How to heat a jacketed conical?

[Tom R]

I'm now the owner of a 15G Brewers Hardware jacketed conical!

It will likely live in my garage. It's about 45F in there this time of year, and I'll keep brewing ales for the next few batches, so I'm looking for the best way to heat the glycol that will be used in my yet-to-be-built DIY a/c chiller.

Maybe an aquarium heater? What has worked well for others? I plan to use an STC-1000 for switching power to the chill/heat sources. Thanks for your suggestions!

 

[Vale71]

Low powered heating element.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0182BETBE/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B019DSQ7OW/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[kevin58]

I have a jacketed SS Brewtech Brew Bucket fermenter and I just use a fermwrap. Works like a champ.

 

[Tom R]

OK, that makes sense. Thanks.

The DC version would need a serious power supply, so I'll look into the AC part.

I'm thinking I'll have the heating element share the same glycol reservoir as the chiller, rather than have two reservoirs. Anybody else done this successfully?

 

[Tom R]

The fermwrap would probably be the simplest solution, but I'd like to do all the temp management with glycol if it is reasonable. Mostly for aesthetics, I'll admit...

 

[Tartan1]

I have the Brewers Hardware jacketed 8 gal version and will be using this

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/706-5...0001&campid=5338413729&icep_item=281709798883

and this

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/706-5...0001&campid=5338413729&icep_item=271972448497

to heat a separate water tank (an older 10gal corny keg). I wanted to keep my chilling and heating separate by building a manifold with solenoid valves and 2 pumps. My plan is to submerge a small diameter hex coil I acquired thru the top of the corny keg, (it just fits thru the opening) and pump glycol thru it (the hex coil). The tank will be filled with water heated by the heat strip, and temp controlled with the thermostat.
Haven't put the pieces together yet but hope to soon, and future plans will be to add more fermenters to justify the cost of heating/cooling them.

 

[Vale71]

It would be best to use separate circuits for cooling and heating. There are bacteria that can digest glycol and if not held in check will require a fluid replacement ($$$). As long as the glycol is kept at operating temperature bacteria will have a hard time infecting it, if you start actually heating it up to a (for the bacteria) very comfortable temperature you risk disaster. For the heating circuit it's best to use just plain water (preferably softened or RO) which can be replaced often at almost no cost.
The downside would be that you'd need to purge the circuit every time you switch from cooling to heating and vice versa in order not to dilute the glycol reservoir.

 

[Tom R]

OK, it sounds like separate reservoirs are required.

My thought was by having the same tank heated or cooled as necessary I wouldn't need to be concerned about the transition between the two as the garage started warming up into the seventies this summer.

But maybe that's overthinking the issue, it's not like I am brewing every month, and I can just determine, according to the season, whether to choose heating or cooling. Probably less overshooting this way, too?

Thanks for the great info, much appreciated!

 

[Vale71]

That would be ideal but hygiene could really become an issue really quickly. You could get away with it by adding a suitable antiseptic to the glycol mixture, but since the possibility of an internal leak cannot be ruled out 100% it would have to be safe for humans. Peracetic is a good candidate but it's not always available in an homebrew setting and since it's not stable it would need to be topped up periodically, making the whole setup harder to maintain.

 

[Tom R]

Would star san or idaphor work as an antiseptic in the glycol?

 

[Vale71]

Iodophor definitely.

 

[Tom R]

So the current plan:
1. Use a single reservoir
2. with an iodophor/distilled water/glycol mix,
3. cool with a 5K BTU A/C
4. heat with a water heater element
5. control with a STC-1000, using an outboard relay for the element if necessary

I am concerned that the heating and cooling will tend to overshoot and cycle continuously, but maybe the STC-1000 can be programmed to deal with that?

 

[Vale71]

Not really, you'd need a more sophisticated controller for that. To be 100% sure that your controller won't start "ping-ponging" you should use a manual switch to select either "cooling" or "heating" exclusively, depending on what you need in the current fermentation phase.
If you really want to cooling and heating to be readily available then you definitely need separate reservoirs. It really doesn't make sense to alternately cool and heat up the same reservoir, it's too energy and time consuming.

