How to rig up a fan for my keezer?

[Nagorg]

It’s better in stuck with insulation to the side of a keg or FV

LOL... I've read enough posts that had me thinking that may be the case. In my last keezer, I had the probe sandwiched between a water bottle and two koozie layers. To the best of my knowledge, that worked fine. I just cant help but think that having the probe in a thermowell (in a small container to improve temp change response) should be "better". Seeing your pic bubbled this notion up in my head again.
Guess I'll revert to the tried and true K.I.S.S. principle.

 

[Indian_villager]

If y'all have access to a 3d printer check this thing out that I contrapted. It allows you to adapt an EVA-dry rechargeable desiccant pack to a 120mm pc fan.

https://www.printables.com/model/268765-eva-dry-to-120mm-fan
I also used these speed controllers to adjust the speed of the 2 fans inside the keezer to cut down the noise.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07W5NZPH1/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[Nagorg]

to cut down the noise.

I'm definitely getting more noise than anticipated from the AC fan I used. Its not really that loud but there is a noticeable hum; certainly more that I'd like to have. Its not helping the WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor).

The model I used is marketed as "quiet" at 32 decibels. According to decibel charts that's slightly above a whisper at 30. Maybe its the tone or amplification from the keezer lid and minor vibrations. I used rubber washers between the standoffs and the lid in an attempt to reduce things like this.

Not sure a DC fan would be any quieter unless slowing down the speed would help. The AC fan is an AC Infinity LS1238 "low speed" model though.

**UPDATE: I ordered a fan speed controller from AC Infinity. Hopefully this will help me reduce the noise.

 

[Indian_villager]

I'm definitely getting more noise than anticipated from the AC fan I used. Its not really that loud but there is a noticeable hum; certainly more that I'd like to have. Its not helping the WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor).

The model I used is marketed as "quiet" at 32 decibels. According to decibel charts that's slightly above a whisper at 30. Maybe its the tone or amplification from the keezer lid and minor vibrations. I used rubber washers between the standoffs and the lid in an attempt to reduce things like this.

Not sure a DC fan would be any quieter unless slowing down the speed would help. The AC fan is an AC Infinity LS1238 "low speed" model though.

**UPDATE: I ordered a fan speed controller from AC Infinity. Hopefully this will help me reduce the noise.

The fan you posted has a rated speed of 1800RPM, the ones I'm using max out at 1350RPM and from there I have it cut down to about 50% output. A bigger fan spinning slower is going to be more efficient for noise/performance ratio.

 

[Nagorg]

A bigger fan spinning slower is going to be more efficient for noise/performance ratio.

Understood... Not sure I'd want a much bigger fan in my keezer. This fan isn't as fast as some PC fans I've seen but definitely agree that slowing it down should help. I'll find out soon, my controller should arrive today.

 

[day_trippr]

I expect that AC fan is dissipating a lot more heat than the typical PC fan as well...

 

[Indian_villager]

Understood... Not sure I'd want a much bigger fan in my keezer. This fan isn't as fast as some PC fans I've seen but definitely agree that slowing it down should help. I'll find out soon, my controller should arrive today.

Oh your size fan is fine, this was a general comment for those considering smaller fans. For my fist iteration I tried going with 40mm fans and immediately regret my decisions.

 

[Nagorg]

I expect that AC fan is dissipating a lot more heat than the typical PC fan as well...

Possibly... No idea how to quantify that. Guessing its not anything to get bent around the axle on though.

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

I made two strips of wood and screwed a variable-speed AC fan to them. Then I applied Velcro strips to the wood, and I stuck matching strips to the underside of my keezer lid. If the fan dies, I rip it off, put the wood strips on a new fan, and move on with life. I thought the Velcro might eventually pull loose from the weight of the fan, but after a year, nothing has moved.

I never bothered cleaning up the cord.

I saw a Northern Brewer video, and their company keezer looks like baboons built it. This kind of killed my motivation to make everything look perfect.

The collar on my keezer is a "temporary" one I build a year ago. It looks too good to replace. My wife actually believed I ordered a complete keezer, with collar and taps. She was amazed when she learned I built it. Seems like a B- job to me, but any wife who thinks a keezer looks good is not to be contradicted.

 

[mac_1103]

any wife who thinks a keezer looks good is not to be contradicted

My wife married me. Intentionally. I don't need additional reasons not to contradict her. But a little bonus like that every once in a while is nice.

 

[day_trippr]

Possibly... No idea how to quantify that. Guessing its not anything to get bent around the axle on though.

Probably not that extreme in significance

But the difference - like 15+ times higher dissipation than some 12 VDC fans of the same size - can translate into significantly more frequent compressor cycling. Even 12 VDC fans can affect cycle time: I run a single 120mm air mover and pair of 40mm fans driving air into my two EVA DRY 500 dessicators, and with them on the keezer will cycle 4 times a day this time of year, while with them off it'll be almost 6 3.

What's the make and model number of your fan?

Cheers!

 

[Nagorg]

Probably not that extreme in significance

But the difference - like 15+ times higher dissipation than some 12 VDC fans of the same size - can translate into significantly more frequent compressor cycling. Even 12 VDC fans can affect cycle time: I run a single 120mm air mover and pair of 40mm fans driving air into my two EVA DRY 500 dessicators, and with them on the keezer will cycle 4 times a day this time of year, while with them off it'll be almost 6.

What's the make and model number of your fan?

Cheers!

Its an AC Affinity Axial LS1238.

 

[day_trippr]

So, 9 watts. Not horrible, but a 12 VDC fan of the same size would be closer to 1.5 watts, fwiw...

