Saison How Rye I Am (Rye Saison) - 2011 - 1st Place Best of Show - HBT Comp

[pricelessbrewing]

Fermentation seems to have slowed down, there's still yeast rafts. OG was 1.061, did not use the sugar, as my efficiency was rather high. FG is around 1.007-1.006. Should I warm it up, or let cold crash it and keg?

 

[55x11]

Thanks for the recipe. My first time brewing Saison. Funny as the first time I tried a Saison a year or so back I did NOT like it (too funky and sour). Now I love it.

I used White Labs French Saison yeast, WLP590. Otherwise stuck to the recipe pretty much. Even used Dark Candi Sugar (mostly for color) even though I am sure regular sugar would work just fine.

I have about 5 home-brews in bottles now and Saison is my hands-down favorite!
Mashed at 152F. 75F-78F temperatures during fermentation, deliberately trying to keep it warm.
Starting gravity is 1.060, ended pretty dry at 1.004 in two weeks.

Amazing aroma and taste. Down to my last case and need to brew it again, soon.

 

[TheOrlandoGuy]

Here's my partial recipe:

5 Gallons

5 lbs Pilsner DME 66.7%
2 lbs Rye Malt 26.7%
0.5 lb Turbinado Sugar 6.7%

1.5 oz Styrian Goldings @ 60 mins

WYeast 3711 French Saison (1L starter)

Mash rye malts @ 152 for 60 mins, 1.8qt/lb

I use BIAB for mashing, so no need for rice hulls. What does everyone think?

Just saying thanks again to OP for posting this recipe! I tried this yesterday for the first time, and I am blown away! Perfectly balanced Saison with a great amount Rye spiciness and "Saison" funk. Love it.

For any other partial mashers out there, the modified PM recipe I used above worked very well for me.

 

[ShaLaH]

I brewed a 3 Gallon AG batch of this last night.
I was hoping for an OG of 1.056 but ended up with 1.046 I have a feeling the crush is to blame for this since I ordered crushed grains from a new supplier. So instead of a 7% ABV this will most likely be more of a session ale. Also, next time I think I'll use Dark Candi Sugar for a darker color. Mine turned out pretty light and has a greenish tint because of the hops.

Thanks!

3 Gallon All Grain Recipe:

6 lbs Belgian Pilsner Malt
2 lbs Rye Malt
1/3 lb of Rice Hulls
.5 oz Clover Honey at 15 mins
1 oz Styrian Goldings at 60 mins
Wyeast 3711 (1 Liter Starter)
Fermenting @ 71 degrees F

 

[Adirondack47]

I'm looking to brew this recipe up this weekend with a few changes to help clean out some hops that I have left in the freezer from this past winter's hop buy.

1) Without having to read through all 40 pages, does anyone have a 5 Gallon AG recipe available for this?

2) Would East Kent Golding's be an acceptable substitute for the hop bill here? Possibly thinking of even using an ounce of Nelson Sauvin to dry hop the batch as i've had very good luck using Nelson with Saison's and 3711 Yeast.

 

[55x11]

I'm looking to brew this recipe up this weekend with a few changes to help clean out some hops that I have left in the freezer from this past winter's hop buy.

1) Without having to read through all 40 pages, does anyone have a 5 Gallon AG recipe available for this?

2) Would East Kent Golding's be an acceptable substitute for the hop bill here? Possibly thinking of even using an ounce of Nelson Sauvin to dry hop the batch as i've had very good luck using Nelson with Saison's and 3711 Yeast.

What I did:

12 lbs of Belgian Pilsner
3 lbs Rye Malt
1 lbs Candi Sugar
2 oz Fugle (60min)
1 oz Centennial at flameout.
French Saison WLP590 (French Saison Ale Yeast, 73-80% attenuation, 69-75F Fermentation, 5-10% Alc. Tolerance)
Mashed at 152F for 90min

EKG is probably ok substitute for Fugles as bittering hop. I see some charts say Fuggle can be substituted for EKG, so vice versa must be ok too.

 

[ShaLaH]

I just racked mine to the Keg last night. My OG was lower than I wanted at 1.048 but FG went all the way down to 1.002 - dang that Wyeast 3711 did its job. Should be ready to drink in about a week.

