How long does an ale pail last?

[HillbillyDeluxe]

Most of my primaries are ale pales. My oldest pail has about 10 batches under its bely. I have replaced the spigot once. I sanitize every time. I did get an infection 2 batches ago in a WIT i brewed/ Wasnt bad, drinkable but infected just the same. Thoughts?????

 

[Brooklyn-Brewtality]

I havn't used Ale Pails for a bit (used them, then carboys, now better bottles) but on the last Sunday Session on Brewing Network they talked about Fermentors, and I am not sure who said it, but it was mentioned that with Ale Pails they used them for 8-10 batches, then tossed them.

 

[weirdboy]

I don't like spigots in my primary fermenters. Seems like it dramatically increases the chance of an infection with no tangible benefit, since I rack from the top down anyway to eliminate as much sediment as possible.

I'm not sure how many batches I've done in my ale pail so far, but it's way over 10.

 

[Beerrific]

Wear not age should be your determining factor. If nothing rough ever goes into the bucket and you are not getting infected batches, I do not see any reason to switch it out. If it has scratches in it, replace it.

 

[rico567]

My original Ale Pail has @30 batches, has gotten pretty stained & smelly over that time (cleaned it nice & white once with Oxi-Clean, then it just went back to being stained again, so I gave up on that), but still makes good beer. I certainly can't see any reason to toss one arbitrarily at 10 batches. I clean my ale pail with Dawn dishwashing detergent and a sponge (never anything abrasive), and sanitize with Star San.

 

[homebrewer_99]

The majority of my buckets and "Ale Pails" are over 10 years old. I have yet to replace one.

I do not stack them nor store anything in them that would enable them to get scratched.

Clean up includes an overnight soak and sponged clean.

FWIW, I usually come near or reach my goal of 200 gals per year.

 

[CodeRage]

I've had the same pale for 2 years and haven't had any issues with them.

As for the scratching goes.... I'm not to sure I would worry about it. Some of my pales have casting lines inside mid wort line. For all intents and purposes, they are big scratches. a good soak in hot oxy clean and a scrub, a little star san and good to go.

A thing I noticed about better bottles is the texture on the outside does create dimpling on the inside; especially the bottom. Boo Koo nooks and crannies. If you're anal about your cleaning and sanitizing procedures I don't think there is anything to worry about.

 

[Revvy]

It depends on how you treat them. Like HB-99 said, they can last years if cared for properly, especially if you don't put anything in them or stack them or do anything that can get them scratched.

However I would not use one with a spigot to save my life...there's just too much of a chance for organic matter to get lodged it the spigot if you are using the spigot to drain your fermenter.

THere's a lot more organic biomatter in the trub layer in your fermenter than is in your bottling bucket, and a few people have traced infections to the spigot of their bottling bucket (ask Grinder, I think he found one, but there's at least two pictures of split open spigots where there was a nice rotting piece of hop of other biomatter that the beer would pass through on the way to the bottles.)

Regardless of spigots or not, it's a good idea to run your hand inside your ale pails now and then to make sure their are no scratches....Scratches can be great places for infections to lie in, and like it says on starsan bottles, starsan will not do the job if the area is drity. So if there's gunk in a scratch then even sanitizing will not help it.

 

[david_42]

Years and years, if you take care of them. I still use the original three buckets I purchased 8 years ago. I dismantle the spigots, brush them and soak them in bleach before each use. Once in a while the buckets get bleached. Haven't had an infection since the first year of brewing.

 

[HillbillyDeluxe]

Yeh, i like the spigots. I know that they are an infection waiting to happen but they make moving the beer to secondary very easy. i think i will stat buying carboys for secondaries though.

 

[rico567]

Revvy: "THere's a lot more organic biomatter in the trub layer in your fermenter than is in your bottling bucket, and a few people have traced infections to the spigot of their bottling bucket (ask Grinder, I think he found one, but there's at least two pictures of split open spigots where there was a nice rotting piece of hop of other biomatter that the beer would pass through on the way to the bottles.)"

