How to Ruin an Imperial Stout, Pt 1

[Comfort_Zone]

So as of last year I've decided to start brewing some BIG beers (I.E. >13% abv) to be given out in variety packs. Mostly for family and friends. One of the beers I brewed was a wheat-based RIS - somewhat based on Uber Joe from 3 Sheeps? - and while it was good, I went too heavy on the crystal malts which really backfired when I decided to take a portion to ~20% abv. It's not bad, just tastes like it should be boiled down into a syrup and poured over some pancakes. That being said, I'm rebrewing it this year and hopefully things will turn out better! The influences are: Black Tuesday, Uber Joe, World Wide Stout, and Cashmere Hammer.

Here's what I have so far for 6 gallons:

10# Bonlander Munich
10# Weyermann Dark Wheat Malt

Mash @148 for....until it's done? Probably 2 hours just to be safe.

90 minute boil, weather permitting.

Hop wise, I've been using a 2:1:1 blend of German Magnum, Apollo, and Summit lately (I played around with several bittering hops and blends over the last year or so and this one worked well with my palate), and that's about it.

I've got an abundance of the following grains which are currently candidates for this year's revision:

-Carafa III Special
-Patagonia Black Pearl
-Midnight Wheat
-Blackprinz
-Chocolate Wheat
-Chocolate Rye
-Roasted Barley
-Crystal Rye

I went the whole crystal/caramel malt last year but which the richness of the base malts and the effect of higher abv on a higher FG I'm wondering if it's even worth throwing any in. Don't get me wrong, I've got some Patagonia 190L, Special B, Special W, Extra Special, and a few others just hanging around but I'm leaning toward excluding them.

This brew will likely end up at ~18% abv. I got a small batch of last year's brew up to around 23% with some WLP099 and sugar additions, but it was just too syrupy for my palate.

Another thing I'm changing up is the yeast. Last year was S-04 supplemented with a healthy slug of WLP099, but I'm thinking for this year I'll start with WLP4025 Dry Belgian Ale and then pitch some WLP099 as reinforcements, not that the Bruery strain really needs the help.

So, what do you think? Have I properly ruined a RIS??????
All feedback and input is much appreciated.

 

[thehaze]

For a RIS, I would not skip Roasted Barley, that's for sure. Chocolate Rye, Midnight Wheat are good roasted malts, which add colour and not so much astringency, so use those to adjust colour on the final beer.

How much " Crystal " malts did you use in your latest attempt? Both qty and %?

I for one use Crystal malts in RIS and other dark styles, so to balance the beer out, with a healthy dose of bittering.

 

[madscientist451]

Interesting post, I've never heard of any of the examples you listed, I guess I need to get out more...Anyway, I looked them up and only Black Tuesday and World Wide Stout are high ABV beers, the rest are normal ABV.
At this point, you have to decide what flavor your are looking for.
Do you want an Oak/Bourbon Character?
The recent version of World Wide Stout is aged in Oak with Vanilla Beans.
The commercial breweries producing this type of beer all seem to be going with some kind of added flavor to help balance the high ABV. No need to re-invent the wheel, you should go with what they have found works.
You have a leg up on pro brewers by being able to add bourbon for added flavor, commercial brewers can't do that.
If you search for clone recipes for the above two beers there is a large amount of material to look through, including plenty of posts here on HBT.
Here's an interesting blog post from a brewer trying to emulate Black Tuesday:
http://www.blackalleybrewing.com/2011/03/bourbon-aged-russian-imperial-stout.html
Good Luck and please post your results!

 

[Comfort_Zone]

Interesting post, I've never heard of any of the examples you listed, I guess I need to get out more...Anyway, I looked them up and only Black Tuesday and World Wide Stout are high ABV beers, the rest are normal ABV.
At this point, you have to decide what flavor your are looking for.
Do you want an Oak/Bourbon Character?
The recent version of World Wide Stout is aged in Oak with Vanilla Beans.
The commercial breweries producing this type of beer all seem to be going with some kind of added flavor to help balance the high ABV. No need to re-invent the wheel, you should go with what they have found works.
You have a leg up on pro brewers by being able to add bourbon for added flavor, commercial brewers can't do that.
If you search for clone recipes for the above two beers there is a large amount of material to look through, including plenty of posts here on HBT.
Here's an interesting blog post from a brewer trying to emulate Black Tuesday:
http://www.blackalleybrewing.com/2011/03/bourbon-aged-russian-imperial-stout.html
Good Luck and please post your results!

I try to keep it interesting. I actually forgot to add Labyrinth from Uinta, but I'm sure I got the point across. That's quite an interesting read there! I knew the Bruery house strain is a beast but I didn't realize it was so ravenous. I'll definitely keep the updates coming!

 

[Comfort_Zone]

For a RIS, I would not skip Roasted Barley, that's for sure. Chocolate Rye, Midnight Wheat are good roasted malts, which add colour and not so much astringency, so use those to adjust colour on the final beer.

How much " Crystal " malts did you use in your latest attempt? Both qty and %?

I for one use Crystal malts in RIS and other dark styles, so to balance the beer out, with a healthy dose of bittering.

