Saison How Rye I Am (Rye Saison) - 2011 - 1st Place Best of Show - HBT Comp

[stru]

My girlfriend actually makes all of the candi syrups I use in my beers. She says it's quite easy and always does a wonderful job.

 

[m00ps]

Had the first glass(es) of this last night... yum! It has a sweetness to it thou that I can't figure out, with such a low SG and all. It's very tasty, I was just not expecting it and doesn't understand it...

Anyone with a better understanding able to explain it to me?

The belgian yeasts can make very fruity esters that come off as sweet because whenever your taste buds sense something like apple or pear, it always comes with sugars. I've found your mind will add in the sweetness from the perception of fruity flavors. Some tripels are seemingly almost cloyingly sweet despite having a much lower FG than a sweet stout

 

[ickmund]

The belgian yeasts can make very fruity esters that come off as sweet because whenever your taste buds sense something like apple or pear, it always comes with sugars. I've found your mind will add in the sweetness from the perception of fruity flavors. Some tripels are seemingly almost cloyingly sweet despite having a much lower FG than a sweet stout

Huh, interesting! I need to tackle another pint and really concentrate on the flavors I guess... tough work indeed.

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

the problem is that in Italy i can't find the liquid candi syrups

now i found a German website that sells it! the next time i'll buy it!

You can also buy the premium candi syrups in Holland:

http://www.brouwmarkt.nl/bier-brouwen/brouw-suikers/candi-syrup.html

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

Brewing this (or a version of it anyway...) for the final round of a knockout competition. I ordered the D-90, but really wavered back and forth between that and the D-180. Candi Syrup.

Anyone have pics and some notes on either version? I know multiple people have used each, but there really hasn't been any follow up on the beers after they are fermented and carbed.

Should be a cool beer to brew. I don't do much rye, but this one sounds really intriguing.

We used the D-180 in this saison. It just seems like a good pairing to have a rye and a very dark flavorful coffee-toffee pairing. It is exceptional.

 

[orangehero]

I've seen this with a number of different Lovibond designations, (260, 275, 300L). It's basically sucrose with dye in it...and not a lot of color or flavor contribution. The liquid candi syrups or cassonades are a much better bet, (Amber or D-45, Dark or D-90, extra Dark or D-180).

What exactly is cassonade?

This recipe is actually great with any kind of sugar. Honey at flameout makes an excellent saison as well. It's all about the yeast and rye combo here.

 

[m00ps]

What exactly is cassonade?

This recipe is actually great with any kind of sugar. Honey at flameout makes an excellent saison as well. It's all about the yeast and rye combo here.

Agreed. Last rye saison I made I just used cane sugar and it was better than one I did with Candi syrup. Dries it out more. The pepperyness of the rye and the saison yeast is just astounding

 

[Nico93]

You can also buy the premium candi syrups in Holland:

http://www.brouwmarkt.nl/bier-brouwen/brouw-suikers/candi-syrup.html

thanks a lot, shipments are much cheaper!

 

[user 197168]

So I jumped on and brewed this one up a week ago. It is summer here in Sydney so the fermenter has been sitting in my chest freezer dialed down to 22 degrees C (71 fahrenheit). So far it tastes amazing and it is now down to 1.006 after one week.

Now, my question, as this beer is taking up valuable cold space in my freezer, how long do you think I need to leave it in there? The air temp in my cellar is about 26C or 78F. Do you think after another week, once the bulk of the fermentation is complete, it would hurt to let it sit in the ambient for a few weeks?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Aa760]

If you used the 3711, or just about any other saison yeast for that matter, you should pull it out and let the temp ramp up. 78 is a good temp and that should help the yeast finish and give some of the characteristic saison-y funk we love so much. From what I understand about the farmhouse style, warm fermentation temps are the norm. I have done this recipe twice, and both times, ramped temp to the high 70's with great results!

 

[user 197168]

Great stuff!! Thanks Aa760! I was hoping this would be the case, but thought I'd try to follow the original recipe as much as possible. Pulling it now works for me though! I'm going to rack it and put this -

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f71/cottage-house-saison-254684/

on the yeast cake (or most of it).

 

[JustLooking]

This beer won Best of Show and placed 1st in Cat. 16 for the 2011 HBT Competition.

Was this beer entered as a Saison (16C) or a Belgian Specialty Beer (16E)?

 

[toast26]

I ended up using the D-90 syrup. It made a really nice beer. Next time, I think I'll go either with the 180 or with straight sugar. This is a really solid recipe. Can't really go wrong with the sugar choice.

 

[Nico93]

drinking one now!

awesome!

 

[najohns]

How would you feel about a complex brown sugar, like muscovado in this one?

 

[mclamb6]

Has anyone done some late addition hops with this recipe (a la the Mad Fermentationist's Hoppy French Saison)? I brewed it last year and loved it. Was looking for a couple of tiny tweaks...

 

[serum]

I'm down to my last few bottles of my orginal batch of this, which i brewed last summer so I'll be getting another batch on this week.