Yes. The spigot must be disassembled, cleaned & sanitized each time it is used (I'm talking here about the spigot with the red stem/handle that rotates inside the white translucent housing). I do it even though I use it only for bottling. When I first started brewing, I didn't realize the spigot could be taken apart- all my efforts to pull the red stem out were in vain. Then I read a thread where someone said that you could hold the spigot under hot tap water for 5 seconds or so, and it would allow the spigot to be pulled out. This worked, and sure enough- the ten or so batches I'd done had left a ring of crud inside the spigot, where the stem rotates against the housing. I was lucky I didn't get an infected batch....

 

[Grinder12000]

OH man - I have a rule now - ONLY 20 batches then out. I went 32 and then had 4 infections that were narrowed to the pale. (the curse of brewing weekly).

Never anything harsh - always cleaned and it's smooth BUT - SOMETHING got in it some where.

and don't get me started on the Italian spigots with red handles. An infection waiting to happen with those. What a horrible design.

I'm much more spigot anal now!! I wonder if they can be put in the oven at 325 ????

 

[bob1852]

but there's at least two pictures of split open spigots where there was a nice rotting piece of hop of other biomatter that the beer would pass through on the way to the bottles.

or in my case, a live earwig!

 

[Cheaton]

I'm much more spigot anal now!! I wonder if they can be put in the oven at 325 ????

I doubt it, but you can surely disassemble it and put it in your dishwasher on the hot cycle in the silverware rack...

 

[Natron008]

I'd guess 300-500 years if the climate holds steady.

 

[Revvy]

Yes. The spigot must be disassembled, cleaned & sanitized each time it is used (I'm talking here about the spigot with the red stem/handle that rotates inside the white translucent housing). I do it even though I use it only for bottling. When I first started brewing, I didn't realize the spigot could be taken apart- all my efforts to pull the red stem out were in vain. Then I read a thread where someone said that you could hold the spigot under hot tap water for 5 seconds or so, and it would allow the spigot to be pulled out. This worked, and sure enough- the ten or so batches I'd done had left a ring of crud inside the spigot, where the stem rotates against the housing. I was lucky I didn't get an infected batch....

Rico, next time you do that would you takes some pics of you doing it AND the crud inside, that would really be good to show people how to disassemble it and how crud build up in there. I still haven't had the guts to try to do it to mine yet.

or in my case, a live earwig!

 

[rico567]

What I'll do (since I won't be bottling again until mid-November) is put in a couple of pix now, with suitable annotations, although there won't be any crud on display.

The first pic shows the spigot, with only the nut and one of the two included washers removed. The spigot must be run under hot (ours runs around 140F) for 5-10 seconds in order to soften the plastic enough that the red stem may be readily pulled out. Just heat under the running water, and pull straight up on the handle.

{As a parenthetical note, a lot of people seem to have trouble with this spigot because they don't install it correctly. The wall of the bucket goes between the two white rubber washers. I've read posts by people only using one (or no!) washers. And only snug up the nut, it's not necessary to tighten it up with a torque wrench, which some of them seem to favor. It's not a head bolt on a D9 Caterpillar.}

The second pic shows the red stem removed from the white/translucent housing. The major culprit in harboring crud and other infective matter can be easily seen- it is the groove at the top of the stem, which allows the stem to "snap" into the housing. The first time I pulled the stem out, after about 10 batches, this groove was packed with crud. This is not to say that the mating surfaces of the stem and housing cannot harbor bad stuff, even though they are a very tight fit, and won't leak liquid.
Once the two parts of the spigot are separated, it's very easy to rinse out (all I do, immediately after bottling, then hit it with Star San) or soak it in PBW and then rinse if you have stuff packed in the groove. If you have Star San solution on it, it's slippery enough that it makes it pretty easy to push the stem back into place without reheating the housing.

Hope these pictures help; I have no idea why they didn't both appear inline; I don't think I have mastered this site's picture upload utility.

 

[beerocd]

The majority of my buckets and "Ale Pails" are over 10 years old. I have yet to replace one.

I do not stack them nor store anything in them that would enable them to get scratched.