 

[Tom R]

OK then, perhaps I'll start with one reservoir, and a switch to select heat/cool mode.

If we kept the house warmer, I'd just move the conical from the unheated garage into the back room. Then I'd just need cooling. But we heat mostly with wood, and I'm stingy with the stuff.

 

[Brewers Hardware]

I'm now the owner of a 15G Brewers Hardware jacketed conical!

Hope it serves you well for many years to come!

Lots of great info in this thread. Others have already mentioned it, but we also normally recommend adding an aquarium heater to the glycol bath to provide a heat source during the winter. Most people tend to not need to be able to heat and cool at the same time with fermentation being exothermic, and the insulation on our fermentors is pretty beefy.

 

[augiedoggy]

I have a jacketed SS Brewtech Brew Bucket fermenter and I just use a fermwrap. Works like a champ.

wait when did brewtech start making jacketed fermenters? all ive seen are the ones with the internal coils?

 

[augiedoggy]

Not really, you'd need a more sophisticated controller for that. To be 100% sure that your controller won't start "ping-ponging" you should use a manual switch to select either "cooling" or "heating" exclusively, depending on what you need in the current fermentation phase.
If you really want to cooling and heating to be readily available then you definitely need separate reservoirs. It really doesn't make sense to alternately cool and heat up the same reservoir, it's too energy and time consuming.

no need for the manual switch.. you just need a buffer or off set of say 2 degrees or a specific time delay of say 5 minutes before the heating or cooling will kick on to let temps stabilize. all these settings are available in even an stc1000.
I used 4 stc1000 units with alpha omegas custom firmware before swapping them all out for brucontrol which has graphs and can use scripts for temp profiles. I currently use heater wrap wrapped around my conicals and gycol for cooling though.

same at the brewery though i am concerned with how we are going to accomplish both with real stainless jacketed conicals.. currently we have plastic conicals. the jacket will make it hard to heat with heating strips or at least make it slower to reacy which isnt terrible... I will have to experiment.

 

[Vale71]

With the STC1000 units I use you can't set a differential buffer. If you set an offset of say 0.5°C and the chiller starts cooling and then you have an undershoot of 0,6°C the heater will immediately start heating. If you then have an overshoot of 0,6°C the chiller will start cooling and besides wasting a lot of energy you'll end up with more tear and wear than you would care for. There is a protection period of maximum 10 minutes but only for the cooling function and if the overshoot does not correct itself by then you risk the chiller turning on prematurely at the end of said grace period. There is no grace period at all for heating.
BTW in all my years I've never really felt the need to automatically switch between heating and cooling. Depending on the season and on whether you're fermenting at ale or lager temps you'll usually only need either heating or cooling and can configure accordingly beforehand.

 

[kevin58]

wait when did brewtech start making jacketed fermenters? all ive seen are the ones with the internal coils?

I interpreted "jacketed" as being one of those neoprene covers. Guess I was wrong.

 

[Vale71]

That "jacket" looks more like a leotard to me...

 

[augiedoggy]

I interpreted "jacketed" as being one of those neoprene covers. Guess I was wrong.

Yeah jackets is a stainless jacket around the tank designed for coolant to flow through to cool the contents.. it's basically the superior method to stainless coils immersed in the tank. Way easier to clean and also has the advantage of insulation the contents but manufacturing

 

[augiedoggy]

With the STC1000 units I use you can't set a differential buffer. If you set an offset of say 0.5°C and the chiller starts cooling and then you have an undershoot of 0,6°C the heater will immediately start heating. If you then have an overshoot of 0,6°C the chiller will start cooling and besides wasting a lot of energy you'll end up with more tear and wear than you would care for. There is a protection period of maximum 10 minutes but only for the cooling function and if the overshoot does not correct itself by then you risk the chiller turning on prematurely at the end of said grace period. There is no grace period at all for heating.
BTW in all my years I've never really felt the need to automatically switch between heating and cooling. Depending on the season and on whether you're fermenting at ale or lager temps you'll usually only need either heating or cooling and can configure accordingly beforehand.

