How Much Money Is There To Be Saved?

[StittsvilleJames]

You know, you could probably re-purpose all your equipment from other sources, and not really spend anyting on equipment.

The only thing I think you would need to buy special, would be a hydrometer.
What else would you really need:
fermenter - hit up restaurants for used food grade buckets. Fryer oil, for example, comes in large buckets, and is easy to clean with soap and water.
airlock - any hose and glass of water would work as an airlock.
racking tube/cane - beer line hose costs a few cents a foot, buy a few feet, and you can rack / bottle.
boil kettle - I use my canning pot. It holds 3 gallons, so I'm not doing full boils, but you don't need to do full boils.
thermometer - cheap, easy to find.
sanitizer - bleach. not ideal, but it would work. Alternatively, tons of other sanitizers at the grocery store for kitchen item usage.
bottles - ask restaurants and bars. Alot of them will sell them to you for cheap, if they don't just give them away. (especially if you're a good patron!)

I think if you wanted to do all this on the cheap, you could get away with spending less than 10$ on equipment, and all you would then need is your ingredients.

Than, once you have a few batces under your belt for cheap, you buy a carboy. Few batches more, you buy a bottling wand. etc etc.

The hobby is only as expensive as you want it to be, and you could save money starting on beer #1 if you really wanted to.

 

[oldtrucker]

Most of you aren't being just about the cost. The op is talking bmc. I brew extract only. I don't brew because I like to. I brew to save money. You can brew a comparable beer to bmc for less. For instance, Muntons Caniadian draught is total cost of roughly $25 for 6 gallons. That's close to $1 Qt. That's a shade over $.03 an ounce or $.36 a 12 ounce beer. Less than $2.50 a 6 pak. The Muntons is a better beer to me than bmc. If I couldn't save money, I wouldn't be brewing and I've been brewing for 7 years. I've settled on doing business with Austin Homebrew supply almost exclusively. They enable me to make good beer at a reasonable price. I uderstand if one uses the boil in bag method that all grain brewing is much cheaper.

Old Trucker

 

[Vuarra]

Beer Geek Alert- No way that is a 1A. No way. It's not a lager unless it's lager yeast (a different species than ale yeast completely), and no EKG and Nottingham. EKG and nottingham will make an English bitter. But certainly not an American Lager! But I bet it's a darn fine bitter.

Okay... you caught me making a mistake. I used Nottingham, and the temperature is around 18*C, so this makes a light ale, not a lager. Mea culpa.

Other than that... I wish I had space to be able to store and mill grain to buy bulk.

 

[o4_srt]

Most of you aren't being just about the cost. The op is talking bmc. I brew extract only. I don't brew because I like to. I brew to save money. You can brew a comparable beer to bmc for less. For instance, Muntons Caniadian draught is total cost of roughly $25 for 6 gallons. That's close to $1 Qt. That's a shade over $.03 an ounce or $.36 a 12 ounce beer. Less than $2.50 a 6 pak. The Muntons is a better beer to me than bmc. If I couldn't save money, I wouldn't be brewing and I've been brewing for 7 years. I've settled on doing business with Austin Homebrew supply almost exclusively. They enable me to make good beer at a reasonable price. I uderstand if one uses the boil in bag method that all grain brewing is much cheaper.

Old Trucker

Actually, we are figuring out total cost, involving supplies, equipment, etc.

You only included the cost in ingredients. When figuring out cost only considering ingredients, yes, it's cheaper. Add in labor, equipment, materials, it's nowhere close. If you're only considering ingredients, you are lying to yourself.

Ex: if I came to work on a sat morning and worked the same amount of time it took to brew 2 cases of beer, and stopped on the way home and picked up two cases, I would be ahead. A similar methodology should be used when determining if you should paint a room or hire someone. It is rather important to know how much ones time is worth.

It costs far more to brew than most realize, however, ignorance is bliss.