:rockin:

 

[RussPDX]

Just made this and it finished at 1.003. It is delicious but more of a Belgian Pale than a Saison. Lots of bubblegum Belgian ester notes. Anyone else find this?

 

[m00ps]

Just made this and it finished at 1.003. It is delicious but more of a Belgian Pale than a Saison. Lots of bubblegum Belgian ester notes. Anyone else find this?

From 3711? Thats odd. Ive gotten a lot of bubblegum flavors from WLP566 and WY3726, but never 3711. What temp did you ferment it at?

 

[RussPDX]

Chamber was set at 20.4 C. Stc controller so just ambient control.

 

[skunkfunk]

Thinking about using a few pounds of corn sugar instead of candi sugar since I have several bags on hand, and using a pound or so of midnight wheat to match the color. Stupid? I hate to alter too much an award winning recipe, but it would seem that the yeast and rye make this recipe more than anything else, from the looks of it.

 

[m00ps]

Thinking about using a few pounds of corn sugar instead of candi sugar since I have several bags on hand, and using a pound or so of midnight wheat to match the color. Stupid? I hate to alter too much an award winning recipe, but it would seem that the yeast and rye make this recipe more than anything else, from the looks of it.

I wouldnt bother with the midnight wheat. The colors not important and any flavor contribution from it would be out of place. Just corn sugar will work fine and will actually let the saison yeast be more expressive since it wont have the rasiny flavors from the dark candi syrup.

 

[skunkfunk]

I wouldnt bother with the midnight wheat. The colors not important and any flavor contribution from it would be out of place. Just corn sugar will work fine and will actually let the saison yeast be more expressive since it wont have the rasiny flavors from the dark candi syrup.

I'd heard rumor that the midnight wheat doesn't have much flavor, but I do think you're right that any roastiness would taste wrong. Yep, you talked me out of it, corn sugar it is.

 

[RussPDX]

Scored 36 (although 2 judges gave 38's) with this recipe

 

[ShaLaH]

Scored 36 (although 2 judges gave 38's) with this recipe

Nice Job!

I made the OP's recipe scaled down to a 3 Gallon version - I used Honey instead of Candi Sugar.

Mine came out decent but not great. I found mine tastes a little thin, needs a touch more body with absolutely no yeast taste. All the Saisons I've tasted have a yeast presence in them. My batch came out super dry and too clean, there were no citrusy notes or yeast. Perhaps I'll use Wyeast 3726 (Farmhouse Ale yeast) next time and use a different hop to get some citrus notes in there.

Any suggestions are welcome.

 

[RussPDX]

What temp did you ferment at? I had plenty of yeasty goodness. Almost to the point fo a Belgian pale but after a few weeks in the keg in settled into saison territory. I would agree a touch thin, I might up the rye a touch or try some oats or a higher mash temp.

 

[ShaLaH]

I fermented at 71* for 3 weeks, 69* for 1 week, 67* for 1 week. I made a 1 Liter starter which should be more than enough for a 3 Gallon batch. I believe I pitched the yeast when the wort was about 71*, I oxygenated it using a stone for about 30 seconds.

I'd definitely add some Oats to it next time, good call.

 

[Borneogoat]

After reading through this long thread, I note that most people made high gravity brews resulting in >7% ABV beers. Also, most people primary fermented 4-5wks.

I have only one fermenter currently and was hoping for a quicker turnaround. Are the long'ish ferments due to the higher OG's or yeast 3711's behavior or something else? Considering the fast & high attenuation of 3711, could I ferment something sessionable (4-5%) in 2wks @ 71F?

 

[bolus14]

Just speaking from my experience with 3711, and 566 supposedly the same strain, they have hit FG in 7-10 days, add a week or so for the yeast to cleanup then a week + for bottle carbing, 3-4 weeks is doable but tight.

If your kegging it gives you a little more leeway, but I've comes to believe that a lot of beers can be drinkable in 3-4 weeks, but I like to give most of mine around 7-8 before drinking. Usually 3-6 weeks for fermenting then 2-3 weeks for bottle carbing and conditioning.