I set an offset of 1 degree on my stc1000 units even when using stock units and found that maintained the temp perfectly fine alternating between the heat wrap and cooling wrap , or jacket or coil depending on which conical it was and had no problems with overshooting either way. I'm sure some setups are different and if the heating of cooling is too powerful or more than adequate for the task it could be an issue but I had none. I Still dont with brucontrol. I do implement a 360 second delay for both heating and cooling on both my brucontrol setups but I do not have any issue with the heating and cooling fighting each other. If I did I would see it in my history graphs.

Just pointing out it does work for some and it is possible without overshooting.

 

[cfrazier77]

One thing to consider is that glycol does not have to be used for the coolant liquid if it is never chilled to freezing or below. I never take my chiller to below 34 degrees and just use RO water. I have never had an issue when heating it with an submersible aquarium heater.

 

[MarkMarine]

I know this is a year old, but I have a similar fermenter and the way I solved this was a reptile heating infrared "bulb" (though it puts out no visible light) pointed right at the point where the moveable dip tube goes in. This area doesn't have as much insulation and it actually works in practice. I run multiple fermenters in my system so I can't warm up the glycol.

 

[Punjom]

I have the Brew Hardware 20 gal jacket and use this:

https://www.amazon.com/Weekend-Brew...rds=Fermentation+heater&qid=1581974777&sr=8-4

I tape it on the side and also have a light to warm the bottom. I put insulation around the sides and cover with a blanket. It’s easier in warmer weather with the chiller but this works well. BTW make sure to set your chiller no more than 2deg lower than target. Otherwise you will overshot the cold and take longer to heat up the jacket before heating up the wort.

 

[TLaffey]

View attachment 667006 I have the Brew Hardware 20 gal jacket and use this:

https://www.amazon.com/Weekend-Brew...rds=Fermentation+heater&qid=1581974777&sr=8-4

I tape it on the side and also have a light to warm the bottom. I put insulation around the sides and cover with a blanket. It’s easier in warmer weather with the chiller but this works well. BTW make sure to set your chiller no more than 2deg lower than target. Otherwise you will overshot the cold and take longer to heat up the jacket before heating up the wort.

I have a chiller on order and thinking of doing something like this (fermwrap and styro insulation) for the winter months. I'm wondering how cold the surrounding environment can be and still maintain fermenation temps of ~68*F with this setup. Night-time temps in the 30's will be here soon.

 

[augiedoggy]

I have a chiller on order and thinking of doing something like this (fermwrap and styro insulation) for the winter months. I'm wondering how cold the surrounding environment can be and still maintain fermenation temps of ~68*F with this setup. Night-time temps in the 30's will be here soon.

ideally you want to apply the heat to the cone area where there isnt a jacket to get the most effective heating. the heat will rise and churn the wort/beer as it heats. The larger 3.5bbl jacketed fermenters I just bought for myu brewpub use dual jacketed zones. the hot water jacket area is over the cone area. You would be suprized what a small powered heater wrap can do... For my 13 gallon stainless conicals at home I use a 24vdc silicone heater strip thats only 1" by 38" long I dont remember hot many watts it is but think of a water bed heater type output you can touch and keep your hand on... it heats my conicals well.
At the pub I used a section of gutter heat cord to prevent freezing in gutters and downspouts... I wrapped it around my old plastic conicals.

 

[TLaffey]

ideally you want to apply the heat to the cone area where there isnt a jacket to get the most effective heating. the heat will rise and churn the wort/beer as it heats. The larger 3.5bbl jacketed fermenters I just bought for myu brewpub use dual jacketed zones. the hot water jacket area is over the cone area. You would be suprized what a small powered heater wrap can do... For my 13 gallon stainless conicals at home I use a 24vdc silicone heater strip thats only 1" by 38" long I dont remember hot many watts it is but think of a water bed heater type output you can touch and keep your hand on... it heats my conicals well.
At the pub I used a section of gutter heat cord to prevent freezing in gutters and downspouts... I wrapped it around my old plastic conicals.

Thanks, sounds like a small heater will be plenty. I have a thermawrap now, but that’s getting worn, so I might try a carboy heating mat.