 

[Vuarra]

It costs far more to brew than most realize, however, ignorance is bliss.

You are quite right... if I were working overtime for the length of time I were brewing, then I would certainly stop off at my overpriced due to tax LCBO store and get some beers that I really like and still come out ahead.

When I am doing a hobby, though, I find it enjoyable and do not count my time as an expense. That's my choice. I have already paid for my brewing equipment. I'm not an accountant, and I'm not going to amortize my used equipment down to the last penny to find out the true cost of brewing. My bill today was $27.50, including a brewing thermometer that I somehow misplaced.

This sounds bitter, and I don't mean it to be. I love brewing, and would rather brew than get drunk. Actually, drinking has become a chore, rather than a relaxing hobby. Sucky.

 

[chrismcdaniel3128]

My question is what is so hard about brewing a bmc, I threw in some flaked corn, rice extract, extra light dme, wilmaette, ( a whole ounce!), dry lager yeast, fermented cold, 6 weeks later even my "swill" drinking buddies who said they would never touch my home brew were saying how good it was. Maybe it WAS just better,
Man down

 

[o4_srt]

You are quite right... if I were working overtime for the length of time I were brewing, then I would certainly stop off at my overpriced due to tax LCBO store and get some beers that I really like and still come out ahead.

When I am doing a hobby, though, I find it enjoyable and do not count my time as an expense. That's my choice. I have already paid for my brewing equipment. I'm not an accountant, and I'm not going to amortize my used equipment down to the last penny to find out the true cost of brewing. My bill today was $27.50, including a brewing thermometer that I somehow misplaced.

This sounds bitter, and I don't mean it to be. I love brewing, and would rather brew than get drunk. Actually, drinking has become a chore, rather than a relaxing hobby. Sucky.

I'm with you completely. I enjoy brewing far more than drinking in excess. That's why I brew small batches.

But From a purely financial standpoint: homebrewing is usually a loss.

We do it because it's something we enjoy, not because it's cheaper for us to do so.


@Chris: brewing a bmc isn't terribly hard. Brewing thousands of gallons a week with minimal differences between every beer brewed is the hard part. Consistency is the homebrewers curse

 

[Vuarra]

Brewing a BMC itself is not that hard... but doing it consistently batch after batch, year after year, is a nightmare that gives me cold sweats. I can't even get a standardized recipe to taste the same after brewing it once.

 

[Yooper]

My question is what is so hard about brewing a bmc, I threw in some flaked corn, rice extract, extra light dme, wilmaette, ( a whole ounce!), dry lager yeast, fermented cold, 6 weeks later even my "swill" drinking buddies who said they would never touch my home brew were saying how good it was. Maybe it WAS just better,
Man down

That would really surprise me. I'm not a Miller Light fan but I must say they do it brilliantly. No off-flavors, no cloudiness, and it's always the same. I don't want to doubt someone, but saying you "threw" in some corn, rice extract, and dry lager yeast and came up with a superior product surprises me. If you can indeed beat BMC at their own game, you are sitting on a million dollars.

I make some very nice beers. I've made some wonderful American lagers, and some German lagers. No way can I beat BMC. You're probably more skilled than I am, because I can't do it, especially not at their price.

 

[chrismcdaniel3128]

Definitely not saying I'm more skilled, then anyone, still have a lot to learn, put my bmc clone in a glass you can definitely see a difference, it's just I found it really simple to make something remarkably similar with such little effort. It wasn't really thrown together I just took what I learned from this forum and put it to use.

I'm sure I'll try it again and eat my words. It may just be the fact that it's something I've made that turned out better then expected, and my buddies liked it, sorry to come out as a braggart

 

[Vuarra]

Don't let us get to you... if you like it, then you've done very good. Be proud. I'm still looking for the recipe that I'll drink for the rest of time

 

[chrismcdaniel3128]

When you find it..........

 

[Vuarra]

When I find it, my next hurdle will be how to continue making it the exact same way, time after time.