Apologies for the late response, crystal malt wise I had:

1lb Special B (4.8%)
6 oz C80 (1.8%)
6 oz C120 (1.8%)

I'm fairly certain that the Special B was the culprit, however I'd like to use it in this upcoming revision. The original was also an all-extract batch and it's entirely likely that I caramelized some of the sugars.

With my dark beers I've started using Patagonia's Perla Negra in place of roasted barley, just as a straight substitution and I've had phenomenal results. Very pleased to say the least. Let me dig up the new recipe.......

 

[Comfort_Zone]

Alright!!!!!! Here's the revised recipe. After a LOT of 1 gal and 1/2 gal testers for everything here's what I've come up with so far for a 6-gallon batch.

10lbs Bonlander Munich
10lbs Weyermann Dark Wheat Malt
5lbs Crystal Rye
2.5lbs Black Pearl, Light (340L)
2lbs Chocolate Rye
~1lb Midnight Wheat (mostly for color adjustment)

Mash @150 for an hour, or until it's ready. May just let it go for a couple hours just in case.

I'll be steeping the Crystal Rye and roasted malts separately mostly out of a lack of space in a 10 gallon Igloo cooler.

I'm contemplating what to do about the crystal malts. I'm thinking 10-12 oz Special B as I love the flavor but don't want it to overpower. I also have C120 as well as Patagonia 170 & 190. Perhaps 8 oz of any of those? They do have wonderful flavors.

Hops:

FWH to "120" IBUs for a 120 minute boil with a blend of Magnum, Apollo, and Summit (see original post). Actual IBUs are probably quite a bit lower.

Whirlfloc and yeast nutrient as appropriate. I'll be doing staggered yeast nutrient additions with the dextrose additions.

Estimated OG: 1.120? At least that's what BeerSmith is giving me.

Yeast:

TYB Dry Belgian Ale for "primary"
WLP099 Super High Gravity for "secondary"

A few notes on the amounts:

At first I thought 5 lbs of crystal rye would be too much as it has "crystal" in the name, however, after doing a 1.2 gallon tester with 1 lb I found that it wasn't really that sweet. Definitely had the toffee flavor, certainly very rich, but not what I would consider to be "sweet" and it's a flavor that I love in dark beers. I based the roasted grains on Jonny Lieberman's "Black Wine" where he used 2.25 lbs of roasted barley. I just bumped up some of the amounts to help offset some of the potential richness of using Munich. Which brings me to the next point! Munich malt! Again, I did some small testers to see if this would be a good base to use and I ended up really liking it.

So, am I entirely crazy? BeerSmith has my predicted FG at 1.004, which given the rather infamous ability for TYB's Dry Belgian Ale to chomp through sugars is this unreasonable? Should I be mashing closer to 156 to get something with more body?

 

[Grod1]

I personally think 5# of caraRye is to much. Maybe a bit of regular good rye.Cause i wouldn't up the chocolate rye.
in general why no two row/ maris or pilsen malt? Munich alone is 1/3 your recipe.

 

[Comfort_Zone]

I personally think 5# of caraRye is to much. Maybe a bit of regular good rye.Cause i wouldn't up the chocolate rye.
in general why no two row/ maris or pilsen malt? Munich alone is 1/3 your recipe.

Fair enough, I'm willing to admit that 5lbs might be excessive.

As for the Munich. I did some tests with different base malt combos, 2-row, 6-row, pils, vienna, Maris Otter, Golden Promise and standard Pale Malt were the candidates. I guess Munich just worked best with my taste buds? I suppose it's now more of a dark wheat wine in drag as a stout? Like I said, I could be completely crazy.

 

[Comfort_Zone]

And as luck would have it I forgot to post about my brew day so without further ado let's get started!!!!

Grains:

10lbs Bonlander Munich
10lbs Weyermann Dark Wheat
2lbs 10oz Quaker Old Fashioned Oats
2.5lbs Patagonia Perla Negra
2lbs Weyermann Chocolate Rye
1lb Midnight Wheat
1lb Weyermann Cararye
1lb Weyermann Carawheat
12oz Special B
8oz Patagonia Caramel 190

Steeped the dark grains overnight. Produced something that looked like the lovechild of squid ink and used motor oil.

Mashed at 148F for 2 hours supplemented with some amylase, got distracted and went to brunch, so the mash ended up going for ~5 hours.

Pulled off a good amount of runnings, probably could've done a 3rd runnings beer but time wasn't on my side.

60 minute boil

2oz Magnum @FWH
1oz Apollo @30min
1oz Summit @30min

Whirlfloc @15min

Pics to come soon!!!!!!!!!

 

[Comfort_Zone]

Dark grains happily steeping away.

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[Comfort_Zone]

Made sure all of the players were together bright and early. Had some DME on hand to adjust my gravity should my mash efficiency be lower than hoped for. Treated my water to take care of our less than ideal municipal source.

Mashed in almost perfectly, the aroma was nothing short of intoxicating.

Decided to use a blend of TYB Dry Belgian Ale with some WLP099.

Combined the liquor from the dark grains with my run off to better estimate my sparge.

Lots and lots of hops.

The spent grain turned into some form of wet concrete, no stuck sparge, thankfully.

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