how to tell if a used keg is 'legal'?

[ShortSnoutBrewing]

Not to go totally off topic, but Blacklab...instead of posting to CL hoping for a brewery to contact you, contact them directly. On a whim one day I contacted Widmer, McMenamins and Laurelwood and they all responded within 10mins of me sending them an email. McMenamins and Laurelwood were no go, but Widmer does this kind of thing all the time. They even have a wait list.

 

[ShortSnoutBrewing]

I don't think so. If I lose the receipt for my tv, does it now belong to Best Buy? Not likely. Unless those kegs have serial numbers, it looks to me like a possession is nine tenths of the law deal.

This is why I laminated my receipt from Widmer and have it in my wallet at all times!!! Actually I'm just a nerd like that.

 

[mr x]

GilaMinumBeer, no need to get edgy. Just discussing the issue. It's not about 'ethics' entirely, it's also about what would happen in a court of law? How do you insist something not in your possession is yours without serial numbers or a theft report? I lived with a person who spent his adult life in court, and I know what I think would happen.

 

[Brakeman_Brewing]

Its like my grandma always used to say, why buy the cow when you get the sex for free?

 

[blacklab]

If that reasoning gives you a clear concience, so be it.

I have no interest in debating or further explaining ethical behavior to what are assumed to be responsible adults.

Hey...let's be cool! No need to start name calling!

 

[blacklab]

Not to go totally off topic, but Blacklab...instead of posting to CL hoping for a brewery to contact you, contact them directly. On a whim one day I contacted Widmer, McMenamins and Laurelwood and they all responded within 10mins of me sending them an email. McMenamins and Laurelwood were no go, but Widmer does this kind of thing all the time. They even have a wait list.

Yeah, dude, I know. The CL thing was before I asked you for advice. FYI - McMens uses some sort of wacky old keg anyway which is apparently FNG for our uses.

<waiting list guy>

 

[Beerthoven]

I very recently started looking for a used keg and put an ad on CL here in P-town. I was really looking for someone from a brewery or wholesaler just getting rid of some old stuff. I very clearly stated that I am a homebrewer and wanted a scrappy one to cut apart for a DYI brewpot.

The responses I got were SHADY. One guy refused to give me a price, but wanted me to come look at the keg and give him an offer. Others were barely coherent.

The keggle looks kind of fun/cool, but at this point I'm just going to drop cash on a gigantic brewpot to avoid the type of people I got responses from. Very weird stuff.

I don't know if you guys around the country have this same issue, but around here all of the meth/crack/whatever heads have been stealing copper and other valuable metals from wherever they can find it and selling it for cash. I think some of these folks fell into that category.

+1

I looked into kegs, and decided to buy a true brew pot instead (15-gallons). The brew pot is 100% legit and ready to go right out of the box (no cutting or drilling required). Of course, I don't get to post pics of my polished keggles here on HBT, but that is a price I'm willing to pay.

 

[RegionalChaos]

I don't think the point of the deposit has been lost so much, but is it really known. If the bar the keg goes missing from pays the $35 deposit, that is the end of their responsibility. The brewery does not still expect them to return the keg. A little different scenario than the deposit on a rented aerator. Similar to you returning a bottle for deposit. You have been compensated, and now how do claim ownership?

I think if you skipped out on returning a keg for the deposit, they might decide not to sell you beer again. I would imagine it ends up being a fool me once, fool me twice type of scenario. A new keg costs a lot more then 35$ dollars. And the scrap price of stainless is only going up. Otherwise what would stop someone from just buying the kegs to sell to scrap over and over and over and over and ....

"Deposit" does not mean the same thing as "Bill of Sale". They have very different definitions.

Personally, if I wanted to purchase a keg, I'd just check my local scrap yard frequently, maybe let them know what I'm looking for so they can set one aside when it comes in. I would feel morally fine purchasing a keg this way. It puts the burden of legality on the scrap yard.

 

[FlyingHorse]

Indeed, or at least I haven't gotten into kegging yet. Hope I did not offend!

No, I hope I didn't. I was just kinda surprised that at 1500+ posts you hadn't yet been a part of one of these horse-floggers.

 

[Anthony_Lopez]

I love it... E-lawyers vs E-gangsters...

Not to feed the flames here, but I think there is no need to insinuate that we are not "responsible adults" All adults have different opinions on just about everything... Just because our opinions might differ from others doesn't make us irresponsible or morally inept.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

GilaMinumBeer, no need to get edgy. Just discussing the issue. It's not about 'ethics' entirely, it's also about what would happen in a court of law? How do you insist something not in your possession is yours without serial numbers or a theft report? I lived with a person who spent his adult life in court, and I know what I think would happen.

Not getting edgy, not intending to at least. It's just the round and round debate of the ethics of the matter with people who obviously dont care is mindnumbingly pointless.