When that happens, I'm applying to Molson Coors to become a Brewmaster... if I can do it with 5 gallons....

 

[atgunning]

You only really save money making barleywines, imperial stouts and other "bigger" beers. A good imperial stout starts around $6 for a 22oz bottle, and goes up from there. The cost for a 5 gallon batch of imperial stout is around $35-$50 depending on ingredients, which makes 29 of those 22oz bottles.

You dont save money trying to clone Sam Adams, etc.

 

[donjr721]

Just do it. i can brew a batch for about 28$, 5-6 gallons. my problem is when i go pick up my ingredients, i usually end up buying extra yeast, sanitizer, etc. but it's definately worth it, great beer and great learning experience. also a good feeling when someone has one of your brews and tells you thats f****** awesome man! i love it!

 

[stevedasleeve]

My brewdays are in the $20-30 range per 5 gallons for damn good beer. Far far less than the craft brews around here which range from $8-12/6 pack, and in most cases my beer is better tasting than any of them! I am done buying equipment, I have what I need and have had this rig a year or so unimproved.

In other words, yes, after your initial investment you can make fantastic beer for a fraction of what it costs.

 

[stevedasleeve]

You only really save money making barleywines, imperial stouts and other "bigger" beers. A good imperial stout starts around $6 for a 22oz bottle, and goes up from there. The cost for a 5 gallon batch of imperial stout is around $35-$50 depending on ingredients, which makes 29 of those 22oz bottles.

You dont save money trying to clone Sam Adams, etc.

Your math does not relate at all to me. I brewed a Sierra Nevadaish ale three weeks ago, kegging tomorrow, and my total cost was $17.12 for 5 full gallons in the keg, or about $7.75/case.

 

[stevedasleeve]

Actually, we are figuring out total cost, involving supplies, equipment, etc.

You only included the cost in ingredients. When figuring out cost only considering ingredients, yes, it's cheaper. Add in labor, equipment, materials, it's nowhere close. If you're only considering ingredients, you are lying to yourself.

---

It costs far more to brew than most realize, however, ignorance is bliss.

Labor - really? Do you figure in labor cost for, say, playing soft ball or watching a movie? Do you compute labor for the time you spend making love? How about dinner time - 45 mins is, what $20?

And equipment is a one time deal with a slight bit of maintenance - IMHO and IM experience also.

The rest is ingredients. My last several 5 gallon batches cost me $23.73, $19.89, $21.81, $35.08, $26.68, $30.36, $22.26, $24.01, $21.63, $17.12, $23.67, and $15.06 not in order.

FWIW and YMMV of course and probably does!

Steve

 

[RDWHAHB]

Labor - really? ... Do you compute labor for the time you spend making love?

Why yes; $200/hr is my standard rate.

 

[hts]

One can definitely make all grain light alcohol beers (like bitters, milds, light blond ales) for around $7.00/case. I know. I'm unemployed and as they say necessity is the mother of invention.

 

[FireBrew63]

Do you compute labor for the time you spend making love?

Steve

Man, I'd never get rich if I did that. Let's see 1/20th of an hour at $20 an hour...that's only $2 a week...on a good week!

 

[noggins]

If you're a cheap bastard like myself, and are handy enough to rig this and that together into another thing, you can save a ton of money. Oh, that, and if your father-in-law used to brew beer and still has his old brewing gear in his attic, sees you trying to make "wine" in used gallon milk jugs, and gives it all to you...I've saved a crap load of money by making simple beers, starting with coopers kits, and moving ever so slowly towards all-grain. It also helps if you get kits and HBS gift certificates for bday/xmas presents every year for five years...man, I really have saved a lot of money considering how much my friends and I drink.

 

[dfc]

No, you need to compare brewing vs whatever you would have done with the time. For a lot of people that is not thumb-twiddling. If you view brewing as easy work, you should be just as happy to get a part time job at Burger King for the same hours, and you'll be ahead financially for it.