 

[skunkfunk]

You can get away with 2 weeks in my experience, but it's a crap shoot. Sometimes this yeast takes its time churning through the last few points.

I've not experienced 566 to be anything at all like this strain.

 

[theferalkid]

Looking forward to brewing this Saison!! A variety is always good!!

 

[m00ps]

You can get away with 2 weeks in my experience, but it's a crap shoot. Sometimes this yeast takes its time churning through the last few points.

I've not experienced 566 to be anything at all like this strain.

Yeah, they are pretty different. 566 is supposedly a separate isolate from Dupont and 3711 I believe is from Brassier Thierez (sp?).

566 I usually get some bubblegum and a bit of hefe-like flavors from. Not too much citrus in its fruit character. Bit of spice

3711 is higher attenuating, drops clearer, and has only a hint of spice. Its mostly all just lemony zip

I geek out about both of them a bunch here
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=542346

 

[RussPDX]

After reading through this long thread, I note that most people made high gravity brews resulting in >7% ABV beers. Also, most people primary fermented 4-5wks.

I have only one fermenter currently and was hoping for a quicker turnaround. Are the long'ish ferments due to the higher OG's or yeast 3711's behavior or something else? Considering the fast & high attenuation of 3711, could I ferment something sessionable (4-5%) in 2wks @ 71F?

I only left it in primary for maybe 2 weeks (I dont have my notes on me), but no found thatbitbreally developed in the keg over the next few weeks. If you want to free up your primary just rack to a keg or bottle and condition for a few weeks. There will be plenty of yeast in suspension to keep working amd you wont tie up your primary.

 

[usurpers26]

You may have over pitched causing almost no ester production...3711 is ridiculously full of esters, combined with the rye malt it gives it a huge silky-ness in the mouthfeel.

I fermented at 71* for 3 weeks, 69* for 1 week, 67* for 1 week. I made a 1 Liter starter which should be more than enough for a 3 Gallon batch. I believe I pitched the yeast when the wort was about 71*, I oxygenated it using a stone for about 30 seconds.

I'd definitely add some Oats to it next time, good call.

 

[usurpers26]

Kinda funny but we have not changed this recipe (outside of using whatever hops we have on hand for balance) since the home brew days, 3711 has always taken its sweet time finishing. Even now at 7/15bbl it takes a solid 2 weeks before we crash and harvest. We consistently have this beer ready in 4 weeks in all its funky glory

You can get away with 2 weeks in my experience, but it's a crap shoot. Sometimes this yeast takes its time churning through the last few points.

I've not experienced 566 to be anything at all like this strain.

 

[usurpers26]

Just an FYI - over the who knows how many times we have brewed this we have never gotten any bubblegum notes. How was your pitch rate?

We have also played around - mostly on the higher end - with 3711, fermenting upwards of 82-84* and that started producing some crazy apricot/mango notes. We still regularly ferment this at 71-72* FWIW.

Just made this and it finished at 1.003. It is delicious but more of a Belgian Pale than a Saison. Lots of bubblegum Belgian ester notes. Anyone else find this?

 

[skunkfunk]

Wait, you're not a homebrewer?

 

[usurpers26]

Back in 2011 we were

We made the jump into opening our own place sometime in late 2012, officially opening in March 2014.

Wait, you're not a homebrewer?

 

[ShaLaH]

You may have over pitched causing almost no ester production...3711 is ridiculously full of esters, combined with the rye malt it gives it a huge silky-ness in the mouthfeel.

Hmmmm... I hadn't thought of that. The mrmalty calculator recommended a 1-Liter Starter. However, I did miss my OG by 10 points - 1.046 instead of 1.056. Plugging in my real OG of 1.046 instead of the 1.056 I was shooting for, the mrmalty calculator says that no starter is needed, just 1 pack of yeast. Interesting that an OG of 1.048 requires no starter but an OG of 1.049 requires a 1-Liter starter.

Perhaps this is the problem, but it seems like I was close enough to require a starter - 1.046 - 1.049 is only a .003 difference. If I had made a 2 Liter starter then I would've clearly over pitched, but I feel like I was close enough.

 

[RussPDX]

I used two smack packs in a little over a liter starter to underpitch a bit.