How to determine simple sugar percentage correctly?

[Miraculix]

Good morning fellow brewers,

I recently stumbled about a question I couldn't answer confidently.

If we say "let's include 10% of the fermentables as simple sugars", what do we actually mean?

Do we mean, 10% of the weight of the total ingredients, malts, grains and everything, or to we actually mean 10% of the actual fermentables?

The latter would be far harder to calculate, as we don't know for sure how much of the fermentables in the grains will actually end up in the wort.

But if we just do it by weight, the ratio between simple sugars and malt based sugars will shift according to the extraction efficiency, as the simple sugar addition will be utilised 100%, no matter what, but the grain or malt based sugars will depend on the extraction efficiency. This means that if we have low extraction efficiency, we will bump up the amount of grain used to get to the desired amount of sugars, but at the same time, we will increase the weight of the simple sugar addition, as it is based on weight.

So how are you guys dealing with that?

 

[VikeMan]

I believe that when most people say "10% sucrose," they mean it as a percentage of total weight. I also think that's bad, for the reasons you stated. IMO, the only way around this is to ask what someone means when they say it, and if they mean "by weight," then...

- Ask them what their mash efficiency is
- Compute the amount of sugar that hits "X" percent by weight at that mash efficiency and OG target
- Use that exact amount of sugar and scale the mashed ingredients to hit the total OG target at your own mash efficiency

ETA: Or, if you are talking about someone's specific recipe, just find out their sugar weight per batch and jump to the third step above.

 

[Miraculix]

I believe that when most people say "10% sucrose," they mean it as a percentage of total weight. I also think that's bad, for the reasons you stated. IMO, the only way around this is to ask what someone means when they say it, and if they mean "by weight," then...

- Ask them what their mash efficiency is
- Compute the amount of sugar that hits "X" percent by weight at that mash efficiency and OG target
- Use that exact amount of sugar and scale the mashed ingredients to hit the total OG target at your own mash efficiency

ETA: Or, if you are talking about someone's specific recipe, just find out their sugar weight per batch and jump to the third step above.

Glad you got the point. I was already wondering if I was not explaining it the right way.

I wasn't talking about a specific recipe, I just stumbled about this question when calculating my last brew. The brewer's friend calculator was only using percentage by weight, which is not accurate for stated reasons, and I was wondering what could be done instead.

Fun fact was, I could instantly see the amount of points it added to the og, which was obviously far more, then the percentage by weight, almost twice as much.

Well, at the end it's about the result, so if the ten percent inverted sugar by weight turn into a decent beer, I guess I can live with the mathematical inaccuracy.