Think about it this way, if I ask your wife if your brewing has saved your household money what will she say? I mean when she stops laughing?

I view brewing as easy work and I make at least double what I would if I were working at Burger King.

 

[o4_srt]

Labor - really? Do you figure in labor cost for, say, playing soft ball or watching a movie? Do you compute labor for the time you spend making love? How about dinner time - 45 mins is, what $20?

And equipment is a one time deal with a slight bit of maintenance - IMHO and IM experience also.

The rest is ingredients. My last several 5 gallon batches cost me $23.73, $19.89, $21.81, $35.08, $26.68, $30.36, $22.26, $24.01, $21.63, $17.12, $23.67, and $15.06 not in order.

FWIW and YMMV of course and probably does!

Steve

When looking at something from an economic (financial) standpoint, yes, labor must be included. If it costs you more time and money to prepare a meal at home than it would to purchase it, you're losing money by preparing it yourself. However, one must realize that in order for this to work, one must be making more money during that time period than they are spending.

You'll learn this in any basic college level economics class, in my case that was last semester.

The reason I keep doing it, knowing that my money could be put to better use, is because it's something I enjoy. There is plenty of ot available at my employer, but I'd rather brew. Smartest financial decision? No. But the satisfaction brewing gives makes up for the money lost.

Caveat: if you are unable to objectively view a subject, perhaps it's best not to examine it to begin with.

 

[KevinM]

Opportunity costs eh?

Well, outside of opportunity cost, I've already spent far more on brewing equipment and supplies in half a year, than ever I've spent beer and wine and spirits for a decade.

 

[JasonToews]

if I minus all the brewing equipment, the amount of stouts alone i've made has saved me tons of money! Guinness averages $14 a 4 pack here in canada. I make 5 gallons of stout for $25!! It's also very drinkable. Now with brewing equipment, well maybe after awhile, yes you will save alot of money. I used to spend an average of $40-$60 every 2 weeks on beer and coolers for my wife and I. I really dont like the cheap stuff ie "bud,miller etc. So in my mind I am saving money.

 

[o4_srt]

Opportunity costs eh?

Well, outside of opportunity cost, I've already spent far more on brewing equipment and supplies in half a year, than ever I've spent beer and wine and spirits for a decade.

Seems like someone knows where I'm coming from...

And I thought I'd never use anything I learned in microecon again as an electrical engineer....

 

[oldtrucker]

A truckdriver is paid by miles with no time and half. For me that's about $24 hr. Half hour to brew half hour to bottle. that's still about $5 a 6-pak. that's competitive.

Old Trucker

 

[ODI3]

Beer is expensive up here in canada. Getting beer below 1$ a bottle is unheard of. Discount brands are generally 1.10 a bottle.

To compare, bud or blue on sale is about 29.99 for 24 bottles. The standard price is about about $35.



EDIT: oh ya, +14% tax

 

[malweth]

When looking at something from an economic (financial) standpoint, yes, labor must be included. If it costs you more time and money to prepare a meal at home than it would to purchase it, you're losing money by preparing it yourself. However, one must realize that in order for this to work, one must be making more money during that time period than they are spending.

You'll learn this in any basic college level economics class, in my case that was last semester.

Again, this is true only if you would be working during that time. If you've set aside that time as free and decide to brew beer you do not include labor. You cannot calculate your own opportunity cost for all events. There are very few people who have the opportunity to work 168 hour weeks.

Even if you are someone who could work a full week (seven 24 hour days) you need to calculate the intangible gains. How much is sleeping worth to you? What monetary gain do you get for taking your mind off business and brewing? If such things increase your efficiency when you DO work (and they certainly do) they have some unknown monetary value. If you stop sleeping in favor of working, how long does it take before you lose your job?

This economic problem can be approximated by figuring that there is zero opportunity cost for free-time activities.