How long do YOU boil ?

[Tobor_8thMan]

See, this is the crux of it. I think (though I don't presume to talk for) RPh is answering the question with a Socratic response (another question). At least I infer from his post that he is implying that "it takes as long as it takes." Or at least it should. But we humans are creatures of habit and too often succumb to inertia at the expense of reason. I'm as guilty as the next brewer. Yep, when I first started out I obeyed the mantra, "60 minutes for ales, 90 minutes for lagers." Got to drive off that DMS, don't ya' know. Out of laziness or complacency I finally gravitated to 75 minutes for both, figuring my boil-off volumes would be the same while not altering my lagers and maybe improving my ales.

But increasingly after reading and studying different fact-based observations and conclusions (not Brulosophy 'exbeeraments') I'm gradually coming to the belief that boil time is only a factor in hop utilization, and a "vigorous boil" for whatever length of time is actually a very bad thing for the flavor and stability of beers. By increasing my bittering hops by about 20% I can shorten my boil time to about 30 minutes (from 75). At least that's a rough number I get when I plug those numbers into BeerSmith using some past recipes. If true in the 'real world' of brewing, it begs the question RPh asked:

"What happens during the boil and how long do each of those processes take?"

Once you answer that question you'll have answered your original question. Then add to that, "And not one minute more."

Brooo Brother

Thoughtful input and great explanation. However, I do know, in my own experience, once I began the 60/90 mantra, depending on the malt, my brews have significantly improved. I guess, to each his own...

 

[RPh_Guy]

Why before gelatinization?

Alpha and beta amylase activity is the real "meat and potatoes" of the mash. Their action is affected by pH and it only starts once gelatinization occurs.

 

[stevehaun]

Alpha and beta amylase activity is the real "meat and potatoes" of the mash. Their action is affected by pH and it only starts once gelatinization occurs.

I thought you were implying that pH should be corrected before gelatinization occurs. This would require doughing in under gelatinization temp then raising to main mash temp. Unless you have the ability to step mash, this approach is not possible. In single infusion mashing, one really needs to have mash pH dialed in based on your water, malt analysis, and acid additions because you are doughing in above gelatinization temp.

 

[RPh_Guy]

I thought you were implying that pH should be corrected before gelatinization occurs. This would require doughing in under gelatinization temp then raising to main mash temp. Unless you have the ability to step mash, this approach is not possible. In single infusion mashing, one really needs to have mash pH dialed in based on your water, malt analysis, and acid additions because you are doughing in above gelatinization temp.

If you dough in above gel temp, you need to include your pH adjustment in your water or grist.

If you dough in under gel temp, you may correct pH during the mash.

In other words either way the pH should be adjusted before gelatinization.

 

[Immocles]

I've been listening to an awful lot of Brulosophy podcasts while in the gym lately and I finally broke down and attempted my version of their short and shoddy experiments. I haven't been able to bring myself to do a 20 minute mash and 20 minute boil but I have been doing a 30 minute mash and 30 minute boil lately with zero negative effects on the finished beer (IMO).

I've been going back and listening to skipped episodes of various podcasts. For whatever reason, I skipped a lot of those short and shoddy ones. I've been tempted to give one a shot now though, and after reading as many folks having success with shorter times, I might start trying to shave 10-15mins off my times as well. I don't mind mashing for a full hour or more, but I hate boiling that long. Even getting that down to 45 mins for non-pilsner malts would brighten my day. I've got a blonde ale coming up eventually. Maybe that will be the time to try.

 

[waldoar15]

It depends. I adjust for boil off rate/volume/gravity.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

I boiled for 60 minutes for most of my brewing span...cuz that is what Dave Miller and Charlie Papazian told me to do.

Lately I have been playing around with some 10 or 0 minute boil extract batches. How about that...you can actually get a rather bitter beer with only 10 minutes of boil...and even some bitterness in a beer with only flameout and dry hops. I am not convinced there is much bitterness difference between a 30 min addition and a 60 min addition.

I have lately tried out 30 minute boils for my series of single grain pale ales. The first 3 seemed fine (though the head retention on the 2 bottled ones was non-existent...not sure if the reduced boil could play into that). I just bottled another batch made with Wyermann Floor Malted Bohemian Pils that has the same 30 min boil. I brewed a Dark Mild today with a 30 min boil.

One downside I see is that with a 30 min boil, I don't have that extra 30 minute window to sit around and goof off!

A upside is that the reduced boil off means I have a little more room in my kettle for full volume mashes.