How many buckets, and how are they stored? Almost need to call shenanigans on this one. I haven't had a pail go beyond a year, honestly the way things are these days - maybe the old pails were made better. Or they changed the manufacturing process and now the pails are CR@P. I have an Ale Pail now that is still emitting cascade hop aroma. Not horrible, but I'm concerned with aroma or flavor carryover. I did an overnight soak with oxy, washed, etc. Not to turn this into plastic vs glass vs stainless but the first option will not be part of the brewery going forward. Once the stupid fruit flies around here die and I can brew again.

-OCD

 

[wilserbrewer]

However I would not use one with a spigot to save my life...there's just too much of a chance for organic matter to get lodged it the spigot if you are using the spigot to drain your fermenter.

I'm with Revvy on this one. Sure I'm tempted to go with a spigot, seems like it might save work, but I figure it's more risk of infection, and likely even more work disassembling spigots and cleaning them...screw that.

Give me an old fashioned racking cane and a piece or tubing, I can simply just rinse it well w/ hot water, and hit it w/ star san prior to it's next use. KISS

 

[homebrewer_99]

How many buckets, and how are they stored? Almost need to call shenanigans on this one. I haven't had a pail go beyond a year, honestly the way things are these days - maybe the old pails were made better. Or they changed the manufacturing process and now the pails are CR@P. I have an Ale Pail now that is still emitting cascade hop aroma. Not horrible, but I'm concerned with aroma or flavor carryover. I did an overnight soak with oxy, washed, etc. Not to turn this into plastic vs glass vs stainless but the first option will not be part of the brewery going forward. Once the stupid fruit flies around here die and I can brew again.

-OCD

No shenanigans, lies or exagerations here. I have 4 (active) primaries, another for StarSan and 2 bottling buckets...over 20+ carboys for secondaries, 20+ cornies, and 20 plus cases of German 1/2 liter bottles.

2 primaries plus a bottling bucket are my originals from 1994. The others I purchased (USED) in 2004 or 5.

Sure, mine smell of older brews and have minor discoloration, but that's no reason to get rid of them. If that's all it takes for you to get rid of them I'll offer you $2.00 for each of them.

The trick is not to let them sit after using. You need to clean them right away. An overnight soak and sponge rinse down usually does the trick.

Another thing I've learned is not to dry them upside down, but on their sides. Even the odors decrease that way.

After they are (air) dried (I don't use soap or towels, which also have soap residue, on them) I store them upright side by side and I only set the lids on top of them (not pushed down in place as if in use, just loose). This way the seals aren't being compressed. Since I mentioned seals I have to say I've never replaced one lid seal either. When you clean the lid you should remove the seal and clean it also as well as the groove it/they sit in.

 

[Lynux]

After they are (air) dried (I don't use soap or towels, which also have soap residue, on them) I store them upright side by side and I only set the lids on top of them (not pushed down in place as if in use, just loose). This way the seals aren't being compressed. Since I mentioned seals I have to say I've never replaced one lid seal either. When you clean the lid you should remove the seal and clean it also as well as the groove it/they sit in.

+1 that's exactly what I do. I've been using the same buckets for a couple years with no issue.

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

All that talk about tiny micro scratches is bullcrap in my opinion.

 

[petep1980]

I am a reborn ale pail primary fermenter. I am still on my originals. I have one for wine and one for beer. I don't use my bottling bucket though.

My eyes were opened when I nearly had an whitbread explosion. I now simply place lid on top, I don't press it down and a washclothe over the airlock hole.

 

[kuphish]

How many buckets, and how are they stored? Almost need to call shenanigans on this one. I haven't had a pail go beyond a year, honestly the way things are these days - maybe the old pails were made better. Or they changed the manufacturing process and now the pails are CR@P. I have an Ale Pail now that is still emitting cascade hop aroma. Not horrible, but I'm concerned with aroma or flavor carryover. I did an overnight soak with oxy, washed, etc. Not to turn this into plastic vs glass vs stainless but the first option will not be part of the brewery going forward. Once the stupid fruit flies around here die and I can brew again.