IIRC, and it has been a while since I inspected my kegs closely, be they sanke's or cornies but they all have the words "Property of (brewery, Bottler, etc.)" etched into them, somewhere. Legally speaking, me thinks that is enough.

Like was said before the difference between a deposit and a bill of sale are profound and clear.

 

[mr x]

I think if you skipped out on returning a keg for the deposit, they might decide not to sell you beer again. I would imagine it ends up being a fool me once, fool me twice type of scenario. A new keg costs a lot more then 35$ dollars. And the scrap price of stainless is only going up. Otherwise what would stop someone from just buying the kegs to sell to scrap over and over and over and over and ....

"Deposit" does not mean the same thing as "Bill of Sale". They have very different definitions.

Bars have kegs go missing all the time, they don't get cut off. They pay the deposit and that's it. Now if 40 went missing over a few months, something would be done I'm sure. The bars around home used to stack them in the parking lot or out back by the dumpster for weeks unguarded. Once the price of stainless went up - that stopped.

Deposit and bill of sale are different, but compensation for said item is pretty much universal. Like my previous example, once the guys were compensated for their loss, they no longer owned the property. They actually weren't even allowed to return the insurance money and keep the guns.

So once again - how do you claim ownership of an item you have been compensated for, which has no serial numbers, is not unique, a theft report has not been filed for, and is not in your possession? Tough sell.

 

[mr x]

"Property of (brewery, Bottler, etc.)" etched into them, somewhere. Legally speaking, me thinks that is enough.

So if I sold you a tv and etched the words Property of Joe, Joe could come into your house someday and take your TV? Your getting caught up in an ethical conumdrum without an argument to back it up.

 

[Anthony_Lopez]

I'm Joe and I'm coming for my TV...

 

[menschmaschine]

From what I have heard, the breweries are more than willing to sell damaged kegs.

Not Dogfish Head.

 

[limey lou]

alot of the holier than thous preach one thing and do another. you see their brew set-ups with 3 kegs that they supposedly got out of scrapyards...bla, bla bla. then, when you get one they say yours is illegal, or immoral acquisition. it's a pot calling the kettle black. scrupulous bunch.....but only online! i'd guess the majority here buy their kegs on craigslist, bars, or buddies....same as what you want to do. i say get it and not give it another thought!!!

 

[Quilyn]

I got my keg using CL, it was a bar owner that responded. He had a keg that had belonged to a brewery that was no longer in business. It had been sitting in his storage room for at least 10 years, none of his distributers would take it back.

I don't think there are words to descibe the smell that came out of that keg when it was depressurized.

Quilyn

 

[EvilTOJ]

Sure there is, Quilyn. I call that smell The Bog of Eternal Stench. I got one of those babies kickin around I need to depressurize and get the top cut off of. I can verify that Kilted Brewer got his kegs directly from the brewery. They even drilled a starter hole for him right in the top! I dunno if it's an actual starter hole, or to keep him from using it to keg in, but either way who cares?

 

[EdWort]

This all could be avoided. Just get one of these.

 

[Liquidicem]

I think its dead...

Nice bling Ed. Did you get yours yet?

 

[Anthony_Lopez]

I still see some life left in that horse...

The Blichmann's are quite nice, however VERY expensive for the same capacity as a keg... Just get a old keg and stop worrying about it...

Where do you live??

 

[EdWort]

Actually, if you compare the Sabco Sanke Keg at almost $500 delivered, the 20 gallon Blingmann comes in with the same and better features for $393 delivered from Austin Home Brew. I added the Boil screen to mine and I like the fact that it is a side pickup since I use a mongo immersion chiller. So apples to apples, the Blingmann kicks Sabco's butt.

Then again, with a dremel, drill, etc. you can make a nice kettle out of a keg.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

[YOUTUBE]TWZdssCrW7g[/YOUTUBE]


http://www.portfolio.com/views/columns/first-draft/2007/09/28/Keg-Theft-Pushes-Deposits-Up

 

[RayInUT]

IMO, BMC ought to be arrested for impersonating breweries. I have a receipt for the keg I bought and I am good with that. We aren't talking Ferraris or rental cars here, we are talking used kegs. If that same keg fell off my deck and get a big dent in it, the store wouldn't take it back and I would be out the deposit. If it makes you feel better, hit it with a sledge hammer before you cut the top off. That way the store won't take it back and you can sleep at night. I'm okay with the origins of my keggle though.

 

[lextasy23]

imo, bmc ought to be arrested for impersonating breweries. I have a receipt for the keg i bought and i am good with that. We aren't talking ferraris or rental cars here, we are talking used kegs. If that same keg fell off my deck and get a big dent in it, the store wouldn't take it back and i would be out the deposit. if it makes you feel better, hit it with a sledge hammer before you cut the top off. That way the store won't take it back and you can sleep at night. i'm okay with the origins of my keggle though.