How to deal with hop debris in a hoppy DIPA

[chato]

I'm trying to figure out what to do to deal with hop debris in an upcoming extremely hoppy DIPA batch that I'm designing. I'm planning to use a total of 12 oz of pellet hops in the boil and hop stand, plus another 6 oz dry hopping. I want to get 6 gallons of wort into my 6.5 gallon better bottle. I also don't want to lose 2 gallons of the 6 to trub, so I'd like to try to get some of the hop debris out while moving the wort from the brew kettle to the fermenter. And I don't like using hop bags as they sort of negate the purpose of using so much hops, although I think I will use a bag for the bittering charge. My current plan is to brew a larger batch, maybe 7 or 7.5 gallons so that I can leave a gallon or 1.5 gallons of sludge in the brew kettle. The transfer options I'm considering are:

1.) Extend the hopstand for maybe 90 minutes to give the hop debris time to drop to the bottom of the brew kettle then siphon off the top. I use an IC and I typically take it out for the hopstand, but for this to work I'd need to leave it in so as not to disturb the settled sludge.
2.) Use some tight-mesh bags on the siphon end when transferring the wort.
3.) Pour it all in

I think if I use method 3 I'll end up with a huge trub layer and lose ~2 gallons of the 6 to trub. I've tried method 2 and it's doable, but a huge PITA, especially with a really hoppy batch. So I'm leaning towards method 1, but worried about the possibility of infection and that all those hops will still be suspended in the wort and I'll still end up losing a lot of beer to trub.

Any advice on how to deal with this much hop debris? Would an extended hopstand risk infection as the temperature drops over the 90 minutes? Should I just write it off and expect to get an expensive 4 gallon batch?

 

[justenoughforme]

with that much added to your beer, no matter what you do there's going to be a LOT of trub. part of why IPA styles are so much more expensive.

out of curiosity, what hops are you using ? 12 ounces sounds like a lot to my inexperienced ears.

what IBU's are you aiming for ?

 

[Thanks_Yeasties]

Just did a Galaxy DIPA with similar amounts of hops and I did use bags in the boil, then dumped it all in the the fermenting bucket. I dont believe using hop bags really limits the hops in anyway, but i also make sure to move them around often during the boil to help get more wort moving through the bags. As you're emptying the kettle you can keep the bags suspended and draining all the wort they soak up back into your kettle so that helps "save" some of the lost volume.

Maybe a combo of these plus increasing the batch size by a half-3/4 gallons would get you to where you want to be.

 

[flars]

I pour from the BK through a large fine mesh grain bag into the fermentor. The bag is over a large funnel with a built in strainer. When I harvest the yeast, from a five gallon batch, there is very little evidence of hop material in the yeast.
The bag does begin to clog. Lifting the corner of the bag gets better drainage through the side of the bag. With the amount of hops you are planning, having two bags ready to go would work the best. The strainer in the funnel sometimes also clogs. Sanitized fingers take care of that.

My wife helps hold the bag as I pour. The system would work better if the bag was sewn into a cone shape to promote better drainage through the sides as the bottom filled with hops. Less chance then of slopping over the side of the funnel. Maybe some day I'll get the sewing machine out and get that done.

edit: I'll have about 6 ounces left over in the BK from a boil that had 3 ounces of hops.

 

[Gibberoni]

Here is what I do for all my super hoppy beers: I made a hop spider just for transferring. Just get a PVC pipe reducer, some lug bolts, a paint strainer and a ring clamp. You can get all of it for $5 at Lowes/HD and lasts forever. I then sanitize a bucket, put the spider on top of the bucket, pour the beer through that and let it strain. Dump the spider out when its done dripping. Pour the wort back into the BK and do it again. This not only aerates the wort, but strains it twice.

You can then do a whirlpool and siphon it out. Produces VERY clear wort into the fermenter. And its quite aerated.

 

[hezagenius]

Another option similar to @Gibberoni is to first transfer the wort through a mesh bag into a sanitized bucket. Then transfer that to the fermenter. You can use one of those strainers with extending handles to suspend the strainer with the mesh bag over the bucket. Dump the wort through this. You can use a spoon to stir the hop sludge in the bag to get out a little more wort. Then transfer to your BB. You can use a 2nd mesh bag for that transfer since the first straining won't catch everything.

That bag of sludge will be heavy so you probably don't want to hold it. Let the strainer with extending arms take the weight while you focus on pouring.

 

[chato]

with that much added to your beer, no matter what you do there's going to be a LOT of trub. part of why IPA styles are so much more expensive.

out of curiosity, what hops are you using ? 12 ounces sounds like a lot to my inexperienced ears.

what IBU's are you aiming for ?

The current iteration of the recipe has Azacca, Lemon Drop, Kohatu and Mosaic, plus I'm undecided right now on the bittering hop (maybe warrior).

Using 1 oz of Warrior at 60 min, with all my late hop additions and hopstand, BrewCipher spread sheet shows the IBUs at 73 - and ABV is 8.3 - so shouldn't be too bitter.

 

[justenoughforme]

okay ... now i'm thirsty

 

[Psylocide]

with that much added to your beer, no matter what you do there's going to be a LOT of trub. part of why IPA styles are so much more expensive.

out of curiosity, what hops are you using ? 12 ounces sounds like a lot to my inexperienced ears.

what IBU's are you aiming for ?

For a DIPA, 12 oz (or quite a bit more) is going to be fine.