-OCD

I've also had nothing but good luck with my ale pails. Yea, the odor and discoloration is disconcerting at first, but I've never had it effect any of my subsequent batches. Always soak with oxiclean and hot water right after I use them and they clean up beautifully.

 

[chase]

Anyone who says that they are only good for a few batches is lazy, crazy and/or completely unconcerned with the decay rate of plastics.

The only real concern that I know of is the oxygen permeability of plastic fermentors. Even most scratches can be overlooked as long as they are cleaned and sanitized well. I have three buckets that I've used for nearly three years and I've only had one infected batch... and I made it that way.

 

[beerocd]

Anyone who says that they are only good for a few batches is lazy, crazy and/or completely unconcerned with the decay rate of plastics.

Chase: No, probably, and huh? Where was it you lived again?
j/k But you really shouldn't call a crazy person crazy - It irritates 'em!

I was really just curious how many primaries HB99 had since he brews a good bit throughout the year. I knew he had to have a lot of some kinda storage. And if he had a but-load of buckets I wanted to know how storing a bazillion buckets without stacking or storing anything in them would look. I was imagining a spare bedroom with nothing but a single layer of buckets in it.

I got some killer scores off of craigslist and I'd be switching anyway, so everyone just "flame off", please.
(or not and we can go on for 50 pages debating this; but I think it's been done already)


-OCD

 

[beerocd]

All that talk about tiny micro scratches is bullcrap in my opinion.

Bullcrap gets in the scratches.

-OCD

 

[chase]

Chase: No, probably, and huh? Where was it you lived again?
j/k But you really shouldn't call a crazy person crazy - It irritates 'em!

I only speak in a sarcastic manner, so sometimes I forget that the sarcasm doesn't come across in text.

I'm not trying to flame. I just think that people forget how scale factors into all this. When I look at a scratch in a bucket, I don't see a place for bacteria to hide. I think that most people don't have any understanding of the size of bacteria, water molecules and their size relative to the visible scratches in the plastic bucket. Not to mention the inherent porosity of the plastic.

My thinking goes something like this:
"Oh, there's a scratch. I should keep my eye on it. Make sure there is no visible junk in it and keep note of whether or not an infection develops. As long as I sanitize well, it shouldn't be an issue."

 

[homebrewer_99]

...I was really just curious how many primaries HB99 had since he brews a good bit throughout the year. I knew he had to have a lot of some kinda storage. And if he had a but-load of buckets I wanted to know how storing a bazillion buckets without stacking or storing anything in them would look. I was imagining a spare bedroom with nothing but a single layer of buckets in it. ...

HAHA!!! I don't have any brewing equipment upstairs in the main house. I have about 1500 SF on each floor. The basement is basically "my world". I have a theater room down there and an office too. We usually have all the family (about 30) over for the holidays and almost everyone stays in the basement...at the same time.

No, I don't stack one bucket inside another, but I do have a buttload of brewing equipment in my storage room.

I have a walk out basement with my own (brewing) kitchen and a storage room with floor to ceiling shelves. I have 2 stainless steel medical-type cabinets for the smaller pieces of brewing equipment in the kitchen area as well as a shelf for 3 boil pots.

On the storage room (about a 9X9 room) shelves I have about 75 beer mugs, over 100+ bottles of meads and ciders, 40+ lbs of honey, my buckets, misc stuff. My wife has several shelves of canned veggies from the garden, etc.

I also have a cabinet (for more glasses and several more boxes of beer mugs from Germany, with another one in another storage closet which is larger also houses the Christmas decoration and other stored items, basically, my wife's storage room ), a stand up freezer, 4 carboys (in milk crates (I lay them on their side and stack the crates), 18 (stackable) cases of German 1/2 liter bottles, a dolly with 3 55# boxes of DME, a small dolly with a 50# box of Corn Sugar, and a couple more cases of empty wine bottles.

And, yes, I can wheel out the dolly's without moving anything around.

