result in the roast notes in beer becoming harsh or acrid. That effect increases with falling pH. The targeted pH of 5.5 should help smooth the roast flavors. The elevated sodium content also helps round and sweeten the beer. There is still room to increase sodium, if you need to add baking soda.

Is there a max Cl ppm you'd recommend for this style?

 

[mabrungard]

I find that keeping the Cl level below 70 ppm avoids overt flavor from that ion. But some can prefer it.