Remember, IBUs are just one part. I wouldn't dry hop a DIPA with any less than 4 oz, so there's a big chunk. Add 6-8 oz late in the boil or hopstand and you're there without even taking the bittering hops into consideration.

 

[Toga]

A sanitized paint strainer bag added to the fermentation bucket is what many use. I use a stainless steel food strainer that will sit on top of my bucket. I pour through it and stop when the strainer is full, empty, then repeat till I get all the wort in. The strainer also helps aerate

 

[chato]

Here is what I do for all my super hoppy beers: I made a hop spider just for transferring. Just get a PVC pipe reducer, some lug bolts, a paint strainer and a ring clamp. You can get all of it for $5 at Lowes/HD and lasts forever. I then sanitize a bucket, put the spider on top of the bucket, pour the beer through that and let it strain. Dump the spider out when its done dripping. Pour the wort back into the BK and do it again. This not only aerates the wort, but strains it twice.

You can then do a whirlpool and siphon it out. Produces VERY clear wort into the fermenter. And its quite aerated.

Do you do this with chilled wort? Or while it's still hot, then chill afterwards? If cool, any infections?

I have a hop spider that I built but don't use due to my preference for not using hop bags during the boil. But I've found that paint strainers don't really contain very much hop debris - you need a finer mesh. I could use the spider with a fine-mesh bag. That bag will get HEAVY, so might have to swap it out or the spider will likely break.

Another option similar to @Gibberoni is to first transfer the wort through a mesh bag into a sanitized bucket. Then transfer that to the fermenter. You can use one of those strainers with extending handles to suspend the strainer with the mesh bag over the bucket. Dump the wort through this. You can use a spoon to stir the hop sludge in the bag to get out a little more wort. Then transfer to your BB. You can use a 2nd mesh bag for that transfer since the first straining won't catch everything.

That bag of sludge will be heavy so you probably don't want to hold it. Let the strainer with extending arms take the weight while you focus on pouring.

Sounds like almost the same suggestion. I might have to explore this.

What about the 90 minute hopstand? Would that be enough time for the debris to sink to the bottom so I can siphon off the top and not have to deal with strainer bags at all?

 

[hezagenius]

Everything that is going to settle out will settle in 90 minutes. If you scale up your recipe in order to get enough wort that you can leave the trub behind, you should be fine. You can do a whirlpool to try to get as much trub to the center and then siphon from the side of the boil kettle. I also have put a mesh bag on the outlet tube of the autosiphon to both collect material that made it through the siphon and also aerate the wort as it goes into the fermenter.

 

[Gibberoni]

Do you do this with chilled wort? Or while it's still hot, then chill afterwards? If cool, any infections?

I have a hop spider that I built but don't use due to my preference for not using hop bags during the boil. But I've found that paint strainers don't really contain very much hop debris - you need a finer mesh. I could use the spider with a fine-mesh bag. That bag will get HEAVY, so might have to swap it out or the spider will likely break.

I do it after it has cooled down and done a first whirlpool. I have a megapot 1.2 with a valve on the bottom after a whirlpool, much of the trub has gone to the middle. I have yet to get an infection. I also forgot to note that I sanitize everything, generally leaving the hop spider in my sanitizer bucket till I am ready.

You will be surprised how much it will catch! Once it starts to build up trub, it grows exponentially!

 

[Natdavis777]

A hop spider will allow you to use pellet hops and keep almost all the material out of the final product (with exception to dry hops). There are DIY spiders or SS spiders for sell. I invested in a SS spider and my last IPA had 9oz of hops and all that was left at the bottom of the kettle was break material when it was fully drained.

 

[imasickboy]

I want to get 6 gallons of wort into my 6.5 gallon better bottle.

Better Bottle doesn't make a 6.5 gallon version. Only 3, 5, and 6. Add the fact that it's a DIPA, and you're going to lose a huge amount to blowoff if you try to put 6 gallons in a 6 gallon primary.

 

[chato]

Better Bottle doesn't make a 6.5 gallon version. Only 3, 5, and 6. Add the fact that it's a DIPA, and you're going to lose a huge amount to blowoff if you try to put 6 gallons in a 6 gallon primary.

Good catch. It's actually a 'Big Mouth Bubbler', which has a 6.5 gallon model. My last batch was right at the 6 gallon mark and it only blew off for 1/2 a day or so, although it was a pale ale and was fermented pretty low. With trub loss, I bottled 58 12 oz bottles.

 

[The_Gerbil_Brewer]

Couple thoughts on your situation:

1. I use an IC as well and do hop stands. After I've gotten the temp down to pitching temp I take out the IC and whirlpool for 5 minutes and then let settle for another 5 min (lid on of coures). I use a pump with a tangential port, but I'm sure a vigorous stir with a sanitized SS spoon will have the same effect. I've found with hoppy beers it does a good job of gettting the hop sludge to the bottom. Because of the volume of the trub/hop debris I do end up leaving more in the kettle so you'll probably want to plan on your final kettle volume to be an extra half gallon or so more than your non hoppy beers.

2. The above method worked extremely well for me but I still got more trub in my fermenter than desired (typically a half gallon if I calculated my volumes/boil off correctly), so I started using a hop spider. I feel the large paint strainer bag gives the hop pellets more exposure to the wort. Just tapped a session IPA that I made with the spider and it's tasting plenty hoppy. If you plan on doing a lot of heavily hopped beers you may want to look to use a hop spider and increase your hop bill to compensate for it. It may take a couple batches to get the system adjustments sorted but once you do you'll have a consistent, painless way to get 6 gallons of clear hoppy wort into your fermenter.