In the garage I have a keezer, my MLT and Water coolers, a Son of Ferment Chiller and over 15 carboys...plus 2 cars, several built-in closets, a couple (3) wall units I built, a lawn tractor and trailer...yes, the garage is that big.

To some it may looked like a mess, but I prefer to call it "organized chaos" since I know where everything is located.

 

[JVD_X]

Pails do not last forever. In fact here are some pictures of cracks that formed on the inside of one of my buckets. If I hadn't brewed wine in this bucket I would never have discovered the cracks.

This bucket was used 4 times.

It is this style.

 

[bob1852]

you've got to remember though - homebrewer_99 was brewing LONG before plastic was invented. I think he first fermented in rock carboys (just giving you a little crap hb99)

 

[homebrewer_99]

you've got to remember though - homebrewer_99 was brewing LONG before plastic was invented. I think he first fermented in rock carboys (just giving you a little crap hb99)

You're right, me, Fred Flintstone and Barney Rubble carved them ourselves...



Very intriguing pictures. I've never seen cracks like that in anyone's buckets. How old are they? And yes, I'm sure mine will give up the ghost eventually also.

I would contact the manufacturer to let them know they have a QA/QC problem. Could be the result of substandard workmanship/materieals.

Have you ever accidentally banged them when they were full?

 

[Mountainbeers]

Has anybody had any problems with the spigots leaking? I went to transfer to my Ale Pail with a spigot for bottling a few days ago and I started having a leak around the outside of the spigot!!! I transferred what little was moved back to the carboy and just bottled from there. I haven't had time to figure out the problem.

 

[alpha_acid]

the lip of mine cracked so i replaced it

 

[Mountainbeers]

I've only used my Ale Pail twice to the spigot leaking isn't a wear and tear kind of thing.

 

[JVD_X]

You're right, me, Fred Flintstone and Barney Rubble carved them ourselves...



Very intriguing pictures. I've never seen cracks like that in anyone's buckets. How old are they? And yes, I'm sure mine will give up the ghost eventually also.

I would contact the manufacturer to let them know they have a QA/QC problem. Could be the result of substandard workmanship/materieals.

Have you ever accidentally banged them when they were full?

I have been through two more buckets after this one until I decided not to buy those buckets anymore. They don't get banged around anymore than the usual.

That particular bucket was MAYBE 2-3 months old. The same for the others. I have not noted any issues with my 5 gallon buckets, so this may very well be a QC issue.

I've only used my Ale Pail twice to the spigot leaking isn't a wear and tear kind of thing.

Do you mean it was leaking around the edge where the spigot attaches to the bucket? If so, you might have stuck the seal on the outside instead of the inside - a common mistake.

 

[Kass_Brauhaus]

Yeah, I definitely don't buy buckets with spigots anymore--it's just so damn hard to get a good seal. And yes, it's very possible, and I'm sure one can get a technique down for tightening just enough but not enough to crack the nut, but it's hard.

This is why I struck a deal with the wife--I will buy her a TIG welder and the materials...I'll even cut them...if she'll build me a 20 gallon conical fermenter.

 

[chefmike]

I am glad HB99 posted his usage and David42 and some of the others. I bought my current pale 5 years ago. No issues.

I love my bucket. It loves me.

I only use carboys for space to age beers (like clearing the pumpkin ale right now, ageing ciders, etc) I ferment everything in buckets. I don't have spigots on any of my buckets.

 

[Mountainbeers]

Do you mean it was leaking around the edge where the spigot attaches to the bucket? If so, you might have stuck the seal on the outside instead of the inside - a common mistake.

I'm not sure but I'll check when I get home.

 

[homebrewer_99]

I am glad HB99 posted his usage and David42 and some of the others. I bought my current pale 5 years ago. No issues.

I love my bucket. It loves me.

I only use carboys for space to age beers (like clearing the pumpkin ale right now, ageing ciders, etc) I ferment everything in buckets. I don't have spigots on any of my buckets.

You're welcome.

Yes, mine do get used all the time.

I currently have 8 brews going right now. Only 1 is in a primary bucket. The others are 1 carboy for beer, the rest are ciders and meads.