Also, I mis-typed, my keezer cycles less frequently with the fans off

Cheers!

 

[Nagorg]

my keezer cycles less frequently with the fans off

That was my experience with my last keezer also. I think its due to the constant air movement over the shanks. Those things are basically heat-sinks. I know they stayed colder when the fans were on.

I get the natural conclusion that the heat from the fan running would be the cause. And while that may contribute, I think its more than that.

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

Why not put foam tubing over the shanks?

 

[Nagorg]

Why not put foam tubing over the shanks?

I didn't say this in my post but I'm planning on doing a trial of that using pipe insulation. The downside is that having cooler shanks/faucets results in less foam on the initial pour.

So this may (or may not) reduce cycling but could result in a lot of foam until the shanks/faucets cool after the first pour.

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

It seems like cycling is a problem that is only a problem when people think it's a problem. I never think about the frequency of my keezer's cycles. If it wears out, I'll get a new one.

I got my fans to reduce things like frozen keg bottoms and to speed up cooling and evaporation. They seem to do okay.

 

[day_trippr]

fwiw, I've gone through 3 keezers since 2010. They're fun to build but not every couple of years. Admittedly the 1st and 2nd were built using Craig's List buys, but still I'm hoping if I can pamper the current vintage - which was built on a new freezer - by minimizing cycling it'll last longer than otherwise...

Cheers!

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

My first two were Frigidaires. One died after a few years. The other was still going when I sold it. Web says the average is around 16 years, which must be based on use as freezers. Too bad there are no stats for keezers.

One of the best ways to prevent a refrigerator from cycling too much is to keep it full. When I didn't have much frozen food in my freezers, I put bags of water in them. My kitchen keezer is jam-packed.

I suppose a freezer kept above the freezing point will always cycle more, because of the heat of fusion. I don't know, though.

I see a lot of guys wrapping keezers up in decorative panels that make it harder to shed heat. I also wonder how many people give their keezers enough room. I was thinking I might put mine on a rolling base which would open the bottom to the air, but maybe the engineers designed it so the floor would help guide air over the coils.

It's too bad everything moved to China. I asked a repairman which brand to get, and he said they were all junk. Even brands like Sub-Zero. He said they broke down like all the others. My grandparents built a house in 1965. My grandmother made it to 2003, and they didn't replace their chest freezers. When I was in college, I bought a used American fridge from the 1950's, and it worked fine.

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

The web says freon made fridges last longer because it was not corrosive. I should have known.

 

[day_trippr]

Yes, there are indications R143a R134a is corrosive to some metals under certain conditions (generally, presence of moisture). But supposedly manufacturers add conditioners (corrosion inhibitors) to prevent that?

fwiw, my 14cf chest freezer rests atop a dolly and is bare nekkid - I even removed the HUGE factory "CYCLOPENTANE" sticker (which looked like a warning sign ).


Cheers!

[edit: fixed typo]

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

I'll bet you meant R134a, since a lot of machinery uses it now.

So it looks like you get hydrofluoric acid when this gas comes in contact with water. Sort of like that stuff that came out of the mouth-rape lobster in the original Alien movie. An acid that eats glass. And new refrigerators use aluminum where old ones had sturdy copper. What could possibly go wrong?

More great news: R134a is being phased out because of the ozone layer. It's already banned in cars. Wonder what they'll replace it with. Wasn't ozone the big issue with good old freon? I guess R134a makes smaller holes or something.

Web says chemicals like this are used because they are liquids at room temperature, under moderate pressure. Never knew that.

So get ready for your unreliable relatively-new keezers to go Tango Uniform early, with no hope of replacing the refrigerant, everybody.

The refrigeration industry should adopt Apple's unofficial slogan: "Just buy a new one."

 

[whoaru99]

Possibly... No idea how to quantify that. Guessing its not anything to get bent around the axle on though.

One could get a rough idea by looking at the "back panel" ratings on the fan.

~4.8W for this one, provided run at the full 24V

 

[whoaru99]

... R134a ... Wonder what they'll replace it with.

We are moving to R-1234yf.

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

Someone will Google and pretend they already knew the answer. Let's wait.

 

[whoaru99]

Someone will Google and pretend they already knew the answer. Let's wait.

Personally, I work in the product development group and it is R-1234yf we are moving to in our equipment.

This is mobile equipment though, not home freezers/refrigerators.

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

I wonder what will turn out to be wrong with that one.

I was wrong about the ozone thing. Freon ate ozone, but R134a is supposed to promote global warming.

Well, a brief search seems to show what the problem with R1234yf is. It costs about 10 times as much as R134a, and it's flammable. Does that sound right?

 

[whoaru99]

I could find out that stuff, but cost and detailed material properties are generally not my focus.

My work is more oversight that the change doesn't impact the customer by reduced cooling performance and or decreased reliability/durability.

 

[day_trippr]

There's always R-290 aka Propane: "Propane is not typically used as a refrigerant in traditional refrigeration systems. However, it has been explored as an alternative refrigerant due to its low environmental impact compared to some other refrigerants. Propane (R-290) is a hydrocarbon refrigerant with zero ozone depletion potential and low global warming potential."

Only, it 'splodes, which could ruin someone's day.

Or, R600a, aka Isobutane: "Isobutane is commonly used as a refrigerant in household refrigerators and freezers. It is considered environmentally friendly as it has a low global warming potential (GWP).

But, it also goes boom if provoked in free air...

Fun!

Cheers!

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

Imagine a world with nothing but warm beer.