I switched the candi sugar for honey and added 200g crystal 60L for colour on that brew. This time round I've managed to get some flaked rye from a health food shop which I'm going to use instead of rye malt and I'm going with some lighter crystal malt plus some dark muscovado sugar.

I also have some Thiriez yeast which I've grown from dregs so I'll use that too. Should be a belter!

 

[Aa760]

Has anyone done some late addition hops with this recipe (a la the Mad Fermentationist's Hoppy French Saison)? I brewed it last year and loved it. Was looking for a couple of tiny tweaks...

Yes. I did a light version of this (regular sugar in lieu of dark), used 3 lbs rye malt and 1 lb of flaked rye, and did sorachi ace for the late hop additions. I believe I added a steep of them as well. It was great! I did the original version as well, also great, but I think I preferred the lighter, sorachi ace hopped version. Its in my line up for spring brewing!

 

[bolus14]

Does the D180 add any flavor? Seems like most of the posts lean towards it mainly being used for color? If it's just providing color then why not use a malt that mainly provides color, like Dehusked Carafa I or II? Seems like a much cheaper approach. If you're just getting a small amount of dark fruit then you could also throw in a combo of crystal malts and Special B.

Another thing I've been reading about is adding the syrup earlier in the boil, either at 60 min or 45 to get some maillard reaction. Some are saying this is giving more flavor that adding late boil or in secondary, but I haven't found much that's conclusive on this front.

I also thought adding a small amount, maybe 4oz, of roasted barley would be good to give it a slight amount of roast in the finish, this could also be done by using Black Prinz or Midnight Wheat which would also provide the color if the answer to my first question is the syrup being used mainly for color.

 

[m00ps]

The d180 definitely gives a nice toffee/rasininy flavor that is best preserved if you add it cold side.

I've made a few black saisons and I've experimented around with different dark malts. I've found 1lb of midnight wheat can get just about anything pitch black. It's my go-to for black IPAs, swartzbiers, etc. My last black saison used 0.5 midnight wheat and 1lb of d180 and turned out nice

 

[danthebugman]

I made a 3 gallon batch of this and added about 2.5 lbs of cranberries to it. Came out really tasty. I may start using this as a base Saison recipe for experimenting with!

 

[DaveDiedDancing]

I am brewing this today with a few changes. I am subbing out the candy sugar for Honey and added some late additions of Sorachi Ace and Nelson Sauvin. I'm excited!

 

[TheOrlandoGuy]

Sorry, if anyone has posted a partial mash recipe already...I made it to about page 24 before I gave up and clicked to "last." I'm trying to stick to OP's recipe as close as possible, only subbing dark candi sugar for lighter, turbinado sugar as a lot of the first people to brew this in 2011 seemed to have done.

Here's my partial recipe:

5 Gallons

5 lbs Pilsner DME 66.7%
2 lbs Rye Malt 26.7%
0.5 lb Turbinado Sugar 6.7%

1.5 oz Styrian Goldings @ 60 mins

WYeast 3711 French Saison (1L starter)

Mash rye malts @ 152 for 60 mins, 1.8qt/lb

I use BIAB for mashing, so no need for rice hulls. What does everyone think?

 

[Setesh]

This recipe is excellent! This is the first time I've used rye in a Saison and it is delicious. A little bit of rye bite to accent the crisp dry finish is perfect.
Thanks for sharing this!

 

[serum]

I did my second batch of this yesterday and gave Dupont yeast a first try, hopefully I'll not have any stalling.

I lowered the ABV a little to 5.5% as I want something a bit less heavy than all the others I've made lately and I've increased the bitterness a little to around 30 IBU. For a 23 litre batch I used

3kg pilsner
1kg pale rye malt
500g flaked rye

20g bobek (6.3% AA)
20g celeia (4.8% AA)

350g dark candi sugar

The first batch was great but I subbed the candi sugar for honey and added a little crystal malt. I'm expecting this one to be better.

 

[pricelessbrewing]

Brewed it up earlier today, 5 gal batch. Forgot to add the candi sugar, haven't pitched yeast yet. My OG was high anyways though, should I add it anyways or skip it? 2/3 Lb is only going to add about 4 gravity points and I'm at 1.061 already.

 

[TheOrlandoGuy]

Brewed it up earlier today, 5 gal batch. Forgot to add the candi sugar, haven't pitched yeast yet. My OG was high anyways though, should I add it anyways or skip it? 2/3 Lb is only going to add about 4 gravity points and I'm at 1.061 already.

OP said he added candi sugar for the color mostly, so I'd say it's up to how you want it to look. If it's already at target gravity, I'd personally let it go to ensure it reaches the very dry FG that helps make that "saison" crispness.

 

[pricelessbrewing]

Thanks. One more question, I ran it through BS2 and brewers friend recipe calculator and both of them show an expected FG of 1.010-1.011. I know that's not really true, as it's a popular recipe and saisons always finish much lower than that but is it just because the "estimated attenuation" shows 80% and not what it actually is?

 

[bolus14]

Yea. Most Saisons yeasts in my experience get closer to 90-95% if you give them enough time and the right temps.

 

[DocDriza]

When using the Candi sugar, was this boiled, or used at high Krausen?